Author Topic: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?  (Read 13472 times)

Offline Older Salt

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 04:07:35 PM »
While the NO was validly promulgated as Mass, it does not express the Catholic Faith that well.

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Offline Older Salt

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2014, 04:09:52 PM »
While obviously less reverent and lacking compared to the TLM, I believe the Ordinary Form (Novus Ordo) is a valid Roman Catholic Mass.

I agree. 

I would like to see the NO abrogated and replaced by the 1965 rite while, at the same time, access to the TLM is improved so that it is a realistic option for most Catholics to attend.
Why even complicate the matter with the 1965 rite?

Just have one Rite throughout the whole world for unity.

The TLM in the Roman Church.
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Offline Older Salt

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2014, 04:12:17 PM »
The TLM had been in use for 1,900 years in the Church, only to be replaced by the Novus Ordo.

not....exactly.
The most important parts of the TLM are that old.
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Offline dueSicilie

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2014, 04:20:13 PM »
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
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Offline Petrie

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 04:26:31 PM »
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.

Exactly. 
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Offline Older Salt

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2014, 04:35:26 PM »
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
So the Church gave us a Mass where the Body and Blood of Christ, the most unbelievable miracle ever on earth after the Resurrection, is not confected?
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2014, 04:39:42 PM »
Would this be a good time to remind everyone that trads ought not use the "Ordinary Form/Extraordinary Form" terminology? No matter what our prelates claim, the two rites are not two versions of the same Mass. We need to weed this mentality out of Catholics' understanding of the Mass(es).
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2014, 04:45:46 PM »
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

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Offline Petrie

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 04:46:01 PM »
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
So the Church gave us a Mass where the Body and Blood of Christ, the most unbelievable miracle ever on earth after the Resurrection, is not confected?

It is interesting to note that none of the approved Eucharistic miracles chosen for this Vatican exhibit occurred in the NO:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm


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Offline Jayne

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 05:07:16 PM »
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

I use it when it is the clearest way to communicate with my audience.  I have no problem using the terminology that Pope Benedict designated for us to use.
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Offline Christknight104

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2014, 05:12:55 PM »
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

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The problem is that the Superior General of the FSSP and various Institute priests have used that term themselves in their sermons.  Can one  say the same about them?
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2014, 05:17:48 PM »
I would argue probably.  It's a filthy, lying phrase.

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Offline bben15

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2014, 06:04:28 PM »
I would argue probably.  It's a filthy, lying phrase.

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"Two equal forms of the Roman Rite."  :rolleyes:
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2014, 06:46:48 PM »
What do you mean by "Roman Catholic Mass"?  That is is promulgated by the Catholic Church?  That it is valid?  That it is adequately congruent and reflective of the Catholic tradition?

Validity and liciety are two different things.

Regardless of its sacramental validity, it is a bastard rite. Holy Mother Church does not give her flock bastard liturgies. Ergo

You hit the nail squarely on the head here, bud.
So the Church gave us a Mass where the Body and Blood of Christ, the most unbelievable miracle ever on earth after the Resurrection, is not confected?

What is so difficult to understand about validity having nothing to do with liceity?
 

Offline VeraeFidei

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Re: Do You Believe The Ordinary Form Is A Roman Catholic Mass ?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2014, 07:51:19 PM »
No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

I use it when it is the clearest way to communicate with my audience.  I have no problem using the terminology that Pope Benedict designated for us to use.
For what it is worth (not that I happen to care), he did no such thing; he merely stated that the Mass and the New Order are the "Extraordinary" and "Ordinary" forms; there is no command in Summorum to adopt the terminology.

No trad worth his salt uses the lying phrase extraordinary form.   

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The problem is that the Superior General of the FSSP and various Institute priests have used that term themselves in their sermons.  Can one  say the same about them?
Yep, this is a tough one. Two ICRSS priests I know regularly use the term "Extraordinary Form," moreso than any other term for the TLM.