Author Topic: Reforming the Irreformable? A priest begins to see the light vis-a-vie the NO  (Read 9356 times)

Offline Older Salt

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Murderous psychos are scary.

A dead language at liturgy is hardly scary.

I'm not saying their feelings are rational, but those feelings are out there and quite common, in my experience.

This is one reason that I have been trying to improve my Latin to a point where I can teach it to others.  In the long term, I see this being of benefit to the Church.  But it took decades to build up this antipathy to Latin and I expect it to need a similar length of time to reverse it.
I am more scared by English than Latin.
The vernacular has led me into a lot of sin.
The Church's language has not.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

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Offline Older Salt

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Best part is, this article has even gotten lots of NO Catholics talking about this, and many of my Novus Ordo friends/acquaintances sympathizing with the Reverend Father's view. The TLM is authentically Catholic, the NO is a human fabrication. The more people that come to realize that, the better things will become, I hope.

Same here.  B16 said as much when he called the NO Mass a "Banal on the spot product".  If something was "on the spot" it can hardly be consistent with Sacred Tradition now can it?

And yet he did nothing to stop it.  It's banal, but we're going to keep using it AND call it the ordinary form.

I think we might find in the years to come that SP will have done much to stop it eventually, particularly when combined with his other teachings on the Mass.  Had he tried to completely legislate the end of the NO, it would have caused so many problems in the Church that multiple schisms might have developed as a result.  Therefore, he gave us SP in the hopes that it would bear the proper fruit in the future.  Don't get me wrong. I am not laboring under the impression that B16 is a traditionalist, but I also think we are just now beginning to see what the meaning and implications of SP will be in the years to come.

I don't know if I agree with you.  I see SP as a way to get those traditionalists on board and keep quiet.  As long as the TLM is "allowed" how many folks will really fight for a complete overhaul?
SP is the only way many people have access to a TLM.

That's my point.  Those that have access can be more complacent and less likely to consider the larger issue and/or make waves.
I believe you missed my point.

Many people will now go back to Mass, whereas they were gone for many years, now that SP has helped in bringing back the Mass.

I fought and wrote letters for many years to my former Ordinary asking and begging him to establish a TLM in our diocese, since no priest on a local level wanted to offer it.
I did this from around 1999 till 2007.

Nothing.

When SP was issued he established, within one year, 5 every Sunday TLMs in the diocese.

I am not saying this is at all ideal, but it brought my Parents and several friend back to the Faith, where all my, and others, years of fighting did squat.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 12:59:49 PM by Older Salt »
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

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Offline Jayne

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There are today more non-religious classical muaic enthusiasts who understand and appreciate the Latin Mass than Catholics. Just think about that for a moment.

That reminds me of a Jewish coworker of mind, who is a real gentleman and scholar and holds my deepest respect. A hobby of his is to sing Palestrina and other Renaissance polyphony with his local choral society. He probably knows more about our Catholic musical patrimony than most practicing Catholics today, simply because he is educated and cares about culture.

This sort of non-Catholic appreciation is what led to the so-called "Agathat Christie Indult".
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Offline Parresia

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« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:11:02 PM by Parresia »
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Peter Kwasniewski of the NLM has an additional article here:
http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/02/clarifications-on-reform-of-reform.html
Clarifications on the Reform of the Reform Controversy
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

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Offline Parresia

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Peter Kwasniewski of the NLM has an additional article here:
http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/02/clarifications-on-reform-of-reform.html
Clarifications on the Reform of the Reform Controversy

Good article overall, but as one viewer already noted, he appears to have said "2" in the Postscript when he meant "1". 

Thanks for that. 

 

Offline Elizabeth

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I'm surprised the NLM ran this article. There was a time not long ago when reform-of-the-reform stuff had about equal coverage with the traditional Mass. They seem to be on the verge of throwing in the towel on that idea now.
Agreed. That being said, it is notable that Fr. Kocik has hardly posted there in years. During Benedict XVI's papacy, he wrote something about how he could only really continue to write about RotR if juridical changes happened. He seemed frustrated at the time, if I recall correctly.

Isn't that how we all began/begin, though?  We move from the common Novus Ordo, rife with abuses and irreverence, to beginning to think we can reform the NO, save the Mass and make everything better?  But then we realize, no one actually wants the NO in Latin and "said properly" (blech).  We realize the hierarchy is A-OK with the way things are, and that, even if we did implement those types of reforms, all we're doing is making the NO look and sound more and more like the TLM.  If we're going to do that, why bother half-assing things with a liturgy constructed in the 1960s?  Why don't we add the prayers at the foot of the altar, the Leonine prayers, custody of the fingers.  Wait, why don't we just go whole hog and go to the TLM?

It can be a long or short process, I think.  It's just a matter of how God wants to bring them around, IMHO.

This is wisdom.  All too often, souls who feel especially blessed or intelligent to have "seen the light" begin fierce attacks upon souls less enlightened.  I've read people calling this "out-tradding" or some such.  It's a snare of the devil, IMO.  Easy to fall for--much more difficult to be wise and charitable.