Author Topic: "Renting" Books  (Read 7546 times)

Offline Penelope

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 6646
  • Thanked: 1588 times
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2014, 03:10:46 PM »
Marking a book makes the book about you.  It makes you something of a co-author.  If you want to note your own thoughts etc., why not use something more suited to that purpose, like a diary?

In one sense, reading a book is about the reader. In order for the book to have served its purpose, the reader must respond to it. I'm failing to understand what is wrong with recording those responses right next to the material itself. One thing that I tell my students is that good readers interact with a text. They don't just read and say, "Welp, that's that." They ask questions as they read, they explain their responses, they mark things that they found humorous, they make connections to their lives and to other literary works and to material from earlier in the text itself. Reading is interactive and being able to interact with a work is not something that most people can just do in their brains and remember it for days or weeks at a time.

It's the same thing that we do when we quote one another on the forum. I place my response adjacent to your ideas so that the context is understandable. I'm not becoming a co-author to your ideas; I'm responding to your ideas and interacting with them. I do the same thing when I respond to a literary work, which is why I write directly in the book.

A good article about this topic (one that I gave to my students earlier this year and one that I think was recommended to me by LouisIX) is Mortimer Adler's "How to Mark a Book."
 

Offline piabee

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Thanked: 446 times
  • flinty prose
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2014, 03:18:34 PM »
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.
 

Offline Lynne

  • happy to be Catholic!
  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9174
  • Thanked: 3929 times
  • We're all special snowflakes
  • Religion: Catholic (SSPX)
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2014, 03:21:35 PM »
Marking a book makes the book about you.  It makes you something of a co-author.  If you want to note your own thoughts etc., why not use something more suited to that purpose, like a diary?

In one sense, reading a book is about the reader. In order for the book to have served its purpose, the reader must respond to it. I'm failing to understand what is wrong with recording those responses right next to the material itself. One thing that I tell my students is that good readers interact with a text. They don't just read and say, "Welp, that's that." They ask questions as they read, they explain their responses, they mark things that they found humorous, they make connections to their lives and to other literary works and to material from earlier in the text itself. Reading is interactive and being able to interact with a work is not something that most people can just do in their brains and remember it for days or weeks at a time.

It's the same thing that we do when we quote one another on the forum. I place my response adjacent to your ideas so that the context is understandable. I'm not becoming a co-author to your ideas; I'm responding to your ideas and interacting with them. I do the same thing when I respond to a literary work, which is why I write directly in the book.

A good article about this topic (one that I gave to my students earlier this year and one that I think was recommended to me by LouisIX) is Mortimer Adler's "How to Mark a Book."

Even though most of my books are bought for the Kindle now, I feel this will be very helpful. (I'll probably send this pdf to my Kindle so I don't lose it).  :)
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline OCLittleFlower

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7747
  • Thanked: 1811 times
  • CALIFORNIA DEPLORABLE
  • Religion: Trad to the max!
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #63 on: January 21, 2014, 03:24:08 PM »
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.

That sounds like babying college students to me.  You graduated high school, you made it to college -- you probably know what note taking style works for you.  And, if you don't, hey, there are ways to figure out new things to try that, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself.
-- currently writing a Trad romance entitled Flirting with Sedevacantism --

Если вы можете прочитать это, вы лучше.
 

Offline Penelope

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 6646
  • Thanked: 1588 times
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2014, 03:33:59 PM »
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.

That sounds like babying college students to me.  You graduated high school, you made it to college -- you probably know what note taking style works for you.  And, if you don't, hey, there are ways to figure out new things to try that, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself.

You overestimate most college (community or otherwise) students. My husband has been teaching college since 2007 and the majority of his students can barely string words together to form a coherent sentence. They have no idea how to read with a purpose ("Isn't skimming enough? I opened the book and looked at the pages. What more is there to it?"). They can't figure it out for themselves and the standards for so many high schools are so low that it doesn't take much to get into college these days.
 

Offline per_passionem_eius

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1201
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Fortitudo et laeticia
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2014, 03:35:28 PM »
I've thought of an exception: play scripts may be marked as long as you're involved in a production.


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

http://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/
 

Offline OCLittleFlower

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7747
  • Thanked: 1811 times
  • CALIFORNIA DEPLORABLE
  • Religion: Trad to the max!
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #66 on: January 21, 2014, 03:37:50 PM »
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.

That sounds like babying college students to me.  You graduated high school, you made it to college -- you probably know what note taking style works for you.  And, if you don't, hey, there are ways to figure out new things to try that, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself.

You overestimate most college (community or otherwise) students. My husband has been teaching college since 2007 and the majority of his students can barely string words together to form a coherent sentence. They have no idea how to read with a purpose ("Isn't skimming enough? I opened the book and looked at the pages. What more is there to it?"). They can't figure it out for themselves and the standards for so many high schools are so low that it doesn't take much to get into college these days.

Eh, they're semi-literate legal adults.  IMO there is no need to try to make them give a darn if they refuse to.  Nor is there any need to make the rest of us sit through the same "this is how we take notes, kids" garbage that we've been hearing since 4th grade.  It's one reason I dropped out, actually -- I was paying to repeat stuff that had been a repeat back in 7th grade, and 9th grade, and 11th grade. 
-- currently writing a Trad romance entitled Flirting with Sedevacantism --

Если вы можете прочитать это, вы лучше.
 

Offline LouisIX

  • Oberstleutnant
  • Hauptmann
  • *****
  • Posts: 8971
  • Thanked: 1418 times
  • "Libtard"-in-Residence
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2014, 04:28:23 PM »
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

But the notepad and paper are extrinsic from the text.  That's the entire point of writing in the margins.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline per_passionem_eius

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1201
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Fortitudo et laeticia
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2014, 04:32:35 PM »
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

But the notepad and paper are extrinsic from the text.  That's the entire point of writing in the margins.

I was waiting for this and I have a clever reply prepared: But what are photocopy machines and scanner for, then?  And scissors and double-sided tape? 


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

http://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/
 

Offline LouisIX

  • Oberstleutnant
  • Hauptmann
  • *****
  • Posts: 8971
  • Thanked: 1418 times
  • "Libtard"-in-Residence
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2014, 05:04:17 PM »
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

But the notepad and paper are extrinsic from the text.  That's the entire point of writing in the margins.

I was waiting for this and I have a clever reply prepared: But what are photocopy machines and scanner for, then?  And scissors and double-sided tape?

Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline per_passionem_eius

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1201
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Fortitudo et laeticia
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2014, 05:06:56 PM »
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

http://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/
 

Offline LouisIX

  • Oberstleutnant
  • Hauptmann
  • *****
  • Posts: 8971
  • Thanked: 1418 times
  • "Libtard"-in-Residence
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2014, 05:10:56 PM »
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline per_passionem_eius

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1201
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Fortitudo et laeticia
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2014, 05:32:22 PM »
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.

Then I presume you no longer mark your books!


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

http://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/
 

Offline LouisIX

  • Oberstleutnant
  • Hauptmann
  • *****
  • Posts: 8971
  • Thanked: 1418 times
  • "Libtard"-in-Residence
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2014, 05:55:11 PM »
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.

Then I presume you no longer mark your books!

Oh, I still mark them.  I mark them all up.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline per_passionem_eius

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1201
  • Thanked: 15 times
  • Fortitudo et laeticia
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: "Renting" Books
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2014, 05:58:11 PM »
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.

Then I presume you no longer mark your books!

Oh, I still mark them.  I mark them all up.

 :crazy2:


Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.

http://fatherfeeney.wordpress.com/