Author Topic: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?  (Read 2538 times)

Offline Pæniteo

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Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« on: January 06, 2013, 02:36:36 PM »
The way I understand it is that "traditional Catholic" means "Catholic" with a strong emphasis on the authentic and timeless teachings of the Church. This term is a reaction to widespread error, especially as reflected in liturgical novelties and abuses.

However, the term often stands on its own, where "tradness" is the measure, rather than "Catholic". Also, there seems to be a distinct sub-culture surrounding it which is "extra" and not part of Catholicism, such as political and cultural tendencies.

The other "big" baggage is the 1950isms, which are a result of it being "pre-Vatican II" and the sanitized media of the day under the Hays Code.

So, do you think that the term "traditional Catholic" has too much baggage?
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 03:48:28 PM »
It has too much baggage.  Unfortunately, a lot of that is due to internal trad-bashing.

But you're correct.  Trad Catholic is sort of a misnomer, or at least redundant.  To be a trad is simply to be authentically Catholic.  When we judge things according to their trad level, all we're really doing is judging them according to orthodoxy.  Perhaps we should be speaking differently, however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 05:02:54 PM »
It has too much baggage.  Unfortunately, a lot of that is due to internal trad-bashing.

But you're correct.  Trad Catholic is sort of a misnomer, or at least redundant.  To be a trad is simply to be authentically Catholic.  When we judge things according to their trad level, all we're really doing is judging them according to orthodoxy.  Perhaps we should be speaking differently, however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.

This.
 

Offline Mithrandylan

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 05:05:23 PM »
It has too much baggage.  Unfortunately, a lot of that is due to internal trad-bashing.

But you're correct.  Trad Catholic is sort of a misnomer, or at least redundant.  To be a trad is simply to be authentically Catholic.  When we judge things according to their trad level, all we're really doing is judging them according to orthodoxy.  Perhaps we should be speaking differently, however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.

Yes.  In fact the term "Catholic" itself only came about because of Christian heresy. 
Ps 135

Quia in humilitáte nostra memor fuit nostri: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Et redémit nos ab inimícis nostris: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Qui dat escam omni carni: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Deo cæli: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.
Confitémini Dómino dominórum: * quóniam in ætérnum misericórdia eius.

For he was mindful of us in our affliction: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
And he redeemed us from our enemies: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Who giveth food to all flesh: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the God of heaven: * for his mercy endureth for ever.
Give glory to the Lord of lords: * for his mercy endureth for ever.

-I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-
 

Offline joe17

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 05:05:48 PM »
 What King Louis said pretty much sums it up.

 Joe
 

Offline CoolCat

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 03:28:09 PM »
It has too much baggage.  Unfortunately, a lot of that is due to internal trad-bashing.

But you're correct.  Trad Catholic is sort of a misnomer, or at least redundant.  To be a trad is simply to be authentically Catholic.  When we judge things according to their trad level, all we're really doing is judging them according to orthodoxy.  Perhaps we should be speaking differently, however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.
You are correct. There is no such thing as a "traditional Catholic".  We are always playing the judge and jury towards other Catholics who do not regularly attend the same Mass that we do.
Now granted, there are "traditionalist" Catholics. If you want a term that defines a particular group of Catholics, that would be appropriate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_Catholic

Offline Pæniteo

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 04:00:35 PM »
It has too much baggage.  Unfortunately, a lot of that is due to internal trad-bashing.

But you're correct.  Trad Catholic is sort of a misnomer, or at least redundant.  To be a trad is simply to be authentically Catholic.  When we judge things according to their trad level, all we're really doing is judging them according to orthodoxy.  Perhaps we should be speaking differently, however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.
You are correct. There is no such thing as a "traditional Catholic".  We are always playing the judge and jury towards other Catholics who do not regularly attend the same Mass that we do.
Now granted, there are "traditionalist" Catholics. If you want a term that defines a particular group of Catholics, that would be appropriate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_Catholic

Does the term "traditionalist Catholic" have too much baggage?

« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 04:03:55 PM by Pæniteo »
 

Offline CoolCat

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 05:01:06 PM »
It has too much baggage.  Unfortunately, a lot of that is due to internal trad-bashing.

But you're correct.  Trad Catholic is sort of a misnomer, or at least redundant.  To be a trad is simply to be authentically Catholic.  When we judge things according to their trad level, all we're really doing is judging them according to orthodoxy.  Perhaps we should be speaking differently, however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.
You are correct. There is no such thing as a "traditional Catholic".  We are always playing the judge and jury towards other Catholics who do not regularly attend the same Mass that we do.
Now granted, there are "traditionalist" Catholics. If you want a term that defines a particular group of Catholics, that would be appropriate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_Catholic

Does the term "traditionalist Catholic" have too much baggage?
Yes it does. Kinda feels derogatory.
TC feel the need to have to explain themselves or answer a plethora of questions from the mainstream Catholics before formalizing a conversation.  Mind you , once the questions are out of the way, they have already labeled the TC as an "extremist", "crypto-sede", "thinks-he-is-better-than-I", "arrogant bastard", "holier-than-thou", "party-pooper", "attention-hog", etc.

To give out an analogy: It's like introducing someone as a "truther" or "birther".
That's it.

 

Offline beagle

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 02:25:36 AM »
The question for me is 'do I care if it does?' I get so tired of hearing the whole 'oh, those traditionalists are mean' jive from conservatives and liberals. The rudest, most unfriendly parish I've been to here is my local Novus Ordo parish. Or check out any number of neo-Catholic blogs at patheos. Everybody's got a subgroup who's mean and rude and goes overboard. Could just as easily wonder if the word 'Catholic' has too much baggage. Or 'Christian' or whatever. When you get down to it, most people are jerks and nothing other than conforming to their standards will change their minds. And I sure ain't doing that.

Best you can do is just try and watch your own behavior and live the best you can. Maybe people will change their opinion; many won't no matter what. To hell with perceptions.
 

Offline Gottmitunsalex

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 02:27:30 AM »
The question for me is 'do I care if it does?' I get so tired of hearing the whole 'oh, those traditionalists are mean' jive from conservatives and liberals. The rudest, most unfriendly parish I've been to here is my local Novus Ordo parish. Or check out any number of neo-Catholic blogs at patheos. Everybody's got a subgroup who's mean and rude and goes overboard. Could just as easily wonder if the word 'Catholic' has too much baggage. Or 'Christian' or whatever. When you get down to it, most people are jerks and nothing other than conforming to their standards will change their minds. And I sure ain't doing that.

Best you can do is just try and watch your own behavior and live the best you can. Maybe people will change their opinion; many won't no matter what. To hell with perceptions.
This.
"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

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Offline Lyubov

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 02:31:41 AM »
however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.

I think this is the main reason that the label sticks. If we identified ourselves merely as "Catholics", the majority of people would assume that we are of the same variety as the various Novus Ordo, charismatic, and wishy-washy "Catholics".
Имя ты мое услышишь
Из под топота копыт.
 

Offline tmw89

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 02:35:28 AM »
The question for me is 'do I care if it does?' I get so tired of hearing the whole 'oh, those traditionalists are mean' jive from conservatives and liberals. The rudest, most unfriendly parish I've been to here is my local Novus Ordo parish. Or check out any number of neo-Catholic blogs at patheos. Everybody's got a subgroup who's mean and rude and goes overboard. Could just as easily wonder if the word 'Catholic' has too much baggage. Or 'Christian' or whatever. When you get down to it, most people are jerks and nothing other than conforming to their standards will change their minds. And I sure ain't doing that.

Best you can do is just try and watch your own behavior and live the best you can. Maybe people will change their opinion; many won't no matter what. To hell with perceptions.
This.

Mostly that, although one must be careful about perceptions viz. scandal.
Quote from: Bishop Williamson
The "promise to respect" as Church law the New Code of Canon Law is to respect a number of supposed laws directly contrary to Church doctrine.

---

http://tradblogs.blogspot.com

NOW OPEN:  A new Trad forum featuring Catholic books, information, and discussion!
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: Does the term "traditional Catholic" have too much baggage?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 04:36:47 PM »
however the emergence of heterodox "versions" of Catholicism make "traditionalism" necessary as a term and label.

I think this is the main reason that the label sticks. If we identified ourselves merely as "Catholics", the majority of people would assume that we are of the same variety as the various Novus Ordo, charismatic, and wishy-washy "Catholics".

Right.  And many of us, including myself, believe that Novus Ordo Catholicism (or what we might call neoCatholicism) is much more dangerous than outright liberal Catholicism.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.