Author Topic: The Secret of Kells  (Read 6738 times)

Offline Adeodatus

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2013, 02:05:20 PM »
FBP, I think you analysis is way off. The most Christian page in the Book of Kells could be said to be the Chi Rho page, because that is the page of the Most Holy Name of Christ. How much more Christian can you get? It was this page that "turns darkness into light" and it so compelling that even the natural world (of which the fairy is representative) becomes a servant to this project. It is something that cannot be destroyed by pagans (the Vikings), it overcomes the evil supernatural (Crom Cruach), and ultimately it restores the faith of a man who had abandoned his yearning for the supernatural end in favor of the purely natural (the Abbot, whose trust is in walls rather than the beauty of Christ).

When I see the Abbot, I see the worldly bishop who suffers from the "edifice complex". He builds great buildings because that is where he puts his trust: the ingenuity of man and the greatness of his works. He does so out of a benevolent motive, but he has lost sight of something that transcends even the suffering of the poor: the impossible beauty of Jesus Christ.

This isn't an EWTN religious ed cartoon, which hits you over the head with religion. But the point of it is very clear to me.
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Offline voxxpopulisuxx

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2013, 08:34:48 PM »
FBP, I think you analysis is way off. The most Christian page in the Book of Kells could be said to be the Chi Rho page, because that is the page of the Most Holy Name of Christ. How much more Christian can you get? It was this page that "turns darkness into light" and it so compelling that even the natural world (of which the fairy is representative) becomes a servant to this project. It is something that cannot be destroyed by pagans (the Vikings), it overcomes the evil supernatural (Crom Cruach), and ultimately it restores the faith of a man who had abandoned his yearning for the supernatural end in favor of the purely natural (the Abbot, whose trust is in walls rather than the beauty of Christ).

When I see the Abbot, I see the worldly bishop who suffers from the "edifice complex". He builds great buildings because that is where he puts his trust: the ingenuity of man and the greatness of his works. He does so out of a benevolent motive, but he has lost sight of something that transcends even the suffering of the poor: the impossible beauty of Jesus Christ.

This isn't an EWTN religious ed cartoon, which hits you over the head with religion. But the point of it is very clear to me.
Yes and I might add the LOTRs was chock full of pagan and NON christian imagery on its face.
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Offline The Harlequin King

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2013, 03:07:05 AM »
This is why I didn't like the film very much. It is much heavier on the pagan elements than the Christian elements. They never mention Christ by name, never actually reference Christianity (even though the story takes place mostly in a monestary), and avoid showing any illustrations from the Book of Kells that are obviously Christian.

All of the pagan elements are glorified and put in a heroic light, while we see nothing of Christianity save for the Abbot's overly rational mind and obstinance in the face of the viking raiders. Not that these are actually reflections on the Christian faith, but they pretty much presented as such, since the Abbot is the leader of this band of monks.

This is especially highlighted when [spoiler]the "good" forest fairy rescues the boy from the clutches of his nefarious abbot uncle (by bewitching a cat) so that he can go tear the third eye off of the dark god (Crom Cruach) in order to complete the Book of Kells. This is the ONLY WAY for him to complete this book, which makes no sense whatsoever.[/spoiler] Instead of praying to God to aid him (there is no prayer in this movie at all), forest spirits aid him. Not cool.

This ties in with the modern hijacking of Celtic culture by secularists and pagans/New Agers that has really picked up in the last 30 or so years. You should have seen the Celtic Festival I attended just yesterday. No mention of Christianity, and only one tent was selling anything remotely Christian (which they kept tucked away in a corner). Pagan labyrinths, songs, and other activites were all over the place though. But that's a story for another thread.

Anyway, I didn't like the film due to the fact that they somehow made a story about the Book of Kells center around paganism. This is extra annoying to me because I come from a pagan background, and this movie is obviously geared toward pagans or people who sympathize with them. I don't know how anyone could argue that this movie is Christian, unless by Christian you mean "there were monks in it and they mention the Book of Kells".

You and Adeodatus both make some valid points. The pagan elements didn't bother me. That's just a natural part of early medieval Ireland (and later, or even much later, depending on who you ask). I agree with you that Brendan should have been shown praying in at least one scene, if for no other reason than because that's the whole point of being a monk. It's like a movie about space marines without marines shooting any bug-like aliens. That's just what they do.
 

Offline Der Kaiser

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2013, 06:17:47 AM »
This is why I didn't like the film very much. It is much heavier on the pagan elements than the Christian elements. They never mention Christ by name, never actually reference Christianity (even though the story takes place mostly in a monestary), and avoid showing any illustrations from the Book of Kells that are obviously Christian.

All of the pagan elements are glorified and put in a heroic light, while we see nothing of Christianity save for the Abbot's overly rational mind and obstinance in the face of the viking raiders. Not that these are actually reflections on the Christian faith, but they pretty much presented as such, since the Abbot is the leader of this band of monks.

This is especially highlighted when [spoiler]the "good" forest fairy rescues the boy from the clutches of his nefarious abbot uncle (by bewitching a cat) so that he can go tear the third eye off of the dark god (Crom Cruach) in order to complete the Book of Kells. This is the ONLY WAY for him to complete this book, which makes no sense whatsoever.[/spoiler] Instead of praying to God to aid him (there is no prayer in this movie at all), forest spirits aid him. Not cool.

This ties in with the modern hijacking of Celtic culture by secularists and pagans/New Agers that has really picked up in the last 30 or so years. You should have seen the Celtic Festival I attended just yesterday. No mention of Christianity, and only one tent was selling anything remotely Christian (which they kept tucked away in a corner). Pagan labyrinths, songs, and other activites were all over the place though. But that's a story for another thread.

Anyway, I didn't like the film due to the fact that they somehow made a story about the Book of Kells center around paganism. This is extra annoying to me because I come from a pagan background, and this movie is obviously geared toward pagans or people who sympathize with them. I don't know how anyone could argue that this movie is Christian, unless by Christian you mean "there were monks in it and they mention the Book of Kells".

You and Adeodatus both make some valid points. The pagan elements didn't bother me. That's just a natural part of early medieval Ireland (and later, or even much later, depending on who you ask).

If you ask my family from Ireland. Right up until at least the 1930's. My Grandpa would tell us all the time about spirits and leprachauns and how to banish them with the sign of the cross. Also that my family was protected by a good Banshee and a more Catholic fellow never lived. It's just part of the whole "celtic thing"

As to the OP: I loved this film best Cartoon I have seen since Batman the Animated series went off the air.
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Offline verenaerin

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2013, 09:11:07 AM »




If you ask my family from Ireland. Right up until at least the 1930's. My Grandpa would tell us all the time about spirits and leprachauns and how to banish them with the sign of the cross. Also that my family was protected by a good Banshee and a more Catholic fellow never lived. It's just part of the whole "celtic thing"



This is exactly my point.
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2014, 03:20:14 PM »
Instead of praying to God to aid him (there is no prayer in this movie at all), forest spirits aid him.

You're wrong.  There is prayer in the movie, particularly when Brendan thinks that he is going to be killed by the wolves in the forest.

Also, anyone who says that this movie is not Christian apparently needs to be pummeled over the head with  the words "Christian" and "Jesus" to find something Christian.  I'm not surprised that Protestants would complain about this, but for Catholics...
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Offline LouisIX

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2014, 03:28:08 PM »
Here is an image I just grabbed to prove my point.  On the movie, you can hear him praying as well.

IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline Basilios

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2014, 03:50:05 PM »
I love this movie. It's no doubt very much influenced by Miyazaki.

The music is also awesome.

Best part of movie which by the way also shows the Christian relationship here, as Pangur Ban is the name of a cat in a poem written by a 9th century monk:


Quote
You must go where I cannot,
Pangur Ban 'Pangur Ban',
Nil sa saol seo ach ceo,
Is ni bheimid beo,
ach seal beag gearr.
'Pangur Ban' 'Pangur Ban',
Nil sa saol seo ach ceo,
Is ni bheimid beo,
ach seal beag gearr.

English Translation:

You must go where I cannot,
'Pangur Ban' 'Pangur Ban',
There is nothing in this life but mist,
And we are not alive,
but for a little short spell.
'Pangur Ban' 'Pangur Ban',
There is nothing in this life but mist,
And we are not alive,
but for a little short spell.
Set a watch, O Lord, before my mouth: and a door round about my lips. Incline not my heart to evil words.
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2014, 04:03:31 PM »
That is exactly what the illuminator from Iona says in the scriptorium.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline Arun

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2014, 07:35:14 PM »
i'll watch this one wif my kids


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Offline Pheo

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2014, 08:07:19 PM »
I just watched it - it was fantastic.  Amazing animation, and it gave me hope that there are still people out there who can make illumination-quality artwork.  You know, in case I win a lottery and decide to commission the Book of Kells 2.0.

I probably found the abbot to be a much more sympathetic character than they wanted me to, even early on in the movie.

I found the themes a combination of pagan and Christian, which is typical of medieval folk belief.

Can you expand on this?  Do you mean in the sense of them believing in the fae and such, or true pagan syncretism?
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Offline GeorgeT

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2014, 11:14:09 PM »
I just watched it - it was fantastic.  Amazing animation, and it gave me hope that there are still people out there who can make illumination-quality artwork.  You know, in case I win a lottery and decide to commission the Book of Kells 2.0.

I probably found the abbot to be a much more sympathetic character than they wanted me to, even early on in the movie.

I found the themes a combination of pagan and Christian, which is typical of medieval folk belief.

Can you expand on this?  Do you mean in the sense of them believing in the fae and such, or true pagan syncretism?

Daniel Mitsui does some amazing illumination style artwork. Check him out here:

http://www.danielmitsui.com

Check out my Lives of the saints comics!

http://tautkusstudio.com/pb/wp_8bec74cf/wp_8bec74cf.html
 

Offline voxxpopulisuxx

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2014, 12:21:59 PM »
Instead of praying to God to aid him (there is no prayer in this movie at all), forest spirits aid him.

You're wrong.  There is prayer in the movie, particularly when Brendan thinks that he is going to be killed by the wolves in the forest.

Also, anyone who says that this movie is not Christian apparently needs to be pummeled over the head with  the words "Christian" and "Jesus" to find something Christian.  I'm not surprised that Protestants would complain about this, but for Catholics...
Yes. ..protty puritans would object to this film...not Catholics..all the universe and all creation sings of our Faith...it need not be blatent to be true
Lord Jesus Christ Most High Son of God have Mercy On Me a Sinner (Jesus Prayer)

“You can never cross the ocean until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore.” – Christopher Columbus
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Geocentrism holds no possible atheistic downside.
 

Offline Arun

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Re: The Secret of Kells
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2014, 04:39:01 PM »
Here is an image I just grabbed to prove my point.  On the movie, you can hear him praying as well.




watched it with my children over the weekend. they loved the film.

in this scene, Brendan starts to recite the Our Father in Gaeilge. i recognised it right away, made my spirit leap if that makes sense lol.


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Never lose Hope... Take a deep breath and have a beer.

Mother Aubert Pray For Us!



vsay ego sudba V rukah Gospodnih