fish on Fridays

[drummerboy]

My post on "What's for Dinner" over in the "Coffee and Donuts" subforum:

Sushi put together with Walmart ingredients: a cheap can of kipper snacks, rice, and seaweed, plus some proper condiments stockpiled a while ago from a Japanese market far away. And some very nice junmai nigori sake. (Taking this over to the "Ask a Traditionalist" subforum for the Catholicity of it all.)

So this follows the letter-of-the-law, but I'm not quite sure of the spirit-of-the-law. It's not lobster and caviar. But it was very good. In a premodern context, the embargo on meat is indeed meaningful. Yet in the 21st century, if dietary abstinence is meant to be part of spiritual self-discipline, it would seem that even a totally vegan Friday misses the mark if it is noticeably gratifying to the senses.

Thoughts?

Canned herring and seaweed sounds fairly penitential to me...

Canned herring is delicious, just right out of the can, no need to spice it up. 

[Miriam_M]

I love fresh fish, as well as high-end Italian tuna fillets in a jar.  You could say that therefore Fridays are not penitential for me, but unless one fishes for a living or works in a fish restaurant, the matter of inconvenience (locating fresh fish, taking the trouble to cook it delicately enough so that it keeps its texture) is the penitential part.  I agree with others that the point is not to seek out an unpleasant experience but to deny ourselves and to obey.

Also, if we really enjoy fish, despite --for some of us-- the inconvenience, we can in general eat more sparingly on Fridays without going into a full fast, but just denying ourselves other enjoyable food or pleasures.

[Jacafamala]

So this follows the letter-of-the-law, but I'm not quite sure of the spirit-of-the-law. It's not lobster and caviar. But it was very good. In a premodern context, the embargo on meat is indeed meaningful. Yet in the 21st century, if dietary abstinence is meant to be part of spiritual self-discipline, it would seem that even a totally vegan Friday misses the mark if it is noticeably gratifying to the senses.

In his blog, Taylor Marshal gives an explanation of this by way of St. Thomas Aquinas.

Saint Thomas Aquinas gives two theological reasons for the prohibition against meat in Lent.

1) First, Christ offered his flesh for our us on the wood of the cross. Since Christ gave us his flesh, we also give up flesh meat.

2) Saint Thomas' second reason for "no meat" requires a bit more explanation. Here is Thomas in his own words:

Fasting was instituted by the Church in order to bridle the concupiscences of the flesh, which regard pleasures of touch in connection with food and sex. Wherefore the Church forbade those who fast to partake of those foods which both afford most pleasure to the palate, and besides are a very great incentive to lust.

Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products, such as milk from those that walk on the earth, and eggs from birds. For, since such like animals are more like man in body, they afford greater pleasure as food, and greater nourishment to the human body, so that from their consumption there results a greater surplus available for seminal matter, which when abundant becomes a great incentive to lust. Hence the Church has bidden those who fast to abstain especially from these foods.

So hot blooded animal foods generally provide more pleasure than cold blooded animal foods. Saint Thomas associates pleasure from food to pleasure from sex.

Our food intake, teaches Thomas, effects our libido.
I bet you're weren't expecting that answer! And there is science to back it up. Higher testosterone leads to a higher libido. It's scientific fact.

Guys, do you want to increase your testosterone, eat more red meat and fatty meats. Same goes for women. Harvard Medical School found that women can increase their fertility responsiveness by increasing protein intake and switching to full-fat milk.

Want to decrease your testosterone? Eat more salad, soy, sugar, simple carbs, veggies, and lean fish. Cut out red meat and dairy.

Remember that Thomas Aquinas sat under the teaching of Albert the Great – Europe's premier biologist. It may sound medieval, but they were on to something back then. They knew that human fertility (and sexual concupiscence) was related to the consumption of animal products.

Is it any accident that the terms like:

red-blooded
hot-blooded
stud
bull
red meat
muscular
meaty
braun (originally meaning "meat" or "roast")
are related to fertility and virility.

But what about lobster or oysters?

Writing in the 13th century, Thomas recognized this problem: "Further, some fish are as delectable to eat as the flesh of certain animals. Now "concupiscence is desire of the delectable," as stated above (I-II, 30, 1)."

Saint Thomas writes that the Church rules regarding this in general and that eating flesh meat is generally more desirable than eating fish. If you doubt this, count the number of burger restaurants, steak houses, and fried chicken restaurants and compare that number to the number of Long John Silver franchises.

Of course, lobster is much better than Long John Silvers, isn't it? It's probably a good rule of thumb to avoid lobster or crab in the spirit of penance. However, for me, I'd much rather have a steak or burger than lobster.

Fancy Wine?
It's very similar to wine. The Church doesn't forbid drinking $100 bottles of wine during Lent, but it's contrary to the spirit of Lent. The Church's general rules of Lent are the bare minimum. The heartfelt sacrifice of love by which we offer little hidden penances (like eating the salad and not the lobster on Friday) to Christ bring joy to His heart and grace to our souls. Most people don't regularly eat lobster anyway. Most people do, however, eat meat regularly, and the Church thinks that we should make more sacrifice in this regard on Fridays.

And who knows, maybe your decreased consumption of hamburgers and steak will keep you on the straight and narrow!

https://taylormarshall.com/2014/03/why-is-seafood-allowed-on-fridays-in-lent-st-thomas-aquinas-provides-the-theological-answer.html

[awkward customer]

In his blog, Taylor Marshal gives an explanation of this by way of St. Thomas Aquinas.

........Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products, such as milk from those that walk on the earth, and eggs from birds. For, since such like animals are more like man in body, they afford greater pleasure as food, and greater nourishment to the human body, so that from their consumption there results a greater surplus available for seminal matter, which when abundant becomes a great incentive to lust. Hence the Church has bidden those who fast to abstain especially from these foods........

.......Our food intake, teaches Thomas, effects our libido.
I bet you're weren't expecting that answer! And there is science to back it up. Higher testosterone leads to a higher libido. It's scientific fact.

Guys, do you want to increase your testosterone, eat more red meat and fatty meats. Same goes for women. Harvard Medical School found that women can increase their fertility responsiveness by increasing protein intake and switching to full-fat milk.

Want to decrease your testosterone? Eat more salad, soy, sugar, simple carbs, veggies, and lean fish. Cut out red meat and dairy.

There you go.  As I've posted before, if you want to be healthy. strong and fertile, eat plenty of red meat and saturated animal fat.  Keep plant based eating where it belongs, during times of fasting.

They knew a thing or two, those Medievalists. 

[drummerboy]

In his blog, Taylor Marshal gives an explanation of this by way of St. Thomas Aquinas.

........Such are the flesh of animals that take their rest on the earth, and of those that breathe the air and their products, such as milk from those that walk on the earth, and eggs from birds. For, since such like animals are more like man in body, they afford greater pleasure as food, and greater nourishment to the human body, so that from their consumption there results a greater surplus available for seminal matter, which when abundant becomes a great incentive to lust. Hence the Church has bidden those who fast to abstain especially from these foods........

.......Our food intake, teaches Thomas, effects our libido.
I bet you're weren't expecting that answer! And there is science to back it up. Higher testosterone leads to a higher libido. It's scientific fact.

Guys, do you want to increase your testosterone, eat more red meat and fatty meats. Same goes for women. Harvard Medical School found that women can increase their fertility responsiveness by increasing protein intake and switching to full-fat milk.

Want to decrease your testosterone? Eat more salad, soy, sugar, simple carbs, veggies, and lean fish. Cut out red meat and dairy.

There you go.  As I've posted before, if you want to be healthy. strong and fertile, eat plenty of red meat and saturated animal fat.  Keep plant based eating where it belongs, during times of fasting.

They knew a thing or two, those Medievalists.

Just do a search for carnivore diet and fertility on youtube, many, many people, men and women both, had their fertility restored by going all meat.  I'm 95% carnivore at the moment to resolve/improve other issues, mostly the T1 diabetes, but if my wife suddenly finds herself pregnant, I won't complain.

[Julio]

I agree that meat is the best food that the humans must consume. It is much easier to digest and there are more vitamins and minerals that are necessary for cellular repair or activation of growth hormones. Plants must be taken also from time to time due to hormesis. It makes our immune system stronger. Since lean meat and animal fat are highly dense source of food, one who takes them must actively be fasting in order that the body will be able to totally manage the intake otherwise the triglycerides will be running through the roof which may cause difficulty in blood flow, calcification and worse stroke or heart attack.

[Greg]

I don't eat fish. It makes me gag. So I stick with eggs.

Try taking the bones out.

[awkward customer]

Since lean meat and animal fat are highly dense source of food, one who takes them must actively be fasting in order that the body will be able to totally manage the intake otherwise the triglycerides will be running through the roof which may cause difficulty in blood flow, calcification and worse stroke or heart attack.

I don't understand your point here.  Protein and fat from animals are the two essential nutrients.  Carbohydrates are entirely optional when it comes to human health.  Plant proteins are incomplete and low grade compared to animal proteins.  Plant seed oils are toxic and should never replace saturated animal fat. 

Modern dieticians with their low fat/high carb recommendations have inverted everything and made generations of people unhealthy.  It's all a lie.  Just do the opposite of what 'they' suggest and you'll be fine.

I know from long experience just how harmful plant-based diets can be.   

[Julio]

Lean meat and fat when taken at least 3 times in a day can put up highly dense nutrients in the body by which due to switching on the insulin every time the food is taken there must be high production of triglycerides. The constant consumption of such form of food sans fasting can result unto extreme production of the triglycerides and fat deposit in the liver. That is the reason fasting is important.

I don't have any arguments against plant protein for we have the same perception about that. Also, like you have strong disagreements with modern dieticians on low fat diets. They are among the reasons we have so many cases of type 2 diabetes today.

[Acolyte]

Typo

[Acolyte]

Edit: did it again posted on the wrong thread