Author Topic: How This Crisis Ends  (Read 1228 times)

Offline clau clau

  • My other bike is a Pinarello
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1618
  • Thanked: 1834 times
  • Religion: Traditionalist videogamer - I only play 8-bit video games
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2021, 11:33:11 AM »
Curious to see your thoughts on how the current Church crisis will end.

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/5340-how-this-crisis-ends

How This Crisis Ends

Any knowledgeable Catholic recognizes that the Catholic Church is currently in a crisis, the effects of which have been staggering. If one adds up the decline in numbers of baptisms, marriages, and vocations, coupled with the silent apostasy of millions of lapsed and “former” Catholics since the end of Vatican II, the figures would be shocking. Many words have been written about the causes of the crisis and volumes published documenting every last detail of the destruction it has caused. However, to my knowledge, little has been written attempting to explain how the crisis might one day successfully be resolved.

As with most Church crises in the past such as the Arian Crisis and the Great Western Schism, it was hard for Catholics living in those times to envision a way out, and indeed many died not knowing what eventual resolution might take place. History has, of course, shown us how these crises were resolved, but the crisis we face now, like all true crises, is unique and has no exact precedent. Thus, the future is uncertain. We may be tempted, as Catholics in the past no doubt were, to think that our crisis may become permanent, to think extreme and theologically dangerous measures are needed to resolve it, or to, God forbid, throw up our hands in frustration believing the Church has somehow failed.

In this article, I will first show why various proposed solutions to the crisis are deficient or unworkable and then I will attempt to propose what a successful resolution might eventually look like.

Read the rest here.

I read the article independently.  I did not notice it was was the subject of this thread (Doh!).  I enjoyed it.  I basically agree with the conclusion.  I suspect Our Lady will have something to do with the outcome; either that or we are in the End Times.

Would you like to shake hands with Pope 1 or Pope 2 -
 me (inspired by Dr Seuss) see: https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Thing_One_and_Thing_Two

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
 
The following users thanked this post: Melkor

Offline mikemac

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8644
  • Thanked: 4983 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2021, 02:23:03 PM »
Curious to see your thoughts on how the current Church crisis will end.

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/5340-how-this-crisis-ends

How This Crisis Ends

Any knowledgeable Catholic recognizes that the Catholic Church is currently in a crisis, the effects of which have been staggering. If one adds up the decline in numbers of baptisms, marriages, and vocations, coupled with the silent apostasy of millions of lapsed and “former” Catholics since the end of Vatican II, the figures would be shocking. Many words have been written about the causes of the crisis and volumes published documenting every last detail of the destruction it has caused. However, to my knowledge, little has been written attempting to explain how the crisis might one day successfully be resolved.

As with most Church crises in the past such as the Arian Crisis and the Great Western Schism, it was hard for Catholics living in those times to envision a way out, and indeed many died not knowing what eventual resolution might take place. History has, of course, shown us how these crises were resolved, but the crisis we face now, like all true crises, is unique and has no exact precedent. Thus, the future is uncertain. We may be tempted, as Catholics in the past no doubt were, to think that our crisis may become permanent, to think extreme and theologically dangerous measures are needed to resolve it, or to, God forbid, throw up our hands in frustration believing the Church has somehow failed.

In this article, I will first show why various proposed solutions to the crisis are deficient or unworkable and then I will attempt to propose what a successful resolution might eventually look like.

Read the rest here.

I read the article independently.  I did not notice it was was the subject of this thread (Doh!).  I enjoyed it.  I basically agree with the conclusion.  I suspect Our Lady will have something to do with the outcome; either that or we are in the End Times.

Yeah Divine Intervention so the Pope and bishops finally consecrate Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart.  A lot of people are praying for the Pope for this reason.  Or maybe if Francis sees Russian tanks crossing the Italian border it may convince him of the need to consecrate Russia.  Would you consider scaring the crap out of the Pope Divine Intervention too?
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 

Offline King Wenceslas

  • What we do in life echoes in eternity.
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2089
  • Thanked: 1091 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2021, 02:33:41 PM »
How it ends:  WW3 (kills 1/3 of population) and Fire from the Sky (Fiery Comet) (kills further 1/3 of population)

WW3 and Comet has the nice added effect of killing off all or most VII Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope(s). Also exterminates NOites also.

Do this, do that, all a waste of time now. Fire and Brimstone, bring it on.

Putin and Xi seem to be a potent combo to eradicate the hegemony of the Sodom and Gomorrah West. Xi not so much but Putin over the last several years has spoken very forthrightly about the West's depraved culture and how the West's culture would destroy what is left of Russia's culture in the long run.

Since Russia has not been converted to the True Faith due to the failure of the NO Popes it now seems God will use Russia to scourge the West using its buddy China. Hoping this happens in the next few years. Francis would be a perfect ending to this whole mess. Everyone in the future would say: "Yes, yes, God had every right to end it then and there." None of any malarkey like: "You didn't give us enough time."
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 02:53:24 PM by King Wenceslas »
 

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8826
  • Thanked: 3775 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2021, 07:15:16 PM »
How it ends:  WW3 (kills 1/3 of population) and Fire from the Sky (Fiery Comet) (kills further 1/3 of population)

WW3 and Comet has the nice added effect of killing off all or most VII Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope(s). Also exterminates NOites also.

Do this, do that, all a waste of time now. Fire and Brimstone, bring it on.

This doesn't sound very . . . Christian.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 
The following users thanked this post: Melkor

Offline Vetus Ordo

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3674
  • Thanked: 4063 times
  • Hopeful Fatalist
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2021, 07:19:54 PM »
How it ends:  WW3 (kills 1/3 of population) and Fire from the Sky (Fiery Comet) (kills further 1/3 of population)

WW3 and Comet has the nice added effect of killing off all or most VII Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope(s). Also exterminates NOites also.

Do this, do that, all a waste of time now. Fire and Brimstone, bring it on.

This doesn't sound very . . . Christian.

Have you ever read the Apocalypse?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
The following users thanked this post: Fleur-de-Lys

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8826
  • Thanked: 3775 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2021, 07:23:10 PM »
How it ends:  WW3 (kills 1/3 of population) and Fire from the Sky (Fiery Comet) (kills further 1/3 of population)

WW3 and Comet has the nice added effect of killing off all or most VII Bishops, Cardinals, and Pope(s). Also exterminates NOites also.

Do this, do that, all a waste of time now. Fire and Brimstone, bring it on.

This doesn't sound very . . . Christian.

Have you ever read the Apocalypse?

My "interlocutor" is using irony, again. Right?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Philip G.

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1131
  • Thanked: 422 times
  • Ordinary Cult
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2021, 12:17:35 AM »
Rite now we have many rites

 :rofl:

What did the the traditionalist say to the modernist who lost his lost his faith?

"Serves you rite!"

It is called a typo.  Have you never been to the novus ordo?  It is different with every priest.  The novus ordo options express the opposite of a rite.  But, Trads love to talk about the novus ordo like they are experts, when they cannot even muster up the courage to enter the building and remain there for the duration of.

I regard the Novus Ordo as the worship of a false religion, so I do not attend it.

If there’s a wedding or funeral of a loved one, I would apply the relevant moral theology principles.  But it’s not as if I’m going to turn up at the local Novus parish on a normal Sunday.

And if you are a celibate catholic male, I regard you as a coward.  It is not like you are being tossed from a boat and forced to swim to a tribal island to survive amongst natives.  Go to a run of the mill novus ordo, learn to survive, and then, consider yourself qualified to advise those in the most difficult living liturgical situation how to navigate theirs.  Because, home aloneism is not a viable option long term.  Just as the novus ordo is all about "the spirit", survival in its regard is all about "the letter". 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 12:32:47 AM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline lauermar

  • "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night!" from 'All About Eve' (1950).
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1511
  • Thanked: 584 times
  • Baby Boomer
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2021, 07:48:47 AM »
What a load of bull.

There's no law that says he must go to the novus ordo missae in order to learn to survive. Catholicism isn't Scientology. He can walk away and join the Eastern rite if he wants. None of them are cowards.
"I am not a pessimist. I am not an optimist. I am a realist." Father Malachi Martin (1921-1999)
 
The following users thanked this post: Michael Wilson, Vincentus Ioannes

Offline Vincentus Ioannes

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Thanked: 233 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2021, 12:01:03 PM »
Rite now we have many rites

 :rofl:

What did the the traditionalist say to the modernist who lost his lost his faith?

"Serves you rite!"

It is called a typo.  Have you never been to the novus ordo?  It is different with every priest.  The novus ordo options express the opposite of a rite.  But, Trads love to talk about the novus ordo like they are experts, when they cannot even muster up the courage to enter the building and remain there for the duration of.

I regard the Novus Ordo as the worship of a false religion, so I do not attend it.

If there’s a wedding or funeral of a loved one, I would apply the relevant moral theology principles.  But it’s not as if I’m going to turn up at the local Novus parish on a normal Sunday.

And if you are a celibate catholic male, I regard you as a coward.  It is not like you are being tossed from a boat and forced to swim to a tribal island to survive amongst natives.  Go to a run of the mill novus ordo, learn to survive, and then, consider yourself qualified to advise those in the most difficult living liturgical situation how to navigate theirs.  Because, home aloneism is not a viable option long term.  Just as the novus ordo is all about "the spirit", survival in its regard is all about "the letter".

I couldn't care less if you regard me as a coward.  I grew up in the Novus Ordo, and abandoning it was a conscious decision. I'm certainly not going to be swayed to return to that vomit by an anonymous user on a discussion board calling me names.

If the Novus Ordo were my only option, I would have to be "home alone", just as the recusants were during the English 'Reformation'.  But as it stands, I'm not home alone.  I have multiple options for Mass.

I have no desire to "survive" in the Novus Ordo, just as I have no desire to "survive" in Anglicanism or Lutheranism.  I want the real Catholic religion and Mass, and by the grace of God, I have found them.
 
The following users thanked this post: Jayne, Lynne, Michael Wilson, clau clau, Elizabeth.2, Melkor

Offline Philip G.

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1131
  • Thanked: 422 times
  • Ordinary Cult
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2021, 01:09:48 PM »
Rite now we have many rites

 :rofl:

What did the the traditionalist say to the modernist who lost his lost his faith?

"Serves you rite!"

It is called a typo.  Have you never been to the novus ordo?  It is different with every priest.  The novus ordo options express the opposite of a rite.  But, Trads love to talk about the novus ordo like they are experts, when they cannot even muster up the courage to enter the building and remain there for the duration of.

I regard the Novus Ordo as the worship of a false religion, so I do not attend it.

If there’s a wedding or funeral of a loved one, I would apply the relevant moral theology principles.  But it’s not as if I’m going to turn up at the local Novus parish on a normal Sunday.

And if you are a celibate catholic male, I regard you as a coward.  It is not like you are being tossed from a boat and forced to swim to a tribal island to survive amongst natives.  Go to a run of the mill novus ordo, learn to survive, and then, consider yourself qualified to advise those in the most difficult living liturgical situation how to navigate theirs.  Because, home aloneism is not a viable option long term.  Just as the novus ordo is all about "the spirit", survival in its regard is all about "the letter".

I couldn't care less if you regard me as a coward.  I grew up in the Novus Ordo, and abandoning it was a conscious decision. I'm certainly not going to be swayed to return to that vomit by an anonymous user on a discussion board calling me names.

If the Novus Ordo were my only option, I would have to be "home alone", just as the recusants were during the English 'Reformation'.  But as it stands, I'm not home alone.  I have multiple options for Mass.

I have no desire to "survive" in the Novus Ordo, just as I have no desire to "survive" in Anglicanism or Lutheranism.  I want the real Catholic religion and Mass, and by the grace of God, I have found them.

If there is vomit on your floor, are you going to have your dog clean it up?  Do you even have a dog?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 01:11:27 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Melkor

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 267
  • Thanked: 194 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2021, 01:39:04 PM »
Rite now we have many rites

 :rofl:

What did the the traditionalist say to the modernist who lost his lost his faith?

"Serves you rite!"

It is called a typo.  Have you never been to the novus ordo?  It is different with every priest.  The novus ordo options express the opposite of a rite.  But, Trads love to talk about the novus ordo like they are experts, when they cannot even muster up the courage to enter the building and remain there for the duration of.

I regard the Novus Ordo as the worship of a false religion, so I do not attend it.

If there’s a wedding or funeral of a loved one, I would apply the relevant moral theology principles.  But it’s not as if I’m going to turn up at the local Novus parish on a normal Sunday.

And if you are a celibate catholic male, I regard you as a coward.  It is not like you are being tossed from a boat and forced to swim to a tribal island to survive amongst natives.  Go to a run of the mill novus ordo, learn to survive, and then, consider yourself qualified to advise those in the most difficult living liturgical situation how to navigate theirs.  Because, home aloneism is not a viable option long term.  Just as the novus ordo is all about "the spirit", survival in its regard is all about "the letter".

I couldn't care less if you regard me as a coward.  I grew up in the Novus Ordo, and abandoning it was a conscious decision. I'm certainly not going to be swayed to return to that vomit by an anonymous user on a discussion board calling me names.

If the Novus Ordo were my only option, I would have to be "home alone", just as the recusants were during the English 'Reformation'.  But as it stands, I'm not home alone.  I have multiple options for Mass.

I have no desire to "survive" in the Novus Ordo, just as I have no desire to "survive" in Anglicanism or Lutheranism.  I want the real Catholic religion and Mass, and by the grace of God, I have found them.

If there is vomit on your floor, are you going to have your dog clean it up?  Do you even have a dog?

Bro what the hell you smokin? Seriously though, this makes zero sense.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented."

G.K. Chesterton
 
The following users thanked this post: james03

Offline james03

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9876
  • Thanked: 4327 times
  • The Brutal Clarity of a Winter Morning
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2021, 07:41:19 PM »
Quote
What a load of bull.

There's no law that says he must go to the novus ordo missae in order to learn to survive. Catholicism isn't Scientology. He can walk away and join the Eastern rite if he wants. None of them are cowards.

Leave the dead to bury the dead.  The time of the novus ordo is passing, the time of the Trad is here.  They celebrate their funerals, we celebrate baptisms and marriages.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich, Lynne, Melkor

Offline Philip G.

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1131
  • Thanked: 422 times
  • Ordinary Cult
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2021, 02:22:02 AM »
"Even the whelps eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table".
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 02:25:38 AM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Melkor

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 267
  • Thanked: 194 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2021, 10:06:45 AM »
"Even the whelps eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table".

Welp, guess that settles this discussion..... ::)
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented."

G.K. Chesterton
 
The following users thanked this post: Jayne

Offline james03

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9876
  • Thanked: 4327 times
  • The Brutal Clarity of a Winter Morning
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: How This Crisis Ends
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2021, 10:42:15 PM »
Quote
"Even the whelps eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table".

When a cat climbs a tree and eats a lizard, does that mean the moon was full?
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"