Author Topic: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain  (Read 1032 times)

Offline Daniel

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2021, 03:58:27 PM »
when the intention is still to be reverential to God.

I'd question whether this is even possible.

Suppose I have the intention of doing my friend no harm, and I also have the intention of stabbing him with a knife. Problem is, harm inheres in the act of stabbing him with a knife. So if I go through with my second intention and stab him with a knife, he's not going to go unharmed. My first intention, not to harm him, is an empty intention.

Likewise, I don't see how you can intend reverence while also intending on using particular phrases which are inherently profane. If you use those phrases, your intention of reverence is vain.
 
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2021, 04:48:38 PM »



  Per Fr. Kopac, SSPX of St Michael’s Chapel in Oklahoma City

Fr.Kopek is one of the best Confessors, ever.  I think he's in the genius category. 
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2021, 05:00:54 PM »
Ok so I went to confession to our Society priest here this morning.   Mentioned the statements I made plus the hypothetical examples I’m asking about in the OP.   Per Fr. Kopac, SSPX of St Michael’s Chapel in Oklahoma City (nice little community I call an “oasis,” set in the countryside surrounded by a pond and ducks):

1. They are NOT sins.

2. Let alone mortal sins.

3. Let alone approaching anything like blasphemy.

4. Therefore they DO NOT break the 2nd Commandment or use the Lord’s name in vain.

5. “It comes down to INTENT (not the statement itself).  If the intent is irreverence, or to have no reverence at all when referencing God, then yes it would offend God, at least venially.”

That said, since it obviously offends some people here of a different sensibility, I will only refer to the Good Lord’s name on this forum in the most solemn manner going forward.

Did you mention to the priest that you thought Jesus got a buzz on with the apostles now and then?  Or that you speculated as to whether Jesus had sampled the local weed?  There is no reverence there, in either case.

Nevertheless I'm glad to see that you plan to change your attitude.   
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2021, 05:23:15 PM »
when the intention is still to be reverential to God.

I'd question whether this is even possible.

Suppose I have the intention of doing my friend no harm, and I also have the intention of stabbing him with a knife. Problem is, harm inheres in the act of stabbing him with a knife. So if I go through with my second intention and stab him with a knife, he's not going to go unharmed. My first intention, not to harm him, is an empty intention.

Likewise, I don't see how you can intend reverence while also intending on using particular phrases which are inherently profane. If you use those phrases, your intention of reverence is vain.

Because as Fr clarified it to me, those phrases (the ones I listed) are not necessarily as they stand on their own doing harm to God, so it would not be like stabbing a friend.  The phrase otherwise profane is non-profane with the reverential intention.   Said with zero intent for reverence, phrases like “Good Good Patrick, I wish you would stop giving your sister Brigid black eyes” are not intrinsically profane because they at least in part are making a pious statement about God.  If you just say “Good God” only with the intent of scolding, that misuses God’s name.  But if part of your intent by adding “Good God” is to convey the truth “In the name of the Good God” to correct Patrick’s sin of violence, then you are not being profane.  Same as when a wreckless car nearly slams into my car on the freeway, and the Mrs calls out “Dear Lord” as she often does, she is both expressing astonishment and invoking God at the same time, unless she was a bad Catholic and only uses the phrase with no real reference to the Almighty.  Which is why as the priests explained, whether or not it is actually profane or not in the first place comes down to intent.  Referring to God in a more informal or even humorous way if there is intent for reverence is therefore not using God’s name in vain.  Truly using God’s name in vain as the pagan’s do is one extreme, but I think there’s also another extreme to be avoided.  Like scrupulosity.   One of the comments I’ve sometimes made debating alcohol consumption for example, is to humorously suggest Our Lord and the Apostles would’ve enjoyed a pint now and then.  But since some judge that profane talk of Christ, in respect to them to not unnecessarily offend, I’ll have to subdue more my Irish temperament. :)   Being half Irish. 
 
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2021, 05:25:35 PM »
Ok so I went to confession to our Society priest here this morning.   Mentioned the statements I made plus the hypothetical examples I’m asking about in the OP.   Per Fr. Kopac, SSPX of St Michael’s Chapel in Oklahoma City (nice little community I call an “oasis,” set in the countryside surrounded by a pond and ducks):

1. They are NOT sins.

2. Let alone mortal sins.

3. Let alone approaching anything like blasphemy.

4. Therefore they DO NOT break the 2nd Commandment or use the Lord’s name in vain.

5. “It comes down to INTENT (not the statement itself).  If the intent is irreverence, or to have no reverence at all when referencing God, then yes it would offend God, at least venially.”

That said, since it obviously offends some people here of a different sensibility, I will only refer to the Good Lord’s name on this forum in the most solemn manner going forward.

Did you mention to the priest that you thought Jesus got a buzz on with the apostles now and then?  Or that you speculated as to whether Jesus had sampled the local weed?  There is no reverence there, in either case.

Nevertheless I'm glad to see that you plan to change your attitude.

I covered everything.   And mentioning it in confession wasn’t to correct my attitude about how I talk about God.  I asked if the phrases were a sin, which my informed conscience already told me were not, the priest said no, so I wasn’t confessing those as sins (apart from my other sins I confessed, being a sinner).  Where is my attitude wrong exactly Mikemac?  The priest said I didn’t sin.  He didn’t say I needed to correct my attitude.  Had he, I would have otherwise absolutely accepted that judgment and confessed it as a sin.  But he didn’t.  So I’m going with my traditional priest over the rash judgments of lay strangers on the internet I’ve never met.

Re the phrases you mentioned, on their own there is no direct harm to God, and I certainly meant no irreverence.  Jesus could have done that, I see nothing in itself sinful wondering if he did.  Getting a buzz is not evil, nor is smoking an herb in ancient times to merely relax you.  He was like us in all things but sin after all.  I consider the questions as making that point in reverence but also with a sense of humor. It comes across as scruples and private judgment  to think those phrases are a sin, not what the Church herself says, unless you can show otherwise. We are Catholics after all, not Fundamentalists.

My last post in this thread.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 05:52:05 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline mikemac

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2021, 06:49:06 PM »
You are contradicting yourself.  What you posted in this forum that I consider not reverent and number 5 from your trad priest's list above do not jive.  Yep, case closed.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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Online Heinrich

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2021, 07:12:17 PM »
You are contradicting yourself.  What you posted in this forum that I consider not reverent and number 5 from your trad priest's list above do not jive.  Yep, case closed.

Imagine that.
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2021, 07:28:58 PM »
I once used the expression Good Heavens in this forum and got a scolding PM from one of our more scrupulous members.

Really????? Not on this forum????? Never!!!!
 

Offline coffeeandcigarette

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2021, 11:16:06 PM »
I once used the expression Good Heavens in this forum and got a scolding PM from one of our more scrupulous members.

Really????? Not on this forum????? Never!!!!

They may not be particularly scrupulous. They may simply be following the advice of Fr. Ripperger who says we shouldn't say "goodness" "good heavens" oh my gosh" etc. He says we should be extremely careful in our speech. I guess this is part of being a living breathing contradiction to the world. People would sure sit up and take notice if you never spoke with even those lazy/casual expletives.
 
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2021, 09:30:44 AM »
Well, I have many sins of the tongue or pen or keyboard to make up for.   :pray3: :pray3: :pray3:

For the last couple of years, whenever possible (and it does take some planning) I have been using blessed candles  against unclean spirits of the air.

I tested this during some horrible times, using blessed and unblessed, so I hope this will help anyone else with a temperament such as mine, or if loved ones have problems with controlling their irrascible passions.

Also, using blessed salt all the time at home gradually grinds away at generalized, offensive attitudes.  As for prevention and restitution, Holy Hour with recitation of the Divine Praises before Our Lord in the Tabernacle is an absolute life saver.



 
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Offline Melkor

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2021, 10:39:14 AM »
I was always taught to avoid using the Name of the Lord in anger or irreverence. Using the Name of the Lord in vain means using it for any purpose outside of prayer or reverent discussion. Things like g-dammit, OMG, Jesus Christ. If you say 'Good Lord' and are actually talking with reverence to Him, than I think that is ok. But as an exclamation? I think there are other things to say without calling on God. I myself have zero hesitation with using any swearword, albeit not in the presence of women or children. I once, when I was younger, confessed to 'swearing.' The priest asked me how I had called on God wrongfully and with what intent, and when I mentioned that I had said the f-bomb and other words, he chuckled and said, oh, you, 'mean the four dirty words. They're venial unless you scandalize someone or use the f word in a dirty sense.'
   
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Offline mikemac

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2021, 04:37:17 PM »
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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Offline Angela

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2021, 05:07:54 PM »
So many of you have said so many good things (against) taking Our Lord’s name in vain; so many have said their opinions; so many have said what this or that priest has said about it. All these conflicting opinions...what to take as what Holy  Mother Church means? I don’t know! I hear fellow-Catholics saying cringe-worthy words unnecessarily.. G-damn? Is that ever acceptable?? How about ‘OMG’? Really? Are people really invoking God’s aid in that particular situation?

Let me give my opinion, for what it’s worth; always, any unnecessary usinging of His Divine Name is a sin. I’d rather hear the ‘’F-bomb,’ or any such language, rather than ANYTHING that involves God’s name, be it His Son or His Blessed Mother. I teach my children that, and anyone who says these things in my earshot.

 
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Offline red solo cup

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2021, 07:29:01 AM »
I once used the expression Good Heavens in this forum and got a scolding PM from one of our more scrupulous members.

Good Heavens who??

only joking  ;)
That person has posted in this thread.
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Offline diaduit

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Re: Using the Lord’s Name in Vain
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2021, 04:38:58 AM »
I once used the expression Good Heavens in this forum and got a scolding PM from one of our more scrupulous members.

Good Heavens who??

only joking  ;)
That person has posted in this thread.

I got a pm  ;)

Ah well I am trying to master the tongue and its so hard as I'm Irish and everything Covid makes me :madsmiley: :madsmiley:

so its no harm for me to get a rap on the knuckle.