Author Topic: Can Catholics use marijuana?  (Read 2417 times)

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2021, 12:06:53 AM »
Well, we are allowed to be given morphine for medicinal purposes. I should think that, weed being much less potent than morphine, we would be allowed to use it for health reasons. (I am talking about epilepsy and appetite-related illnesses, not some stoner saying he has a condition that he just invented). Recreational use? Not sure, but by all accounts pot has a lesser effect than alcohol. Wouldn't know from experience, just going off of science and hearsay.

The difference is that morphine use is not a religious practice, nor is morphine abused for casual/recreational purposes.  Morphine is strictly used for medicine.  As a result, one is less likely to abuse it.  This is what I mean by guilty by proxy/association. 

Here is a story from a high school friend of mine.  It was about the first time he ever smoked weed.  He smoked weed, and rode his bike home.  He was riding, and he was wondering why he felt so sluggish.  He thought it was just the high/weed messing with him.  When he got home, he realized he had a flat tire.  He was riding home on a flat tire, and didn't even know it.  He had lost his use of reason.

Pot is totally different from alcohol.  They should not be compared.  Remain objective. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 12:09:37 AM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2021, 02:26:09 AM »
Phillip and I are apparently both around a lot of potheads, and the practice is quite different from the theory.  In "theory," marijuana is innocent.  Supposedly, it is either for legitimate medicinal use where other kinds of pain relief are ineffective or too debilitating, OR it is harmless, recreational fun, of no greater consequence than relaxing over drinks on a Friday night after a demanding work week.

First objection is that a very small amount of marijuana impairs reaction time much, much more than even one beer does.  The person ends up very much the way Phillip described the bicyclist:  unaware. In his case, the flat tire affected only the cyclist, but where I live, stoned-out, spaced-out marijuana users make the roads dangerous for the rest of us.  When a user doesn't perceive danger, he can imperil many drivers and passengers near him, and such a user often does.

Second objection is that the most irresponsible users often combine marijuana with alcohol, with deadly result.  This happened in my state shortly after it was legalized. Tremendous loss of innocent life followed from someone combining the two substances and who then went on a freeway spree.  (No, he wasn't on amphetamines.) 

Third objection is that, like other substances, it can just as easily be abused, and often is.  Addictions do form; they just seem "softer" than addictions to other drugs and to alcohol, but users do become dependent.  Please no one tell me that this is a myth.  I've known such people personally.  One was even a boyfriend of mine.

I'm so tired of people romanticizing marijuana use and coming up with lame explanations about how it's supposedly in a class by itself, "above" alcohol. 

Yeah, OK.  You're special.
 :rolleyes:
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2021, 03:54:01 AM »
 
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Offline Melkor

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2021, 10:35:51 AM »
Thank you for that article, it was pretty good. I tend to agree with most of what he said; the part concerning hard liquor was a bit far-fetched though if I am being honest. It seemed he was promoting beer as fine (which it is of course), but saying that the use of hard liquor leads to withdrawal from society. This is ridiculous as far as I am concerned, I rarely drink whisky, and if I do it is usually among friends over a cigar around a fire. It seemed he had an axe to grind against hard liquor right off the bat. Nevertheless, I cannot argue against his logic concerning marijuana.
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Offline Melkor

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2021, 10:49:22 AM »
Well, we are allowed to be given morphine for medicinal purposes. I should think that, weed being much less potent than morphine, we would be allowed to use it for health reasons. (I am talking about epilepsy and appetite-related illnesses, not some stoner saying he has a condition that he just invented). Recreational use? Not sure, but by all accounts pot has a lesser effect than alcohol. Wouldn't know from experience, just going off of science and hearsay.

The difference is that morphine use is not a religious practice, nor is morphine abused for casual/recreational purposes.  Morphine is strictly used for medicine.  As a result, one is less likely to abuse it.  This is what I mean by guilty by proxy/association. 

Here is a story from a high school friend of mine.  It was about the first time he ever smoked weed.  He smoked weed, and rode his bike home.  He was riding, and he was wondering why he felt so sluggish.  He thought it was just the high/weed messing with him.  When he got home, he realized he had a flat tire.  He was riding home on a flat tire, and didn't even know it.  He had lost his use of reason.

Pot is totally different from alcohol.  They should not be compared.  Remain objective.

So, never heard of a morphine addiction? Many people abuse morphine. And who said that pot is a religious practice? Do some people use it religiously and abuse it? Of course. Same as alcohol, and anything else temporal. And in theory, pot is less addicting and brain altering than alcohol, so I have no clue what you mean by remaining objective. I asked an honest question and am trying to figure this out. For medical purposes, true medical purposes(not some stoner inventing a condition), there is no doubt in my mind that it is viable and in keeping with the Church.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented."

G.K. Chesterton
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2021, 12:01:06 PM »
A long time ago, I listened to two priests from Colorado on a podcast about this topic.  Basically, they said that one hit of a joint makes one high, so there can be no moderation in pot use.  Whereas, one drink will (generally) not make one drunk, therefore it can be used in moderation for recreational reasons.  While alcohol may be worse in excess than pot, in moderation it isn't. 
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2021, 04:24:13 PM »
Well, we are allowed to be given morphine for medicinal purposes. I should think that, weed being much less potent than morphine, we would be allowed to use it for health reasons. (I am talking about epilepsy and appetite-related illnesses, not some stoner saying he has a condition that he just invented). Recreational use? Not sure, but by all accounts pot has a lesser effect than alcohol. Wouldn't know from experience, just going off of science and hearsay.

The difference is that morphine use is not a religious practice, nor is morphine abused for casual/recreational purposes.  Morphine is strictly used for medicine.  As a result, one is less likely to abuse it.  This is what I mean by guilty by proxy/association. 

Here is a story from a high school friend of mine.  It was about the first time he ever smoked weed.  He smoked weed, and rode his bike home.  He was riding, and he was wondering why he felt so sluggish.  He thought it was just the high/weed messing with him.  When he got home, he realized he had a flat tire.  He was riding home on a flat tire, and didn't even know it.  He had lost his use of reason.

Pot is totally different from alcohol.  They should not be compared.  Remain objective.

So, never heard of a morphine addiction? Many people abuse morphine. And who said that pot is a religious practice? Do some people use it religiously and abuse it? Of course. Same as alcohol, and anything else temporal. And in theory, pot is less addicting and brain altering than alcohol, so I have no clue what you mean by remaining objective. I asked an honest question and am trying to figure this out. For medical purposes, true medical purposes(not some stoner inventing a condition), there is no doubt in my mind that it is viable and in keeping with the Church.
I don't think marijuana use is an addiction.  I would categorize it more as a spiritual slavery.  Therefore, I do not think it is comparable to morphine.  Marijuana is a quasi religion, and that is why it has the appearance of an addiction.

Have you never heard of Bob Marley, or of a rastafarian?  Marley's song "I wanna be iron, like a lion, in zion" is a religious song worshiping the ethiopian emperor haile selassie.  No joke, the pot heads/rastafarians of Jamaica and ethiopia believe(d) that Haili selassie was the second coming of Jesus Christ/the messiah.  He was an etheopian orthodox christian emperor from the 20th century who did not discourage their belief.   There are other manifestations aside from this.

How is it that you have no doubt that medicinally it is in keeping with church teaching?  I think that you have already made up your mind about marijuana, and you want some company from other catholics to join you in your conviction.  Well, I will not be one of them.  In my opinion, from a catholic perspective, marijuana can be tolerated in non catholics in society for medicinal, and for genuine religious reasons.  There are a few exceptions where it can be tolerated recreationally in non catholics, but those are prudential decisions. 

It should be tolerated for religious reasons because here in america we have freedom of worship, despite the fact that few marijuana users will acknowledge that it is their religion, despite it certainly being.  They want to have their cake, and to eat it too.   I don't think generally it should be tolerated for recreational reasons, for a variety of reasons, that are all intertwined

I had a pot head client who worked in the industry, and about a year ago he said to me 100% serious when I told him that I have a lot of allergies that "I must have magical powers then".  He was 100% serious, and he was a daily user, who didn't mix with other substances.  It is also from my experience the recreational user who pressures others to try it for gateway(medicinal)reasons.  The genuine medicinal user doesn't pressure others to use the product.  I have encountered both types. 

This is as good a proverb regarding marijuana users as you will find.  The pot head "believes"(religious element/faith) in using it "recreationally"(social element/hope) for "medicinal reasons"(salvific element/charity).  The movement apes the three theological virtues.  I do not underestimate marijuana.  It is a very potent religious movement, that has successfully disguised itself as the opposite, as health care. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 05:08:02 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2021, 05:11:27 PM »
Phillip and I are apparently both around a lot of potheads, and the practice is quite different from the theory.  In "theory," marijuana is innocent.  Supposedly, it is either for legitimate medicinal use where other kinds of pain relief are ineffective or too debilitating, OR it is harmless, recreational fun, of no greater consequence than relaxing over drinks on a Friday night after a demanding work week.

First objection is that a very small amount of marijuana impairs reaction time much, much more than even one beer does.  The person ends up very much the way Phillip described the bicyclist:  unaware. In his case, the flat tire affected only the cyclist, but where I live, stoned-out, spaced-out marijuana users make the roads dangerous for the rest of us.  When a user doesn't perceive danger, he can imperil many drivers and passengers near him, and such a user often does.

Second objection is that the most irresponsible users often combine marijuana with alcohol, with deadly result.  This happened in my state shortly after it was legalized. Tremendous loss of innocent life followed from someone combining the two substances and who then went on a freeway spree.  (No, he wasn't on amphetamines.) 

Third objection is that, like other substances, it can just as easily be abused, and often is.  Addictions do form; they just seem "softer" than addictions to other drugs and to alcohol, but users do become dependent.  Please no one tell me that this is a myth.  I've known such people personally.  One was even a boyfriend of mine.

I'm so tired of people romanticizing marijuana use and coming up with lame explanations about how it's supposedly in a class by itself, "above" alcohol. 

Yeah, OK.  You're special.
 :rolleyes:

Do you live in California?  I do.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Melkor

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2021, 07:03:47 PM »
Well, we are allowed to be given morphine for medicinal purposes. I should think that, weed being much less potent than morphine, we would be allowed to use it for health reasons. (I am talking about epilepsy and appetite-related illnesses, not some stoner saying he has a condition that he just invented). Recreational use? Not sure, but by all accounts pot has a lesser effect than alcohol. Wouldn't know from experience, just going off of science and hearsay.

The difference is that morphine use is not a religious practice, nor is morphine abused for casual/recreational purposes.  Morphine is strictly used for medicine.  As a result, one is less likely to abuse it.  This is what I mean by guilty by proxy/association. 

Here is a story from a high school friend of mine.  It was about the first time he ever smoked weed.  He smoked weed, and rode his bike home.  He was riding, and he was wondering why he felt so sluggish.  He thought it was just the high/weed messing with him.  When he got home, he realized he had a flat tire.  He was riding home on a flat tire, and didn't even know it.  He had lost his use of reason.

Pot is totally different from alcohol.  They should not be compared.  Remain objective.

So, never heard of a morphine addiction? Many people abuse morphine. And who said that pot is a religious practice? Do some people use it religiously and abuse it? Of course. Same as alcohol, and anything else temporal. And in theory, pot is less addicting and brain altering than alcohol, so I have no clue what you mean by remaining objective. I asked an honest question and am trying to figure this out. For medical purposes, true medical purposes(not some stoner inventing a condition), there is no doubt in my mind that it is viable and in keeping with the Church.
I don't think marijuana use is an addiction.  I would categorize it more as a spiritual slavery.  Therefore, I do not think it is comparable to morphine.  Marijuana is a quasi religion, and that is why it has the appearance of an addiction.

Have you never heard of Bob Marley, or of a rastafarian?  Marley's song "I wanna be iron, like a lion, in zion" is a religious song worshiping the ethiopian emperor haile selassie.  No joke, the pot heads/rastafarians of Jamaica and ethiopia believe(d) that Haili selassie was the second coming of Jesus Christ/the messiah.  He was an etheopian orthodox christian emperor from the 20th century who did not discourage their belief.   There are other manifestations aside from this.

How is it that you have no doubt that medicinally it is in keeping with church teaching?  I think that you have already made up your mind about marijuana, and you want some company from other catholics to join you in your conviction.  Well, I will not be one of them.  In my opinion, from a catholic perspective, marijuana can be tolerated in non catholics in society for medicinal, and for genuine religious reasons.  There are a few exceptions where it can be tolerated recreationally in non catholics, but those are prudential decisions. 

It should be tolerated for religious reasons because here in america we have freedom of worship, despite the fact that few marijuana users will acknowledge that it is their religion, despite it certainly being.  They want to have their cake, and to eat it too.   I don't think generally it should be tolerated for recreational reasons, for a variety of reasons, that are all intertwined

I had a pot head client who worked in the industry, and about a year ago he said to me 100% serious when I told him that I have a lot of allergies that "I must have magical powers then".  He was 100% serious, and he was a daily user, who didn't mix with other substances.  It is also from my experience the recreational user who pressures others to try it for gateway(medicinal)reasons.  The genuine medicinal user doesn't pressure others to use the product.  I have encountered both types. 

This is as good a proverb regarding marijuana users as you will find.  The pot head "believes"(religious element/faith) in using it "recreationally"(social element/hope) for "medicinal reasons"(salvific element/charity).  The movement apes the three theological virtues.  I do not underestimate marijuana.  It is a very potent religious movement, that has successfully disguised itself as the opposite, as health care.

If you read my original post, you would know that I am strictly talking about the morality of recreational use, not medicinal use. There never was a doubt in my mind about using for medicinal purposes. And I will reiterate, I am not looking for an excuse to try pot out, I will not touch the stuff. Unless, of course, I have  a legitimate health concern that validates the use of it, which I do not. I am not looking for people to 'join' me, and even if I was I couldn't care less about your opinions regarding the matter.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented."

G.K. Chesterton
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2021, 07:44:01 PM »
Melkor - The reason I emphasize medicinal is because it is the gateway in this discussion.  You say you have no doubt about it medicinally, yet will not heed the teachings of the church regarding recreational use.  So, if I can somehow change your opinion about medicinal use, you may come to the correct position regarding its recreation on your own, which appears to be the non negotiable in this discussion.  It is a logical conclusion, hence my emphasis.

http://www.sspxflorida.com/en/news-events/news/get-pot-just-say-no-47742

Can marijuana be used for medical reason?

This could only be acceptable if there is a proportionate good to be attained by the consumption of the marijuana - i.e., for a legitimate medical reason[iv].  There are generally many other less dangerous alternatives which are rightly preferred to so-called medical marijuana, however.

We can see that even as more states remove legal barriers to the use of marijuana, Catholics must be faithful to the natural law and avoid this drug. Marijuana can never be used recreationally. As a good disciple of Christ, a Christian acknowledges and assumes with the grace of God and prayers one’s duty of state just as Christ embraced and carried the Cross. Prudence obliges one to organize and use entertainment with moderation and as a means to better carry on with one’s duties.


Along the course of our discussion, you reasoned that because morphine is more potent, and we are allowed it for medicinal reasons, marijuana should therefore be allowed to use it for medicinal reasons.  That reasoning is not the reasoning of "holy mother church".  So, the onus is on you.  What is the proportional good achieved that cannot be achieved by way of other methods?  If that is not present, its medicinal use is not licit. 

If you genuinely have no doubt about it, and have made up your mind, I am correct in stating that you are essentially trolling the forum unto accepting its use.  Because, no traditional catholic would risk going against these teachings particularly regarding recreation.  They are unambiguous.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 07:49:32 PM by Philip G. »
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2021, 08:12:29 PM »

I would categorize it more as a spiritual slavery. Marijuana is a quasi religion, and that is why it has the appearance of an addiction.

Yes, this is a good analysis. I would say that marijuana is a spirit, or maybe contains a spirit. True, there are worse, more malicious spirits. But it will have an affect on your soul.
 

Offline Melkor

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2021, 08:15:28 PM »
Firstly, I am not trolling the forum. If asking an honest question and having a logical discussion is your definition of trolling, than you are the troll. I was looking for an article or something solid to go on. And that has been provided. Once the Church speaks, I listen. And as far as I am concerned, I would still rather use THC oil for a grave illness than morphine.

Thanks all for contributing.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented."

G.K. Chesterton
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2021, 08:37:39 PM »
Firstly, I am not trolling the forum. If asking an honest question and having a logical discussion is your definition of trolling, than you are the troll. I was looking for an article or something solid to go on. And that has been provided. Once the Church speaks, I listen. And as far as I am concerned, I would still rather use THC oil for a grave illness than morphine.

Thanks all for contributing.

Without acknowledging the existence of marijuana's religious element, your allegiance is shallow.  For, you still speak favorably about its gateway reception. The consequences of it cannot be argued, if one fails to acknowledge its existence.  And, the keyword is fail.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 08:41:18 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Melkor

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2021, 08:58:39 PM »
Firstly, I am not trolling the forum. If asking an honest question and having a logical discussion is your definition of trolling, than you are the troll. I was looking for an article or something solid to go on. And that has been provided. Once the Church speaks, I listen. And as far as I am concerned, I would still rather use THC oil for a grave illness than morphine.

Thanks all for contributing.

Without acknowledging the existence of marijuana's religious element, your allegiance is shallow.  For, you still speak favorably about its gateway reception. The consequences of it cannot be argued, if one fails to acknowledge its existence.  And, the keyword is fail.

I didn't know you were on the Judgement Day committee. God will judge my "allegiance," whatever that means. Frankly though, I don't know what you mean by 'gateway reception.' Care to elaborate?
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented."

G.K. Chesterton
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Can Catholics use marijuana?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2021, 09:14:29 PM »
Firstly, I am not trolling the forum. If asking an honest question and having a logical discussion is your definition of trolling, than you are the troll. I was looking for an article or something solid to go on. And that has been provided. Once the Church speaks, I listen. And as far as I am concerned, I would still rather use THC oil for a grave illness than morphine.

Thanks all for contributing.

Without acknowledging the existence of marijuana's religious element, your allegiance is shallow.  For, you still speak favorably about its gateway reception. The consequences of it cannot be argued, if one fails to acknowledge its existence.  And, the keyword is fail.

I didn't know you were on the Judgement Day committee. God will judge my "allegiance," whatever that means. Frankly though, I don't know what you mean by 'gateway reception.' Care to elaborate?


Its gateway is medicinal use.  And, judgement day rides on that back of its own neglect.  I refuse to be an accessory. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2021, 09:23:53 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12