Author Topic: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?  (Read 282 times)

Offline Daniel

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Does anybody else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse? My thoughts are a bit mixed and not too strong (still kind of on the fence), but here are a few points that have crossed my mind:


On principle:
If I'm not mistaken, the liturgy is supposed to be akin to a mystery religion. The ceremonies themselves (at least those of the second half of the Mass, called the "Mass of the Faithful") are supposed to be kept hidden from non-Catholics (which is why the ancient practice was to make all the non-Catholics, including the catechumens, leave the building after the sermon). But by livestreaming the Mass, it is no longer hidden. (And in some ways it even seems like a kind of pornography. A very sacred, very private act of union between Christ and His bride is being filmed and exhibited online.)


In practice:
As I've heard noted in the past, "The sacraments cannot be livestreamed". So by livestreaming the Mass, it gives off the impression that the Mass is not a sacramental reality but is merely a prayer service. As if the livestream is in some way a full replacement to our being physically present in the chapel during Mass.


Lastly, I do suppose that some people are able to use the livestream for legitimate devotional purposes, but to me the whole thing is rather confusing. At Mass, we adore the Blessed Sacrament. At home we can't do this, since we're not looking at the Blessed Sacrament but only at a video image on the computer screen. Yet I take it we ought to be adoring God's real presence, which we know to be in the chapel, even though we ourselves are not there? Is it even possible to adore remotely in this way? And if so, how do we do this without inadvertently adoring the image? Or would we be better off ignoring the image altogether, and just trying to adore God in His omnipresence rather than His real presence?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 10:49:52 PM by Daniel »
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2021, 11:30:02 PM »
Oh, this will be fun.
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

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Offline GiftOfGod

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2021, 12:19:13 AM »
Not any more than taking a photo or looking at it. As far as I know, trads don't consider live streaming to be fulfilling the Sunday obligation; only the NOers do that. That said, historically your view was seen as correct. I read that all churches used to have a curtain that would be closed by the servers during the consecration.
 

Offline DeaconJamesOxford

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2021, 04:59:32 AM »
I don't know anyone 'Trad' or 'NO' who considers watching a livestream as fulfilment of the Sunday obligation (which is, in any case suspended at the moment in the UK at least). I am deeply ambivalent about it myself - personally I find it such a remote and distant simulation that I would rather switch it off and go and pray in private or say a family rosary - BUT I know that there are many housebound in our parish who derive great comfort and consolation from it - particularly when they can receive Holy Communion immediately afterwards at home from a host consecrated at the Mass they have just watched
 

Offline Lynne

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In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2021, 01:26:27 PM »
Just no.

It cannot be a Mass proper, but the saying of prayers assisting by the livestream is good and fitting.

Nothing better can happen while the COVID Chicom hoax afflicts us all.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 
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Offline orate

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2021, 03:49:39 PM »
Even before VII they had The Mass for Shut-Ins on television.  So recording for tv or internet would not, in and of itself be "liturgical abuse". Think of a photo as GoG said. 

And as anyone with a good understanding of the Faith knows, no, it does not fulfill one's Sunday obligation-- at least not in normal times-- for those who are able bodied, unless one has some other valid reason for not attending in person. (sick child, burdensome distance, etc.)

But for those of us who are old and/or infirm, livestreaming Mass can be a wonderful way to unite oneself with the Mass.  When the Host is elevated I adore the Host located in the Church where it was just consecrated--not the image on the screen.  It is kind of like using a picture or statue to raise ones heart in prayer.  We Catholics are not praying to the "image" but asking the intersession of who it stands for--the saint-BVM, etc.  We are not, after all, Protestants who think that any image is a "graven" image.

For some of us, it is the closest we can get to "Mass". 

"One can only do what one can do.  And one cannot do what one cannot do." Rev Pierre Gaunche SSPX  The Church is infinitely reasonable and does not require us to do what we cannot do.

I think it is an error to get too bogged down in minutia and the letter of the law, to the detriment of the spirit of the law.  Using thee term "abuse" for livestreaming is a bit of overkill.

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Offline abc123

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2021, 08:59:42 PM »
Does anybody else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse? My thoughts are a bit mixed and not too strong (still kind of on the fence)

Something tells me you'll end up on the side of the fence which concludes that watching a livestreamed mass is mortally sinful and somehow breaks at least 4 of the 10 commandments.
"I once laboured hard for the free will of man until the grace of God at length overcame me."- St. Augustine
 

Offline OzarkCatholic

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2021, 10:54:19 PM »

Something tells me you'll end up on the side of the fence which concludes that watching a livestreamed mass is mortally sinful and somehow breaks at least 4 of the 10 commandments.

6 of the 10. Come now. Don't capitulate to New Rome!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 11:40:24 PM by OzarkCatholic »
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2021, 06:43:26 AM »
BUT I know that there are many housebound in our parish who derive great comfort and consolation from it - particularly when they can receive Holy Communion immediately afterwards at home from a host consecrated at the Mass they have just watched

Interesting, I had never thought of that before. I always wondered why parishes want it to be live rather than pre-recorded. But I guess this makes sense.


Even before VII they had The Mass for Shut-Ins on television.  So recording for tv or internet would not, in and of itself be "liturgical abuse". Think of a photo as GoG said. 

This doesn't really prove much. Because liturgical abuses have been going on for centuries, so perhaps this is just one of the pre-Vatican II abuses.

I get the photo comparison, except that I'm not entirely sure that taking photos of the Mass, during Mass, is a very appropriate thing to do either. But I am aware that it is often done, and even more so in trad parishes than in NO parishes. (But although such photos are often used for instructional purposes, or to promote the TLM, or for some other good end, using them for devotional purposes makes little sense. A photo is not an icon. A photo cannot convey the unseen reality. This is a known problem concerning naturalistic devotional art in general.)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 06:45:03 AM by Daniel »
 

Offline moneil

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2021, 10:48:14 AM »
I recall watching the Requiem Mass for Pope Pius XII in 1958, broadcast throughout the world, and it is easily available to watch.  I also found this clip of His Holiness celebrating Mass at St. Peter's Basilica, including the Consecration.

President John Kennedy's Requiem Mass i 1963 was livestreamed.

Several here will remember, from back in the "Fish tank" days, Timothy McCarthy in Chicago, who couldn't always get out to attend the TLM because of health.  When he died on March 20, 2014 the request was made (I presume from the family, I recall seeing it in his obituary on the funeral home web page) to have Masses said for him, and especially at the FSSP parish in Florida whose web casts he watched.  As was mentioned, many traditionalist chapels offer a web cast of the Mass.

Yet, we have a single, solitary layperson telling us it is a "liturgical abuse"?  I think not.
 
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Anyone else think that livestreaming the Mass is a liturgical abuse?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2021, 04:19:55 PM »
I recall watching the Requiem Mass for Pope Pius XII in 1958, broadcast throughout the world, and it is easily available to watch.  I also found this clip of His Holiness celebrating Mass at St. Peter's Basilica, including the Consecration.

President John Kennedy's Requiem Mass i 1963 was livestreamed.

Several here will remember, from back in the "Fish tank" days, Timothy McCarthy in Chicago, who couldn't always get out to attend the TLM because of health.  When he died on March 20, 2014 the request was made (I presume from the family, I recall seeing it in his obituary on the funeral home web page) to have Masses said for him, and especially at the FSSP parish in Florida whose web casts he watched.  As was mentioned, many traditionalist chapels offer a web cast of the Mass.

Yet, we have a single, solitary layperson telling us it is a "liturgical abuse"?  I think not.

If Fr Jenkins SSPV does it, and so many other faithful priest do too, I think it's fine. It is a fine focus to prayer. Some also have Vespers or Compline, which helps too. A very portion of us are effectively housebound and shut-in now (apparently Wales is effectively banning gardening), so following the Mass and Office liturgy via a livestream is nearly the best most can do. Private prayer with Communion is possible in some places, one or two have defiant priests offering the Mass discreetly like in Penal times, but that's not the Mass either. The focus given by Mass and Office livestream is surely a source of graces.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.