Author Topic: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work  (Read 1036 times)

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« on: December 02, 2020, 10:57:36 PM »
I plan to ask at least a couple trad priests about this, but I would appreciate any feedback.  I have heard that most people on unemployment work "under the table" and don't report their income to the unemployment agency.  A trad friend once suggested he would do it, in his circumstances.  My buddy who lives on my street, a conservative guy, thinks its ok.  My brother-in-law, recently laid off from his vice president of marketing job at a bank, is doing this (teaching business courses online, while sending out resumes).  My guess is 99% of people, including decent conservative Christian types, would be ok with this, and that most never get audited.  But I'm not certain.  I've never considered getting this before, and I don't need the $ to survive.

Here are the circumstances:  certainty of wrongful termination of recent employment, excellent job performance, filed with EEOC/unemployment, reduced from a professional salary down to, for the time being, a lower income doing temporary work as an independent contractor, but 40 hours, I use my own car.  Got a letter last week from unemployment after I filed in September, that they investigated, and ruled in my favor finding no evidence to support the previous employer's written claim for termination (first time in my life).  (edit: since at this point most of the regulars likely read the details of the work place issues, I'm deleting them).

To get compensation ($500/week for 6 months = $13,000) for being terminated without cause, the Employment Security Commission requires I answer "No" to the following question for each week:  "Have you worked this week?"

I've been thinking the answer is obvious, and so I can't click "No," but under the circumstances, could I be justified in using mental reservation to answer "No"?   Their illegal decision cost me at least $500 a week, until I get another job in my field (the market is almost zero right now) so in my mind they owe me that at some point, either now or after EEOC establishes illegal discrimination.  And, I can write off my expenses reducing the taxable income down to zero, so my answer of "No" to "did you work," might be factual in practical, economic terms.  That said, I don't plan to take the $, unless I first inform my conscience with what the Church says.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 06:55:02 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline Stubborn

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 632 times
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 05:49:16 AM »
If you answer Yes, they will ask the amount you were paid, which depending on that amount could either disqualify you, or reduce the amount they will pay you.  Just be honest, heck, you said you don't need the money to survive anyhow so don't let it concern you - give thanks to God that He got you out of your job with the perverts and move on.

FWIW, I am an independent contractor whose income was seriously reduced after the 1st corona shut down, Michigan let me apply for compensation, which I did, but I got nothing because according to them, I still made too much. I could have easily answered No and easily gotten away with it, heck, that would have given me $600/week extra, but similar to your situation, totally unworthy though I am, God got me out of a terrible work situation some 9 years ago and has taken care of all of my monetary needs since. I have no regrets and nothing on my conscience - as it turned out, I am actually glad I was honset. So imo, you have absolutely no reason whatsoever to answer No and no reason whatsoever to see a priest about it - there's nothing to think about, so long as you're honest.  Right?
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent
 
The following users thanked this post: Daniel, Elizabeth.2

Offline Daniel

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3175
  • Thanked: 843 times
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2020, 08:59:50 AM »
.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 09:09:27 AM by Daniel »
 

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2020, 10:00:44 AM »
Thanks, both of you make sense.  I havenít filed each week up to this point because, besides the uncertainty of whether or not Iíd be approved in the first place and not wanting to sit back on my haunches and wait not working, my conscience tells me I would have to report the contract work and $.   But I want to make sure to avoid losing unnecessarily all that needed $ (itís not just to ďsurviveĒ). But take the case of my brother in law. Heís got 4 kids to support, wife not working.  Not reporting his online part time teaching gig work, my guess is heís getting maybe upwards of $5k a month unemployment, X 6 months is $30k.  Otherwise heís probably only making $2500/mo doing gig work.   As of now, itís more like $7500/month total, ie unemployment plus unreported income.    Bottom line is not even a venial sin would be justified for the $, so my position is I most probably could not withhold the information.  Crazy the world we live in.  Most people get ahead in part by what they think are just small acts of dishonesty. When odds are itís really ďgrave matter.Ē 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 10:07:51 AM by christulsa »
 

Offline Normandt

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 244
  • Thanked: 54 times
    • Forum Catholique Jťsus est Seigneur French-English  Books.
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2020, 12:13:23 PM »
I guess we would really need to know all about this story.
What is really honest or not honest?
Then again, difficult to know.

Here's my take:

When does venial sin end and mortal sin begin?

What is the fine line between both?

We truly donít know.   :)

I came to the conclusion that the tiniest sin, we need to be aware of it,
because it could dig roots in and become a bigger one.

Which brings to this other conclusion: we are all sinners.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 12:21:49 PM by Normandt »
God says : I Love you
___

Thank you Lord for Loving me
and thanks for your Love
passing through me
into others hearts.
 

Offline Normandt

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 244
  • Thanked: 54 times
    • Forum Catholique Jťsus est Seigneur French-English  Books.
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2020, 12:20:28 PM »
Another thing, let's meditate on Martha a little.

Martha want's Jesus to decide for her
when she tells him that Mary, her sister, is not doing anything.
We sometime look at others too, and compare.

Jesus responded: "She's chosen the greater part"

So Jesus is not interested in our difficulties with others.

What he's really saying to Martha is not that there's something wrong with her work,
but does she have Jesus with her while she's working?
If she had Jesus with her, she wouldn't be picking on Mary.

So, am I really with Jesus? That's the question.

If I am, he will take good care of me and my needs.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 01:17:57 PM by Normandt »
God says : I Love you
___

Thank you Lord for Loving me
and thanks for your Love
passing through me
into others hearts.
 

Offline james03

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9589
  • Thanked: 4042 times
  • The Brutal Clarity of a Winter Morning
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2020, 04:52:59 PM »
This is a very tough one.

You were paid less each paycheck to fund your unemployment.  You were fired for evidently bogus reasons and the gov ruled in your favor.  Now to support yourself you need the unemployment, plus some side gig shekels until you find another decent job.  So from one perspective you should take what is rightly your due.

On the other hand, you have to lie to get it.  And we know that you aren't supposed to lie.  But you are lying to thieves who run a bogus unemployment scam that takes your money and gives it to bums who can easily live on $500/wk, while you have to also work a side gig at lower wages just to live.

My view is I'd have no problems taking the money which I had paid into and work a side gig.  I don't see any sin in that.  It's the lying part that throws a wrench in the works.  As Ayn Rand predicted our society would devolve to where good people are punished, the more you work the more you get punished, and the bums get rewarded.

$500/week is a good deal of shekels.  My recommendations:
1.  Talk to a good priest.
2.  Quit the side hussle, take the unemployment money, and spend all day looking for work.  And that's a hard recommendation for me to make.  Hopefully the priest can give you better advice.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"
 
The following users thanked this post: christulsa

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2020, 09:36:39 PM »
Appreciate that.  A year ago for every therapist there were several jobs.  Walk in the door, odds are the job is yours.  Great job outlook in the past.  Should still be, but not right now.  Medicare cut reimbursement 15%, in some cases 25%, largely because of all the Medicare fraud, abuse, neglect, and incompetence not uncommon in my field, the kind that reared its ugly head in my last position.  Now itís extremely competitive.  I graduated top of my class, have excellent clinical references, but now I have a termination on my job record, unless I just donít put that job on my app, so Iím uncompetitive.  I apply for most jobs available, mostly on Indeed, and I can see on the site that on average 10 people apply for the same position.  Basically now because of the gay mafia I walked into, when I took that job, Iím out in the cold financially for God knows when.  Had one interview only since September.  The interviewer said he thought my market wonít normalize for 2 more years.  Before Iíd start applying and within a couple weeks I had a job.  Almost all PT jobs are on Indeed or Monster.  2 jobs appear weekly if that, and I usually apply however much I donít prefer the sub-area.  I prefer skilled nursing rehab or home health, most demanding clinically plus highest paying. Though Iím sure thereís some opportunities out there in far rural areas through word of mouth.

I make $800/week, 40 hours, so just $500 unemployment is a pay cut. Plus we were about to buy a house before, so I need to keep showing income to get a house in the near future.  That is a primary goal right now. 

This leaves me at the moment with one opportunity, most realistically, in the months ahead.  And that is to start my own PT business.  Ironically it gives me the best odds to make bank.  I do have a CDL and could learn a different trade, but my best bet at my age, considering the past discrimination, for being an actual hard working, professional, team player, but because Iím a conservative man in a field dominated by feminists and airheads, is to ďgo my own way.Ē
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 09:41:30 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline Stubborn

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1202
  • Thanked: 632 times
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2020, 06:46:38 AM »
If I may make a suggestion, pray to St. John the Baptist who knew exactly what his vocation was from early childhood and can help you with your work and/or life's vocation. Fr. Wathen also says that as Christ went into the desert and fasted 40 days and nights in preparation for what He was about to undergo, in like manner, he recommends that young people discerning a serious life  event or vocation go on a retreat to help them discern and/or prepare. Makes sense to me.

Not sure but it seems you're plenty young enough, so that helps for you to adapt to whatever career, depending on your monetary needs of course. But being a conservative man in a field dominated by feminists and airheads, even going your own way, isn't that still likely to keep you situated among, or to some extent saturated with the perverts?   
 
 
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent
 

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2020, 09:41:10 AM »
If I may make a suggestion, pray to St. John the Baptist who knew exactly what his vocation was from early childhood and can help you with your work and/or life's vocation. Fr. Wathen also says that as Christ went into the desert and fasted 40 days and nights in preparation for what He was about to undergo, in like manner, he recommends that young people discerning a serious life  event or vocation go on a retreat to help them discern and/or prepare. Makes sense to me.

Not sure but it seems you're plenty young enough, so that helps for you to adapt to whatever career, depending on your monetary needs of course. But being a conservative man in a field dominated by feminists and airheads, even going your own way, isn't that still likely to keep you situated among, or to some extent saturated with the perverts?   
 

Iím 45, and not a young man anymore.  Youthful, but middle age.  So no more ďcareerĒ vocations for me.  But yes, Iíll try and go on a little retreat Fri and Sat out at Clear Creek to pray about this, since Iím taking this week off care of the Gay Mafia (ie unemployment $).  But Iíll do whatever is most prudent year to year to put as much meat on the table until my last dying breath.  Iíve already changed career paths over the years several times, at this point Iím probably beyond going back to school again, except short term term.  Iíll keep applying for therapy jobs indefinitely, keep doing the side contract work, but also try and start a business. And why not??  The gig work is easy and I set my own schedule, which frees me up mentally right now to pull the trigger and do it.  Im willing to work 60-80 hours/week to make it happen, plugging away one step at a time.  Iíve already started, doing a lot of research and reading, and asking guys I know with their own business for advise.   I wonít hire degenerates or misandrists.  Iíll weed them out.  Would search online for trad therapist men (wouldnít be hard to find, including SSPXers).  I can start solo, teaching online PT continuing education courses, have them teach as well remotely. Market the site, get approved my medical boards. Iím qualified for that, plus am a dynamic teacher.  May not make six figures, but I can compete. Higher quality content at a lower price, delivered in an more personable, customer service format.  When it makes $, put more of it back into starting a business providing therapy in nursing homes, the Catholic way.  Thereís a lot of rural nursing homes within driving distance with no therapy department, but an instant supply of patients.  Most nursing home rehab departments are run in a shady way, by a national rehab corporation, overseen by a regional manager remotely usually in another state as well, each local department having little oversight to behave as they please.  Iíd keep my company local and directly oversee each department in person, but hire only very ethical and professional therapists.   Itís relatively easy to start.  Convert a couple empty patient rooms in the back of the facility into an office an therapy room. Just need a few laptops and minimal equipment to start.  And if that succeeds, also do the online teaching on the side, which can be somewhat passive income once all the courses are pre-recorded.   The third idea down the road, which I recently talked to a potential investor (former patient of who owns a biotech company) about, is to develop technology to teach Parkinsonís patients how to use musical and other cues to improve their walking, and prolong their life and quality of life.  He encouraged me to start my own business, and is interested in investing.  A ton of research shows music dramatically improves their walking, but practically no one is tapping into this or developing the technology in the industry.  Just a few are trying on a small scale, like in Europe.  Iíve had near miraculous results with PD patients, and other neuro patients.  I would have to combine all the recommendations from published PT science literature, create an initial clinical protocol (likely need another therapist to help, but my wife is a PT so she can help), do a clinical trial for a few months, when it works publish the results somewhere and, based on the protocol, have an app designer design with us a program to teach walking training in a clinical way, using music and other cues, which would be used in VR or augmented reality smart glasses and/or iPod, which the latest research indicates. But no one is doing this anywhere, except a flopped attempt at a university in Canada a few years back by a kinesiologist who wasnít clinically trained in gait training (as I am).   The positive outcomes are literally greater than using dopamine.  But thatís more of a dream project I think about once in a while.

So no, no more ďcareersĒ for me.  :).   But feedback appreciated.  Ok time to wake up the Mrs., go eat breakfast, and then trout fishing! 

http://www.roaringriverstatepark.org/roaringriver/index.jsp

« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 10:02:31 AM by christulsa »
 
The following users thanked this post: Stubborn, Lynne

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2020, 06:23:38 PM »
Talked to my trad pastor/confessor today. He confirmed there's no way I can not tell the gov't about the temporary "gig" work while collecting unemployment.  He agreed the $ is owed to me, but to get it would mean a lie. 

But I am enjoying this week off, and will take one more week off after Christmas, care of the Gay Mafia. 
 

Offline FaithByProxy

  • +JMJ+
  • Mary Garden
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 33 times
  • Crux Sacra Sit Mihi Lux
    • Morning Star Goods, My Rosary Store
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2020, 11:10:57 AM »
christulsa, is the physical therapy industry really that bad? I had considered getting into it when my children are older as I love helping people and it seems like a rewarding field, but I didn't know about the culture around it.
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Morning Star Goods, My Rosary and Chaplet Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/MorningStarGoods
 

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2020, 12:04:55 PM »
christulsa, is the physical therapy industry really that bad? I had considered getting into it when my children are older as I love helping people and it seems like a rewarding field, but I didn't know about the culture around it.

Just saw this.

The PT field is very much a mixed bag.  Some places are better than others. Many are unacceptable IMO, due to unethical behavior/fraud.   Youíre better off with Catholic hospitals, and locally owned, family run clinics.  As a woman you already have an advantage because most are women.  There are plenty of therapists that arenít rabid feminist types, but those types tend to be in management.  They can be a problem if the company is unethical and you arenít.  People who go into therapy tend to be very casual types, which helps because therapy by nature canít very rigid, itís like taming a wild horse.  Which takes a lot of patience and social skill. You need to be very flexible, fluid, and ready to shift your approach with each patient if you want them to reach their physical goals.  But in that subculture, thereís a big segment (50% or more), that treats PT like itís just hanging out at the gym looking at your phone all day chatting and not working.  Without professional supervision, thatís a breeding ground for wasting time, lying and cheating.

A year ago Medicare cut reimbursement to physical therapy by 10%, and another 15% for PTAs, because of the endless decades long tug off war over fraud and improper, ineffective treatments, so itís close to a 25% cut.  Hence the massive layoffs/hiring freezes right now.  You might consider PTA if/when the field normalizes, which it should to take care of the baby boomers; a PTA is the practical equivalent of a PT except they donít do typically do the Evals (but they perform the same tests as ďassessmentsĒ), though they can do most of the Eval like right now during covid.  Itís about 20% less pay, but itís a 2 yr inexpensive degree vs the required doctorate for PTs (80k student loan at least).   When a person gets physical therapy, odds are high itís from a PTA.  Itís analogous to a PA working under supervision of an MD, in that the PTA does most everything a PT typically does.  They are professional clinicians that practice physical therapy, but under supervision. You can make really great $ as a part time contract PTA, $40-$50/hour, especially in nursing home rehab and home health. 

Anyways, pm me if you want more info. I had an interview today with a small town home health agency that sounded very conservative, ethical.  Prayers.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 12:59:20 PM by christulsa »
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Maximilian, Michael Wilson

Offline Michael Wilson

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8325
  • Thanked: 6746 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2020, 07:10:25 PM »
 :pray2:
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3609
  • Thanked: 2076 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need Advise (and Prayers) on a Moral Question about Work
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2020, 07:31:57 PM »
Deo gracias.  And thanks to St. Joseph.  This week I got a new PT job, doing full-time home health in a rural area. 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 10:49:52 PM by christulsa »
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaesekopf, Non Nobis, Stubborn, Lynne, james03, Michael Wilson