Author Topic: The importance of teaching children that the Novus Ordo is bad.  (Read 3726 times)

Offline mikemac

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Re: The importance of teaching children that sedes are not Catholic.
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2020, 10:10:49 PM »
As it stands just you and Daniel have a problem with the Rosary.

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary? I have said nothing against it.

It's just Daniel then?  So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary?

So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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Offline GiftOfGod

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Re: The importance of teaching children that sedes are not Catholic.
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2020, 10:19:46 PM »
As it stands just you and Daniel have a problem with the Rosary.

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary? I have said nothing against it.

It's just Daniel then?  So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary?

So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

I'll answer your questions after you answer mine.
 

Offline mikemac

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Re: The importance of teaching children that sedes are not Catholic.
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2020, 10:51:50 PM »
As it stands just you and Daniel have a problem with the Rosary.

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary? I have said nothing against it.

It's just Daniel then?  So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary?

So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

I'll answer your questions after you answer mine.

Because you gave the impression that you do.  It wasn't just me that thought that.  See replies #50 and #51.

So you have abandoned Daniel after you got him fired up?

Two questions.

Are you just here to cause trouble?

Three.

Like a troll?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 10:55:04 PM by mikemac »
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

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Offline GiftOfGod

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Re: The importance of teaching children that sedes are not Catholic.
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2020, 02:44:14 AM »
As it stands just you and Daniel have a problem with the Rosary.

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary? I have said nothing against it.

It's just Daniel then?  So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

What makes you think I have a problem with the Rosary?

So you have abandoned him after you got him fired up?

I'll answer your questions after you answer mine.

Because you gave the impression that you do.  It wasn't just me that thought that.  See replies #50 and #51.

So you have abandoned Daniel after you got him fired up?

Two questions.

Are you just here to cause trouble?

Three.

Like a troll?


I'll answer your questions after you answer mine.
 

Offline Non Nobis

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2020, 04:31:32 AM »
Mikemac, who changed the title of this thread at least for a while to "The importance of teaching children that sedes are not Catholic"? That was a rather troll-ish thing to do. Start another thread yourself (maybe in the Sedevacantist sub-forum). This thread has deteriorated into a you-answer-first/No-you-answer-first ongoing exchange that looks, um, silly. Mikemac I don't like GiftOfGod in every way (just as you don't approve of me in every way) but it seems like you are trying to provoke the worst in him.

Daniel said "I'm with GiftOfGod" but really his problems with the Rosary - that maybe it is a tool of the Devil - went beyond what GoG said.  GoG brought up the fact that it is not in general a regular devotion in the Eastern Rite (except where Trads escape to Eastern Rite churches).  That doesn't prove they are having a "problem" with the Rosary.  (I did know one uneducated Eastern Rite Catholic who hated trads in the Church and did say terrible things about the Rosary, but he was an exception)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 05:08:21 AM by Non Nobis »
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[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

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Offline Daniel

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2020, 07:56:56 AM »
I don't think GiftOfGod got me "fired up". I was only agreeing with him about the Sister Lucia quote (and, way earlier, about the fact that sedevacantists are not not-Catholic).

The reason I say that the rosary might be from the devil is because the rosary in some respects appears to be from the devil. What part of that don't you understand?

I never said the rosary is bad or that it's from the devil. What I said was, I don't have all the information to make a definitive judgement. On one hand it looks bad. On the other hand it looks like the Church endorses it. Obviously it's not both. And if the Church doesn't endorse it, who is to say that it's not bad or even from the devil?

I'll also point out, the fact that the Church seems to endorse it could in great part be due to the fact that trad priests are constantly trying to shove it down everybody's throat, acting as if the Church requires us to pray the rosary daily when the Church requires no such thing. Sure, when questionioned they'll probably tell you that you're free not to. But nevertheless, they act like it's Church teaching that the rosary is the second greatest prayer ever and that we must all pray it every day, just because our Lady seems to have requested it at Fatima. (Which is strange, seeing as not all trad priests are even on-board with Fatima. I believe Archbishop Lefebvre himself was critical of this idea that we should focus so much on Fatima.) I can't tell if it's the Church who endorses it, or if only these priests are the ones endorse it. If priests would just teach what the Church has always taught and stop introducing or promote novelties then this would hardly be an issue.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 08:25:54 AM by Daniel »
 

Online Stubborn

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2020, 08:59:30 AM »
I don't think GiftOfGod got me "fired up". I was only agreeing with him about the Sister Lucia quote (and, way earlier, about the fact that sedevacantists are not not-Catholic).

The reason I say that the rosary might be from the devil is because the rosary in some respects appears to be from the devil. What part of that don't you understand?

I never said the rosary is bad or that it's from the devil. What I said was, I don't have all the information to make a definitive judgement. On one hand it looks bad. On the other hand it looks like the Church endorses it. Obviously it's not both. And if the Church doesn't endorse it, who is to say that it's not bad or even from the devil?

I'll also point out, the fact that the Church seems to endorse it could in great part be due to the fact that trad priests are constantly trying to shove it down everybody's throat, acting as if the Church requires us to pray the rosary daily when the Church requires no such thing. Sure, when questionioned they'll probably tell you that you're free not to. But nevertheless, they act like it's Church teaching that the rosary is the second greatest prayer ever and that we must all pray it every day, just because our Lady seems to have requested it at Fatima. (Which is strange, seeing as not all trad priests are even on-board with Fatima. I believe Archbishop Lefebvre himself was critical of this idea that we should focus so much on Fatima.) I can't tell if it's the Church who endorses it, or if only these priests are the ones endorse it. If priests would just teach what the Church has always taught and stop introducing or promote novelties then this would hardly be an issue.

This ^^^ is simply pitiful for anyone to say who claims the name Catholic.

Every October 7th since it was instituted by Pope St. Pius V, the Church celebrates the feast of The Blessed Virgin Mary of the Rosary.

In the description for this mass in my Missal, it says:
"Tradition tells us that the Mother of God appeared to St. Dominic, and asked him to propagate the devotion of the holy rosary as a powerful means of combating error and vice. The decisive victory of the Christians at the battle of Lepanto in 1571 prompted Pope Pius V to institute this feast and to decree that the Blessed Virgin Mary be invoked as "Help of Christians."

I could go on and on about how the Church values and promotes the daily recitation of the rosary and how precious praying the Rosary is to Our Blessed Mother, and why She loves it so much, and about the graces and heavenly benefits we get by praying many rosaries every day, but I won't waste either of our time.

 
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Offline Daniel

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2020, 01:39:53 PM »
I don't think GiftOfGod got me "fired up". I was only agreeing with him about the Sister Lucia quote (and, way earlier, about the fact that sedevacantists are not not-Catholic).

The reason I say that the rosary might be from the devil is because the rosary in some respects appears to be from the devil. What part of that don't you understand?

I never said the rosary is bad or that it's from the devil. What I said was, I don't have all the information to make a definitive judgement. On one hand it looks bad. On the other hand it looks like the Church endorses it. Obviously it's not both. And if the Church doesn't endorse it, who is to say that it's not bad or even from the devil?

I'll also point out, the fact that the Church seems to endorse it could in great part be due to the fact that trad priests are constantly trying to shove it down everybody's throat, acting as if the Church requires us to pray the rosary daily when the Church requires no such thing. Sure, when questionioned they'll probably tell you that you're free not to. But nevertheless, they act like it's Church teaching that the rosary is the second greatest prayer ever and that we must all pray it every day, just because our Lady seems to have requested it at Fatima. (Which is strange, seeing as not all trad priests are even on-board with Fatima. I believe Archbishop Lefebvre himself was critical of this idea that we should focus so much on Fatima.) I can't tell if it's the Church who endorses it, or if only these priests are the ones endorse it. If priests would just teach what the Church has always taught and stop introducing or promote novelties then this would hardly be an issue.

This ^^^ is simply pitiful for anyone to say who claims the name Catholic.

Every October 7th since it was instituted by Pope St. Pius V, the Church celebrates the feast of The Blessed Virgin Mary of the Rosary.

In the description for this mass in my Missal, it says:
"Tradition tells us that the Mother of God appeared to St. Dominic, and asked him to propagate the devotion of the holy rosary as a powerful means of combating error and vice. The decisive victory of the Christians at the battle of Lepanto in 1571 prompted Pope Pius V to institute this feast and to decree that the Blessed Virgin Mary be invoked as "Help of Christians."

I could go on and on about how the Church values and promotes the daily recitation of the rosary and how precious praying the Rosary is to Our Blessed Mother, and why She loves it so much, and about the graces and heavenly benefits we get by praying many rosaries every day, but I won't waste either of our time.

And so I said it appears that the Church endorses the rosary.
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2020, 01:43:51 PM »
I never said the rosary is bad or that it's from the devil. What I said was, I don't have all the information to make a definitive judgement. On one hand it looks bad. On the other hand it looks like the Church endorses it. Obviously it's not both. And if the Church doesn't endorse it, who is to say that it's not bad or even from the devil?

Neither as a human being nor as a Catholic should you concern yourself with "definitive judgments" about Catholic spirituality.  We're talking about Catholic spirituality here -- you know, prayer -- not Working Drawings for a contractor to add a second story to a house (which, if he doesn't follow to the letter, the addition may collapse and kill people), or critical information for the Department of Defense.  If you, individually, need to be "sure" of everything, then there is no way you can be "sure" of the existence of God, either. He doesn't ask for that, and for most of us, He's not going to give us that special privilege, either, because that is the whole point of faith. Faith is belief in things unseen and "unverifiable."

Quote
I'll also point out, the fact that the Church seems to endorse it could in great part be due to the fact that trad priests are constantly trying to shove it down everybody's throat, acting as if the Church requires us to pray the rosary daily when the Church requires no such thing.

"Shove it down our throat" is strong language.  Make an appointment with a trad priest, please -- not about the rosary but about the fact that the devil is manipulating the heck out of your scruples.
 
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Offline Daniel

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2020, 02:03:12 PM »
I never said the rosary is bad or that it's from the devil. What I said was, I don't have all the information to make a definitive judgement. On one hand it looks bad. On the other hand it looks like the Church endorses it. Obviously it's not both. And if the Church doesn't endorse it, who is to say that it's not bad or even from the devil?

Neither as a human being nor as a Catholic should you concern yourself with "definitive judgments" about Catholic spirituality.  We're talking about Catholic spirituality here -- you know, prayer -- not Working Drawings for a contractor to add a second story to a house (which, if he doesn't follow to the letter, the addition may collapse and kill people), or critical information for the Department of Defense.  If you, individually, need to be "sure" of everything, then there is no way you can be "sure" of the existence of God, either. He doesn't ask for that, and for most of us, He's not going to give us that special privilege, either, because that is the whole point of faith. Faith is belief in things unseen and "unverifiable."

Ok, but, practically speaking, shouldn't prayer be a means to union with God? If a particular prayer causes us to hate God and to become lazy in our prayer life and to despair, why should we be praying it? It's not like the rosary is an end in itself or something, and I doubt our praying it pleases God if we do so while simultaneously hating Him.

Quote
Quote
I'll also point out, the fact that the Church seems to endorse it could in great part be due to the fact that trad priests are constantly trying to shove it down everybody's throat, acting as if the Church requires us to pray the rosary daily when the Church requires no such thing.

"Shove it down our throat" is strong language.  Make an appointment with a trad priest, please -- not about the rosary but about the fact that the devil is manipulating the heck out of your scruples.

I'm not sure it's scruples, but the devil probably has something to do with it. And I think you're right, but at the moment I can't find even one trad priest who can help.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 02:08:35 PM by Daniel »
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: The importance of teaching children that the Novus Ordo is bad.
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2020, 03:00:01 PM »
It's definitely scruples....no doubt.
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2020, 03:47:05 PM »

I'm not sure it's scruples, but the devil probably has something to do with it. And I think you're right, but at the moment I can't find even one trad priest who can help.


Many of us are having the same problem regarding the availability of trad priests, but I shall definitely add you -- yes, to my rosary.
 :)
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: The importance of teaching children that WHAT? Who changed this?
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2020, 03:52:53 PM »

I'm not sure it's scruples, but the devil probably has something to do with it. And I think you're right, but at the moment I can't find even one trad priest who can help.


Many of us are having the same problem regarding the availability of trad priests, but I shall definitely add you -- yes, to my rosary.
 :)

Me too.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
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Offline queen.saints

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Re: The importance of teaching children that the Novus Ordo is bad.
« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2020, 02:27:45 PM »
On the original topic: it’s important to teach this to children while they are still quite young. I know a young man who started going exclusively to the Latin Mass from the age of 7 and for the next 15 years you’d have thought he was totally against the Novus Ordo, but deep in his heart he still held attachment to his early childhood memories at his old parish. His sibling who was just a few years younger never had this issue- through no personal merit- it was just that all their happy childhood memories involved the Latin Mass and they could never imagine going to Novus Ordo; it repulses them.
 
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Offline jc176

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Re: The importance of teaching children that the Novus Ordo is bad.
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2020, 12:57:13 PM »
Better, rather, to teach them the Faith, and make sure they "know their stuff", as opposed to teaching them the ins and outs of the lacking of the NO.

Well, that's the issue isn't it?  Liturgy is the highest form of catechesis so right off knowing the Faith and knowing the 'ins and outs' of liturgy are tied together. What is the NO producing as opposed to the TLM? I'm thinking your typical liberal 'devout Catholic' (Biden, Pelosi, etc.) is NO if they attend regularly at all.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 01:03:02 PM by jc176 »