Author Topic: mental prayer and salvation  (Read 480 times)

Offline Iamchristian

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mental prayer and salvation
« on: November 11, 2020, 03:59:35 AM »
I have heard that there can be no salvation without mental prayer. It might have been Alphonsus Liguori who are supposed to have said that.
Does traditional Catholicism teach that? What does it mean on a practical level? Is this something that the Priests and Deacons do not speak about nowadays at most parishes?

 

Offline Iamchristian

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2020, 04:00:01 AM »
...
 

Offline Stubborn

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2020, 05:42:09 AM »
Fr. Hesse talks a little about it starting at about 6:30 and goes for the next few minutes.


Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2020, 12:42:10 PM »
Fr. Ripperger also says in his audio sermons that salvation is not possible without mental prayer.

This link is a good place to start.  You might find it in the section titled "Spiritual Life."
http://sensustraditionis.org/multimedia/sermons/

or (same website) at this link:
http://sensustraditionis.org/multimedia/conferences/

Spiritual Growth, Spiritual Theology, Holiness, Impediments to Holiness: those are where I would look first in the latter link, but he sometimes also makes comments about the spiritual life in general and our personal salvation, when he talks about Spiritual Warfare.
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2020, 03:10:37 PM »
In a video by one of the Fatima Center priests that I watched a couple of months ago he said we have to do mental prayer.

I have found that praying a Scriptural Rosary stops my mind from wondering and helps me meditate on the mysteries.

https://www.rosarycenter.org/homepage-2/rosary/how-to-pray-the-rosary/
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2020, 05:49:36 PM »
I would agree that mental prayer is very useful for the spiritual life;highly recommended by all spiritual writers; yet there are some people who don't practice it and yet practice the faith; don't commit Mortal sins but who only practice vocal prayers. So the answer is "No".
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2020, 06:12:21 PM »
I was just reading this last night from the Writings of St. Louis Marie de Montfort - Secret of the Rosary.

http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/ASR.php#Rose42

Quote
Forty-second Rose

 In order to pray well, it is not enough to give expression to our petitions by means of that most excellent of all prayers, the Rosary, but we must also pray with great attention, for God listens more to the voice of the heart than that of the mouth. To be guilty of wilful distractions during prayer would show a great lack of respect and reverence; it would make our Rosaries unfruitful and make us guilty of sin.

How can we expect God to listen to us if we ourselves do not pay attention to what we are saying? How can we expect him to be pleased if, while in the presence of his tremendous majesty, we give in to distractions, like a child running after a butterfly? People who do that forfeit God's blessing, which is changed into a curse for having treated the things of God disrespectfully: "Cursed be the one who does God's work negligently." Jer. 48:10.

120. Of course, you cannot say your Rosary without having a few involuntary distractions; it is even difficult to say a Hail Mary without your imagination troubling you a little, for it is never still; but you can say it without voluntary distractions, and you must take all sorts of precautions to lessen involuntary distractions and to control your imagination.

To do this, put yourself in the presence of God and imagine that God and his Blessed Mother are watching you, and that your guardian angel is at your right hand, taking your Hail Marys, if they are well said, and using them like roses to make crowns for Jesus and Mary. But remember that at your left hand is the devil, ready to pounce on every Hail Mary that comes his way and to write it down in his book of death, if they are not said with attention, devotion, and reverence. Above all, do not fail to offer up each decade in honour of one of the mysteries, and try to form a picture in your mind of Jesus and Mary in connection with that mystery.

121. We read in the life of Blessed Hermann of the Order of the Premonstratensians, that at one time when he used to say the Rosary attentively and devoutly while meditating on the mysteries, our Lady used to appear to him resplendent in breathtaking majesty and beauty. But, as time went on, his fervour cooled and he fell into the way of saying his Rosary hurriedly and without giving it his full attention. Then one day our Lady appeared to him again, but this time she was far from beautiful, and her face was furrowed and drawn with sadness. Blessed Hermann was appalled at the change in her, and our Lady explained, "This is how I look to you, Hermann, because this is how you are treating me; as a woman to be despised and of no importance. Why do you no longer greet me with respect and attention while meditating on my mysteries and praising my privileges?"
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
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Offline Ascetik

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2020, 10:07:29 AM »
You'll never advance to the later stages of prayer without, you'll always roughly stay in the 1st-3rd mansions of the spiritual life. Mental prayer is nothing more than an interior recollection and conversation with God. It can seem difficult for a lot of people because they're not "doing" something, that is, moving their mouths, but this is not really what prayer is. Prayer is lifting the heart and the mind to God. If we want to advance spiritually we really should be doing mental prayer everyday.
 

Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2020, 07:31:07 PM »
I'm so scrupled out on this topic, chaotic.   Father said it's okay if I use painting as mental prayer, but I think I still do it wrong.
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2020, 06:18:49 PM »
I'm so scrupled out on this topic, chaotic.   Father said it's okay if I use painting as mental prayer, but I think I still do it wrong.
St. Teresa of Avila stated that mental prayer doesn't essentially consist in a lot of thinking, but in loving our Lord. So don't get hung up on methods and procedures.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline FamilyRosary

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2020, 03:24:10 AM »
I would think that just concentrating on and saying with love the vocal prayers we already say would constitute mental prayer, or at least would be a good start.

That's what St. Teresa de Avila did with the Our Father.

I pray the rosary with the second method of St. Louis de Montfort, and that helps me focus on the mystery I'm reciting and pray for the grace to imitate Christ and His Mother. I also dedicate the rosary before beginning it and sometimes I reread the scriptural passages associated with the mysteries before or during my recitiation.

I dialogue with God when I'm recalling my sins before praying the Act of Contrition each night, and I make specific requests to Mary when I finish the Memorare. I have images of the Sacred Heart and a crucifix over my bed and I meditate on them when I say my morning and evening prayers and especially the Prayer Before a  Crucifix. Those are very simple things, nothing fancy or profound, but I believe they do constitute mental prayer, and I'm pretty sure we are all doing those things or similar ones already.
The family that prays together stays together.
 
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Offline nmoerbeek

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Re: mental prayer and salvation
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2020, 07:57:07 PM »
I have heard that there can be no salvation without mental prayer. It might have been Alphonsus Liguori who are supposed to have said that.
Does traditional Catholicism teach that? What does it mean on a practical level? Is this something that the Priests and Deacons do not speak about nowadays at most parishes?

It is important to remember that Saints often times spoken directionally.  Children are saved all the time without having ever done mental prayer by nature of their baptism. So it is not in a sense neccessary.  However, it is not possible once we come into some measure of understanding to be saved unless we at some point start seeking God with our whole heart .  Prayer and that of a personal kind that comes from the heart, also called mental prayer, is really obedience to the first and greatest commandment (St. Matthew 22:37, St. Luke 10:27).

It is important to remember that some Saints and authors really mean meditation that means imagining or pondering certain mysteries of the faith as a subject, and their remarks should be viewed as I said above as directional speaking.  We must seek God with our whole heart, however that does not necessarily mean we must adopt the preferred method or technique proposed of certain holy authors.



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