Author Topic: God rejected Jewish temple sacrifices from the Crucifixion to A.D. 70  (Read 151 times)

Offline Santantonio

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The Talmud Confirms Jesus Christ

The Talmud witnesses about the extraordinary and Earth shatteringly significant event, which did indeed occur around the time of 30 A.D.

In the centuries that followed the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., Jewish rabbis worked to compile two records of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs, and history.

The first was compiled in the land of Palestine and became known as the Jerusalem Talmud.

The second was compiled in the land of Babylon and was known as the Babylonian Talmud.

The Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud contain a description of amazing and extraordinary miracles from the the time of Jesus Christ.

During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the lot for the Lord did not come up in the right hand - it always came up in the left hand of the High Priest.

Nor did the crimson-colored strap become white, but it remained crimson.

The doors of the Temple would open by themselves.

They would close the doors of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open.

There were actually four miracles.

The miracle of the lot, the miracle of the crimson strip, the miracle of the Temple doors, and the miracle of the Temple Menorah.

The miracle of the lot concerns a random choosing of the "lot" which was cast on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur).

The lot chosen determined which of two goats would be "for the Lord" and which goat would be the "Azazel" or "scapegoat".

During the two hundred years before 30 A.D., when the High Priest picked one of two stones - this selection was governed by chance - each year the Priest would select a black stone as often as a white stone.

But for forty years in a row, beginning in 30 A.D., the High Priest always picked the black stone!

The odds against this happening are astronomical.

The chances of this occurring are 1 in approximately 5.479.548.800 or about 5.5 billion to one.

The lot for the scapegoat Azazel, the black stone, contrary to all the laws of chance, came up 40 times in a row from 30 to 70 A.D.

This casting of lots is also accompanied by yet another miracle - the miracle of the crimson strip.

A crimson strip or cloth was tied to the Azazel goat.

A portion of this crimson cloth was also removed from the goat and tied to the Temple door.

Each year the crimson cloth on the Temple door turned white as if to signify the atonement of another Yom Kippur was acceptable to the Lord.

This annual event happened until 30 A.D. when the cloth then remained crimson each year to the time of the Temple's destruction.

This traditional practice is linked to Israel confessing its sins and ceremonially placing the nation's sin upon the Azazel scapegoat.

The sin was then removed by this goat's death.

Sin was represented by the crimson color of the cloth (the color of blood).

But the cloth remained crimson that is, Israel's sins were not being pardoned and "made white".

excerpted from:
https://philipaohlund.blogspot.com/2010/08/talmud-confirms-jesus-christ.html

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Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E.

In the centuries following the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (70 CE), the Jewish people began writing two versions of Jewish thought, religious history and commentary. One was written in Palestine and became known as the Jerusalem Talmud. [see special endnote at the end of this article concerning the Talmud] The other was written in Babylon and was known as the Babylonian Talmud.

We read in the Jerusalem Talmud:

    "Forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open" (Jacob Neusner, The Yerushalmi, p.156-157). [the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE]

A similar passage in the Babylonian Talmud states:

    "Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b).

excerpted from:
http://www.windowview.org/hmny/pgs/talmuds.30ce.html
and
http://www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/evidence.htm

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Extraordinary Extrabiblical Evidence For Jesus Christ From The Jewish Talmud

There is extraordinary evidence in the Jewish Talmud that something incredibly miraculous happened approximately 40 years before the Jewish Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.

The Jewish Talmud actually records four amazing miracles that all began about 40 years before the Temple was finally destroyed.

excerpted from:
http://shatteredparadigm.blogspot.com/2008/12/extraordinary-extrabiblical-evidence.html

Offline KonservativerKatholik

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Re: God rejected Jewish temple sacrifices from the Crucifixion to A.D. 70
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2020, 07:01:56 AM »
Very interesting find! The respective Talmud sections can be found here:
https://www.sefaria.org/Yoma.39b?lang=bi
https://www.sefaria.org/Rosh_Hashanah.31b?lang=bi
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Online Daniel

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Re: God rejected Jewish temple sacrifices from the Crucifixion to A.D. 70
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2020, 09:14:18 AM »
This is all very interesting, but I wonder if it's accurate.

First off, it would indicate (or at least seem to indicate) that Christ was crucified on Friday April 7, A.D. 30 (rather than on Friday April 3, A.D. 33). But A.D. 30 is too early, as Jimmy Akin points out:
- Luke 3:1 indicates that Jesus's public ministry didn't begin until after St. John the Baptist began preaching, which was in the fifteenth year of Tiberius (= A.D. 29), and
- St. John's gospel indicates that Jesus's public ministry lasted for at least 3 years, so the crucifixion would have had to be in A.D. 32 at the earliest, and it would need to be in a year in which Passover falls on a Friday.
The only date that works is Friday April 3, A.D. 33 (and also, I think there was a lunar eclipse in Jerusalem at sundown/moonrise on April 3, A.D. 33, which is fitting).

The A.D. 30 date would be nice, as there'd then be exactly 40 years between the crucifixion and the beginning of the Siege of Jerusalem. But we don't want to choose a date that contradicts Scripture.


Also, looking further into it, I'm not seeing any source for the dates of these miracles. The Talmud says it happened "during the tenure of Shimon HaTzaddik". This wouldn't have been A.D. 30-70. (Recall, the high priest at the time of the crucifixion was Caiphas. And Caiphas's successor was Annas.) Shimon HaTzaddik reigned way back in the second or third century B.C., and I think the 40 years are legendary, not the actual length of his reign. And if the 40 years are an exaggeration, the miracles must also be exaggerated (if not made up completely).

But then again, I don't know much about the Talmud or Jewish history. I suppose I might be overlooking something.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 09:17:11 AM by Daniel »
 
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Offline KonservativerKatholik

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Re: God rejected Jewish temple sacrifices from the Crucifixion to A.D. 70
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 06:43:19 AM »

First off, it would indicate (or at least seem to indicate) that Christ was crucified on Friday April 7, A.D. 30 (rather than on Friday April 3, A.D. 33). But A.D. 30 is too early, as Jimmy Akin points out:
- Luke 3:1 indicates that Jesus's public ministry didn't begin until after St. John the Baptist began preaching, which was in the fifteenth year of Tiberius (= A.D. 29), and
- St. John's gospel indicates that Jesus's public ministry lasted for at least 3 years, so the crucifixion would have had to be in A.D. 32 at the earliest, and it would need to be in a year in which Passover falls on a Friday.
The only date that works is Friday April 3, A.D. 33 (and also, I think there was a lunar eclipse in Jerusalem at sundown/moonrise on April 3, A.D. 33, which is fitting).

The A.D. 30 date would be nice, as there'd then be exactly 40 years between the crucifixion and the beginning of the Siege of Jerusalem. But we don't want to choose a date that contradicts Scripture.

I was wondering about this as well. Some people argue that it could be indeed "3 years off", without contradicting scripture, if one counts the time when Tiberius became co-princeps in 12 AD as the beginning of his reign.
Or a different interpretation: The wonders in the temple could have started at the time when Christ began his public ministry. It makes sense that the holy of holies would be "empty" as the incarnate word of God literally lived among the people.


Also, looking further into it, I'm not seeing any source for the dates of these miracles. The Talmud says it happened "during the tenure of Shimon HaTzaddik". This wouldn't have been A.D. 30-70. (Recall, the high priest at the time of the crucifixion was Caiphas. And Caiphas's successor was Annas.) Shimon HaTzaddik reigned way back in the second or third century B.C., and I think the 40 years are legendary, not the actual length of his reign. And if the 40 years are an exaggeration, the miracles must also be exaggerated (if not made up completely).

So, from what I understand, the first passage of Yoma 39b mentions Simeon the Just and the miracles during his time to contrast them against what was happening after 30 AD. When Simeon was High Priest, on Yom Kippur the lot for God always arose in his right hand. After his death, the priests stopped pronouncing the Tetragrammaton and the lot only occasionally arose in the right hand. After 30 AD the lot always(!) arose in the left hand. Plus, the crimson strip remained crimson, the westernmost lamp of the Menorah went out every night and the temple doors opened by themselves.

The 40 years are mentioned in Rosh Hashana 31b:
And it is taught in a baraita: During the forty years before the Second Temple was destroyed the strip of crimson wool would not turn white; rather, it would turn a deeper shade of red.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 06:47:56 AM by KonservativerKatholik »
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