Author Topic: Church/Covid Vent Thread  (Read 4701 times)

Offline The Theosist

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2020, 12:26:33 PM »
I refuse to "register" at any Mass -- outdoor, indoor, wherever.  That includes the Latin Mass, low or High.  It is unconscionable and an enormous violation of the Gospel and Canon law of the Church to (1) restrict attendance (2) demand names and other identifying information.

Mass is to be an anonymous worship occasion and sacramental occasion. 

I also refuse to attend any Mass where masks are required.  (For all the reasons I've stated elsewhere on SD.)

Early on during the lockdown, I was attending an independent chapel where I still often attend.  In our case, the priest had requested that we all arrive no later than ten minutes before Mass so that we could lock the door from curiosity seekers outside, but that announcement was made in advance. (The Mass was basically by email invitation only, so we were all emailed.)  It had nothing to do with registration, though. We didn't "sign up."  It had only to do with secrecy from the civil authorities. The priest didn't want anyone from the outside reporting on us to civil officials, so that's why the door was locked just before Mass.  I think he's not locking the door now, because the atmosphere in the general public is now more relaxed and less exaggerated/hyped.  Also, the chapel space is very tiny and would not have accommodated more people after the start of Mass.  (We do not distance from each other at all; we are all next to each other in the pews.  People who are too terrified to attend Mass merely don't come, which is always the way it should have been -- for religious institutions, commercial establishments, and schools and colleges.  Deprive yourself of freedom of movement; don't deprive others of their right to make their own healthcare choices.)

Oh -- and regarding money -- I'll contribute when Masses return to normal, that is, my local Latin Mass locations.  As it is, I'm spending a lot of money on gas, having to travel to non-masked Masses and non-registered Masses (etc.), so, sorry, local parish, I'm fresh out of donation money.


Lockdown compliance was the final straw for me and why I'll never be going back. All other things aside, I would never accept that a church which denies Christians the Eucharist in compliance with government orders is the "true church". I would never accept that church which buys hook, line and sinker into an outright lie and one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated by government is divinely guided. A ship of fools is not the ark of salvation.

You sound like William Roper in a Man for all Seasons.


This has nothing to do with cutting down all man's laws, and it's the very opposite of moralising impetuousness. You may as well say the same of the persecuted Chinese Catholics who refuse to obey stupid, immoral and anti-Christ laws. Christ doesn't bow to Satan. Christ doesn't teach worldy wisdom. Christ is not a dupe. If you refuse me the sacraments when their reception is my right, and all the more so when the order comes from a satanic government, you can take a hike. My conscience and intellect simply cannot bend themselves around that like a game of Twister.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 12:30:20 PM by The Theosist »
 
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Online paul14

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2020, 12:29:55 PM »
Well what do you mean by the following then?

Quote
why I'll never be going back
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 11:35:16 PM by paul14 »
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2020, 02:05:48 PM »
I don't know of any traditionalist group that didn't comply to some degree except for possibly SSPX-MC (Resistance) priests. It was varied between SSPX chapels, and Ecclesia Dei orders.

It was funny in my state because the Eastern Rite was the only Church in the entire state to open first, so we just went there.

Compliance has been variable within the various apostolates (FSSP, SSPX, ICKSP), depending on location.  Much of that has to do with how hands-off or hands-on the local bishop is.  Some bishops are looking the other way.  Some bishops have not yet been challenged (but might look the other way, if the apostolate is not complying fully or partly).  Some bishops are control freaks.  Etc.
 

Offline Ascetik

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2020, 02:45:39 PM »
Compliance has been variable within the various apostolates (FSSP, SSPX, ICKSP), depending on location.  Much of that has to do with how hands-off or hands-on the local bishop is.  Some bishops are looking the other way.  Some bishops have not yet been challenged (but might look the other way, if the apostolate is not complying fully or partly).  Some bishops are control freaks.  Etc.

I honestly don't think our bishop cares that much, what he probably cares about is getting annoying Karen snail mail letters from certain people who visit our parish who are Novus Ordo who have nothing better to do than complain. It's a huge problem in FSSP parishes from what I understand. People come to visit, and see something they don't like, or don't understand, and then they write the bishop about it.

What I don't like however, is our FSSP pastor trying to guilt trip us into wearing masks, claiming we're not being obedient. Yeah, duh, we're not being obedient because the bishop has no authority to command we obey this scam. All the science proves that masks don't do jack, all they're trying to do is prevent getting sued in the case that someone lawyers up because they claim they got sick at the parish or some nonsense. It has nothing to do with protecting people's health and never has been, this is clerical scrupulosity under the guise of medical common-good, under the guise of Communist control. It's amazing to me more people cannot see this blatant attempt to dehumanize us. It's one thing if the bishop does it, I kind of understand, because hardly any of them have the faith anyway, but for FSSP priests to just go along with it instead of keeping a hush-hush attitude about it I dunno. I doubt it will be enforced, but it's absolutely ridiculous at this point and I'm sick and tired of it.

None of the servers wear masks, and when we have high mass, none of the servers social distance, they literally sit right next to each other on the benches, most of them are not related family. But us faithful, we have to be six feet apart if you're not in the same family, but you can go outside after mass and socialize in the parking lot and stand 6 inches from someone, no problem.

It's hypocrisy and lunacy for our pastor to reiterate these "directives" from the pulpit.
 
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Offline CF Mathews

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2020, 08:31:41 PM »
What I don't like however, is our FSSP pastor trying to guilt trip us into wearing masks, claiming we're not being obedient. Yeah, duh, we're not being obedient because the bishop has no authority to command we obey this scam. All the science proves that masks don't do jack, all they're trying to do is prevent getting sued in the case that someone lawyers up because they claim they got sick at the parish or some nonsense. It has nothing to do with protecting people's health and never has been, this is clerical scrupulosity under the guise of medical common-good, under the guise of Communist control. It's amazing to me more people cannot see this blatant attempt to dehumanize us.

...not to mention that masks, separation, humiliation and trauma are well-known aspects of occult initiation rituals, mind control techniques and sexual perversion.  We are being initiated into the Brave New World Order, announced by a crying Tom Hanks at the last Golden Globes awards (that's a topic unto itself-I will see about posting that video on a more relevant thread).  These horrors have no place in God's house and we are making our children mentally ill for the rest of their lives...what these covid-fearful people don't realize is that there are some fates worse than death. 

(I will post that video in General News.)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 09:07:19 PM by CF Mathews »
 
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Offline lauermar

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2020, 08:57:15 PM »
I refuse to "register" at any Mass -- outdoor, indoor, wherever.  That includes the Latin Mass, low or High.  It is unconscionable and an enormous violation of the Gospel and Canon law of the Church to (1) restrict attendance (2) demand names and other identifying information.

Mass is to be an anonymous worship occasion and sacramental occasion. 

I also refuse to attend any Mass where masks are required.  (For all the reasons I've stated elsewhere on SD.)

Early on during the lockdown, I was attending an independent chapel where I still often attend.  In our case, the priest had requested that we all arrive no later than ten minutes before Mass so that we could lock the door from curiosity seekers outside, but that announcement was made in advance. (The Mass was basically by email invitation only, so we were all emailed.)  It had nothing to do with registration, though. We didn't "sign up."  It had only to do with secrecy from the civil authorities. The priest didn't want anyone from the outside reporting on us to civil officials, so that's why the door was locked just before Mass.  I think he's not locking the door now, because the atmosphere in the general public is now more relaxed and less exaggerated/hyped.  Also, the chapel space is very tiny and would not have accommodated more people after the start of Mass.  (We do not distance from each other at all; we are all next to each other in the pews.  People who are too terrified to attend Mass merely don't come, which is always the way it should have been -- for religious institutions, commercial establishments, and schools and colleges.  Deprive yourself of freedom of movement; don't deprive others of their right to make their own healthcare choices.)

Oh -- and regarding money -- I'll contribute when Masses return to normal, that is, my local Latin Mass locations.  As it is, I'm spending a lot of money on gas, having to travel to non-masked Masses and non-registered Masses (etc.), so, sorry, local parish, I'm fresh out of donation money.

Same situation with me. A tiny independent Latin mass in Milwaukee which was emailing us days before each mass. We were flying under the radar. We had to park streets away and walk to church so as not to alert authorities.

Everyone fears death more than hell. That, and the Health Department shutting them down.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 09:04:59 PM by lauermar »
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2020, 08:04:14 AM »
The Society near me has a register for Mass form online. I don't want to divulge too much online, other than the environment was not masky.

There must be more Father Nolans. Speak out and call it what it is.
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2020, 08:48:18 AM »
The Society near me has a register for Mass form online. I don't want to divulge too much online, other than the environment was not masky.

There must be more Father Nolans. Speak out and call it what it is.

Do people go along with this monstrous imposition?

Registering online to attend Mass = putting your name on yet another list.

Madness.... 
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
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Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Ascetik

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2020, 11:22:58 AM »
Do people go along with this monstrous imposition?

Registering online to attend Mass = putting your name on yet another list.

Madness....

In fairness, this could be easily done on a private server without the government or commies having access to it. Just cause there is a list somewhere doesn't mean nefarious parties have access to it.
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2020, 11:35:04 AM »
Isn't compliance mandatory? The Church says that we are bound under pain of sin to obey legitimate authorities except in cases where the authority is commanding us to sin. This I think is the SSPX's attitude at least. If I'm not mistaken, their priests are told to continue saying the Mass, to continue administering the sacraments, but not to break any civil laws in the process.

In order to break the law, one of the following conditions must be met:
1.) the government is a false or illegitimate authority (and even then I'm not sure that it's always ok to disobey), or,
2.) compliance with the law is positively sinful (not merely stupid or crazy)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 11:50:47 AM by Daniel »
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2020, 12:17:34 PM »
Just cause there is a list somewhere doesn't mean nefarious parties have access to it.

Really?

What's the purpose of the list then?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 12:20:44 PM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2020, 12:20:08 PM »
In order to break the law, one of the following conditions must be met:
1.) the government is a false or illegitimate authority (and even then I'm not sure that it's always ok to disobey), or,
2.) compliance with the law is positively sinful (not merely stupid or crazy)

Must laws be obeyed when they are passed by a government that is lying through its teeth in order to impose a totalitarian medical tyranny on its population?
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2020, 12:31:58 PM »
In order to break the law, one of the following conditions must be met:
1.) the government is a false or illegitimate authority (and even then I'm not sure that it's always ok to disobey), or,
2.) compliance with the law is positively sinful (not merely stupid or crazy)

Must laws be obeyed when they are passed by a government that is lying through its teeth in order to impose a totalitarian medical tyranny on its population?

I realize that that's a rhetorical question, but yes, in my non-expert opinion I'd think such laws do need to be obeyed.
 
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Offline Therese

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2020, 12:52:47 PM »
Just cause there is a list somewhere doesn't mean nefarious parties have access to it.

Really?

What's the purpose of the list then?

To keep within capacity limits. So there is no excuse for the civil authorities to say we aren't following the rules. Its really not some big conspiracy or a sin. When you have a large parish, what if everyone wants to come to the same mass? This is just a way to keep everyone spread out between masses.

If it comes down to having to sign up or not have Mass, I'll sign up, even if I don't like it. There is no sin involved. Put down your initials or a partial name. Nobody ever stopped anyone from coming in at our chapel. We all survived and were grateful to have the sacraments.

Look at it this way. If someone does see the list, you are stating you are a Catholic, you take your faith seriously and are not afraid to say so in public.

I was thinking, during the days of persecution, in the catacombs, in England, etc., you kind of had to "be one a list" to get into a Mass. If they were willing to risk imprisonment and death for the sake of the sacraments, the least we can do is put up with a few inconveniences for a few months for the same reason. If we can't deal with this, what are we going to do when real persecution comes?

Are we wiling to face death for our faith if we aren't even willing to make some small sacrifices for it?  Offer it up. Consider it a small penance, and a good way to work on our pride.
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Church/Covid Vent Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2020, 02:39:28 PM »
The Society near me has a register for Mass form online. I don't want to divulge too much online, other than the environment was not masky.

There must be more Father Nolans. Speak out and call it what it is.

Do people go along with this monstrous imposition?

Registering online to attend Mass = putting your name on yet another list.

Madness....

Were there no data-gathering, no "lists," etc., the point remains:  Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament is supposed to be universally available as an order of priority.  And that means anonymously so.  There are all kinds of stories priests tell us about random strangers showing up inside Catholic Churches on days like Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, as well as certain High Masses, simply for the comfort and beauty of the pageantry.  Some of those people are fallen away Catholics.  Some of them are Protestants.  Some are even Jews, and others are "non-believers."  ALL of them deserve anonymity when ALL of us walk into any Catholic Church for any reason.

Anonymous Mass
Anonymous Confession
Anonymous prayer
Anonymous stillness

There is no Catholic precedent, including during the medieval bubonic plague, for breaking this anonymity.  This is thoroughly an atheistic, 21st century, high-technology as the defining Power in the universe, with its own self-appointed Authority.  Even without lists.
 
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