Author Topic: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death  (Read 2105 times)

Offline Traditionallyruralmom

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1582
  • Thanked: 1571 times
  • Sweetest heart of Mary, be my salvation.
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2020, 09:48:03 AM »
again, back to the original topic......I was wondering if there were compilations of stories similar to the purgatory stories on this theme. 
Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.
 
The following users thanked this post: queen.saints

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13665
  • Thanked: 8107 times
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2020, 10:08:29 AM »
I have never heard of any in Catholic books besides the Don Bosco comic books.

The stories I have heard of tend to be out of body experiences and people leaving their body at death " seeing the light " and coming back again but most of these witnesses are not Catholics.

Not sure that the at death experience is a good moment.

When the body is well and truly buried and the emotions calm down and people appear months or years later that is slightly more convincing.
 

Offline Lynne

  • Thankful to be Catholic!
  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9766
  • Thanked: 4544 times
  • Religion: Catholic
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
The following users thanked this post: Traditionallyruralmom, queen.saints

Offline mikemac

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8037
  • Thanked: 4178 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13665
  • Thanked: 8107 times
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2020, 03:16:08 PM »
If I understand you correctly, if someone really experienced the phenomenon he calls a “ghost”, you will, in the absence of “physical evidence”, dismiss it as a creation of the brain or mind.

It depends.  If the person was rational, not given to emotions, did not believe in aliens, had never been to a seance, and they described something plausible I might.

But if they were a nutter, or prone to that, I would not without some physical evidence.

People claim all sorts of stupid shit all the time.
 

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13665
  • Thanked: 8107 times
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2020, 03:24:10 PM »
I'd like to understand something.

Why should I believe a random child, or female adult Catholic who claims to see Our Lady?

That is a heck of a claim, any loon can make it and many loons do.  Why on earth should it be more pious or holy to believe these claims credulously than to be sceptical of them without very solid proof.

Before they are just one of many children in the world and after THEY CLAIM to see Our Lady they are suddenly to be believed and treated like a saint?

These visionaries are not Jesus.  They have not risen from the dead or raised the dead in my presence.  They have not walked on water or turned water into wine.  Thus I am not a doubting Thomas.

Why on earth should I believe somebody just because they claim to have experienced something supernatural or preternatural?

Based on the laws of averages (most are liars or deluded) the correct response should be to doubt them unless and until something they have been told from Heaven demonstrates that they have been passed supernatural knowledge.
 

Offline Frank

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 388
  • Thanked: 194 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2020, 04:23:38 PM »
My head of school and his wife believed in the Little Pebble.

I only takes a minute's googling to realise what rubbish that is
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline Bernadette

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9626
  • Thanked: 5126 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2020, 04:41:44 PM »
I believe approved apparitions, as evidenced by my username. If there were someone claiming to have seen an apparition now, I would be less likely to believe it.
"Make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found."
 

Offline Daniel

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3006
  • Thanked: 771 times
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2020, 05:27:24 PM »
I would believe Fatima and La Salette and Lourdes on the Church's authority. The Church investigated them and said these apparitions were worthy of belief.

"Why should I believe children?" The better question is, why shouldn't you believe the children? These are pious and innocent children we're talking about. They don't tell sacrilegious lies. They may have been mistaken, but they couldn't have been lying.

Fake apparitions, whether hoaxes or actual satanic apparitions, always contain bad doctrine, bad fruits, etc. The Church-approved apparitions aren't like that. They are perfectly orthodox, and are accompanied by miracles and stuff. I'm sure also that the children were not found to be insane.
 
The following users thanked this post: Jayne, Blue Violet

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13665
  • Thanked: 8107 times
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2020, 06:07:18 PM »
How do you know they are pious?

Plenty of kids are liars.  Lucia's mother thought she was a liar.  Why would her mother not know her daughter's character?

What can ever happen to disprove Fatima now?  It can linger on with nothing happening for 100s of years and if anything positive happens with Russia people can retro fit it to whatever they want to pick from the long past apparition and say "well God must have meant this when he said that". 
 

Offline Frank

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 388
  • Thanked: 194 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2020, 08:47:27 PM »
I used to lie my head off as a boy. My surname sounded a bit German so
I told my best friend my father was a German baron.

I had a vivid imagination and I was always making up stuff
during the war.

Anyone who think kids are innocent must have led a very
sheltered childhood.

Being a skilful liar has its upside though. When us boy scouts
were confined to the main tent in typical English summer I used
to entertain the troop for hours on end by telling them gripping
stories about Digger Dawson in the Australian outback.
I just made it up as I went along. I couldn't manage it now.

You can't be a spy unless you know how to lie.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 08:50:46 PM by Frank »
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13665
  • Thanked: 8107 times
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2020, 01:30:15 AM »
Once again I ask.

A child or group of children makes up some story about a vision and future event.  She connects it politically.  20,000 people show up.  Gets oxygen of publicity and useful to those in power.  Those doubting it are called impious for not believing it.  Becomes entrenched like medjugore.

At what future point can you ever say it was wrong?

If none of the 10 secrets has happened by the year 2200 can we say the vision was a fraud?  Perhaps something loosely similar happens by accident.  The believers shoehorn it in and use it to promote the prophecy.

These prophecies are spawned but there's no way to kill them and stop them arising like zombies again.  If someone can get spiritual eyes, Russia can have an "interior conversion" and we can have spiritual peace or economic peace or peace in Portugal while wars carry on.

The period of peace could be 1 year or 100 years. Who is to say the period is not long enough to qualify?
 

Offline Frank

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 388
  • Thanked: 194 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2020, 02:00:46 AM »
In the case of Fatima you will have to account for the miracle witnessed by
thousands plus sceptical reporters.

Still, you are doing a magnificent job as devil's advocate.
Please carry on.  :)
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline diaduit

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1767
  • Thanked: 1966 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2020, 02:05:49 AM »
woo woo woo woo

Sorry, I just love that word  :)

back to topic.
 

Offline awkwardcustomer

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3445
  • Thanked: 1908 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: experiencing someones soul leave the body at death
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2020, 04:05:35 AM »
In the case of Fatima you will have to account for the miracle witnessed by
thousands plus sceptical reporters.

Still, you are doing a magnificent job as devil's advocate.
Please carry on.  :)

Start a thread.

Then we can discuss the Fatima deception without disrupting this one.

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne