Author Topic: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice  (Read 5423 times)

Offline Greg

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2020, 04:09:32 PM »
Q Anon posted today that Trump wanted to appoint another woman called Claire Deloon.  She was his first pick.

But she was grabbed by Debussy.
 
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Offline The Theosist

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2020, 04:21:19 PM »
It seems a "Catholic" woman with 7 children and a husband may be nominated for the Supreme Court.

Does anyone else sense something un-Catholic about a woman and mother of 7 children devoting her life to being a full time judge and now potential Supreme Court Justice?

Is not the vocation of women to be mothers and wives? Not working long hours for the government in positions of authority deciding legal cases?

Yes.

St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in In I ad Cor. XIV, 7, 880:
Quote from: St. Thomas Aquinas
[Women] are not permitted to speak, namely, by the authority of the Church, but their function is to be subject to men. Hence, since teaching implies prelacy and presiding, it is not suited to those who are subjects. The reason they are subject and not in the forefront is that they are deficient in reasoning, which is especially necessary for those who preside. Therefore, the Philosopher says in his Politics that corruption of rule occurs, when the rule comes to women.

his commentary on Aristotle's Politics, Sententia Politic. lib. 2 l. 13 n. 7 (discussing the Spartans' form of government), quoted in Popik's The Philosophy of Woman of St. Thomas Aquinas pt. 2:
Quote from: St. Thomas Aquinas
And yet it makes no difference whether the women themselves rule, or the rulers rule under the women, the rulers being subject to the women, as it were, because of the latter’s insolence (insolentiam). For the same thing results either way, namely, that the political community is badly governed, since women are deficient (deficiunt) in reason (ratione). […] the women, perhaps wishing to intrude themselves into everything, caused more disturbance than even the enemy […] [, which] show that laxness regarding women was harmful.

Why does Trump think he has to pick a woman?

To avoid the possibility of the inevitable sexual harassment and rape accusations. It’s the intelligent choice, the best choice, for anyone actually concerned with finally overturning Roe v Wade and saving lives rather than trad larping and the opinions of a pre-scientific virgin on the nature of women, in which he substitutes both personal insight from first-hand experience and rigorous empirical investigation with Aristotelian rationalism. (No disrespect to Aquinas, it’s just I don’t go to a teetotaller for his knowledge of wines)
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 04:35:20 PM by The Theosist »
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2020, 04:39:05 PM »
Yes.

St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in In I ad Cor. XIV, 7, 880:
Quote from: St. Thomas Aquinas
[Women] are not permitted to speak, namely, by the authority of the Church, but their function is to be subject to men. Hence, since teaching implies prelacy and presiding, it is not suited to those who are subjects. The reason they are subject and not in the forefront is that they are deficient in reasoning, which is especially necessary for those who preside. Therefore, the Philosopher says in his Politics that corruption of rule occurs, when the rule comes to women.

Women are allowed to assume leadership roles if necessity obliges it. We've had Catholic queens, for instance.

As for deficiency in reasoning, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between males and females with regard to general intelligence so as to preclude women from assuming any role outside housework or praying in a convent.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Jayne

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2020, 04:50:29 PM »
Q Anon posted today that Trump wanted to appoint another woman called Claire Deloon.  She was his first pick.

But she was grabbed by Debussy.


(We need to make sure that everyone can tell it's a joke.)
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2020, 06:22:14 PM »

As for deficiency in reasoning, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between males and females with regard to general intelligence so as to preclude women from assuming any role outside housework or praying in a convent.

On the one side we have:
 - The Old Testament
 - The New Testament
 - 2,000 years of Tradition and practice
 - Human nature
 - And even Aristotle

On the other side we have:
 - Modern opinions formed by political propaganda based on shoddy science

We see the results all around us of ignoring Option A in favor of Option B. Since women have come to political power we have witnessed the emergence of:

 - Normalized fornication
 - Normalized homosexuality
 - Universal contraception
 - The destruction of marriage and family
 - The slaughter of millions of unborn children
 - Gay marriage
 - Test-tube babies
 - The disappearance of nations as every first-world county faces population collapse and replacement

If faith in the teachings of God and our ancestors were not enough to convince you, one would think that at least the evidence staring you in the face would make you reconsider whether allowing women to have political power will have catastrophic consequences.


 
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Offline The Harlequin King

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2020, 06:49:48 PM »
Well before the modern age, it wasn't at all uncommon for women high up in society to use nannies.

Yes. Not only queens, but mothers throughout the upper echelons of society exercised statesmanship in thoroughly Catholic societies through the medieval and early modern periods. Their children were raised largely--or even entirely--by nannies. Maybe that's less than ideal, but it was certainly commonplace.

Catholics bashing Judge Barrett seems like a textbook case of the phrase "with friends like this, who needs enemies?"
 
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Offline Geremia

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2020, 07:42:48 PM »
To avoid the possibility of the inevitable sexual harassment and rape accusations.
Why let liberals dictate one's actions and decisions?

a pre-scientific virgin on the nature of women
You attack virginity (as if that means lack of knowledge of the opposite sex?) and the greatest doctor of the Church! You better retract that.

I don’t go to a teetotaller for his knowledge of wines
He knew and wrote about wine, e.g. in his quodlibetal question "Is truth stronger than wine, kings, and women?"
 
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Offline Geremia

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2020, 07:47:13 PM »
Women are allowed to assume leadership roles if necessity obliges it. We've had Catholic queens, for instance.
Yes, like Queen Isabela, but she had the head of the Spanish Inquisition, Torquemada, for her spiritual director!

As for deficiency in reasoning, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between males and females with regard to general intelligence so as to preclude women from assuming any role outside housework or praying in a convent.
Why, for example, are the vast majority of scientific discoveries made by men, if there's no overall superiority of the male mind?
Of course there are exceptions (nuns and others outside the domestic life have been a minority), but exceptions only prove the rule.
For those who deny this reality, priestesses are only one step away…
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 07:50:37 PM by Geremia »
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2020, 08:05:05 PM »
On the one side we have...

I do not believe that Scripture, the tradition of the Church and the history of Catholic societies precludes women from assuming roles of statesmanship and political power.

Quote
We see the results all around us of ignoring Option A in favor of Option B. Since women have come to political power we have witnessed the emergence of...

You're one of the people I enjoy reading here the most, Max. In this case, though, I think you are mistaken. This is just a long list of non sequiturs. All the erroneous ideas that undermine modern society have had the stamp of the male mind in either creating them or developping them and have required the approval of the men in charge of political affairs, the majority in any given nation, to give them force of law. They're not the consequence of women yielding political power, no matter how unwise you might find that arrangement.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Jayne

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2020, 08:07:46 PM »
Geremia, I was looking at your source, Popik's The Philosophy of Woman of St. Thomas Aquinas and noticed that it said:

Quote
It is very important to note, in this discussion of woman's relative rational and moral inferiority, that this inferiority does not hold true for all women.  Aquinas frequently mentions that woman's being weak of reason is only generally true, that exceptionally strong, persevering, constant, continent and wise women are found.

So it does not really make sense to use St. Thomas as an authority for disqualifying Amy Barett.  Rather, since he teaches that exceptional women exist, we should be determining whether she is one such an exception.
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Offline Graham

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2020, 08:12:46 PM »
I am certainly not pleased about high offices going to women but that ship sailed a long time ago. And you never know. I would have had a hard time believing that a black man is the best living American supreme court judge and now vying with a 35 year old californian Jew for the title of most based public figure in the country, if I didnt already know it.
 

Offline Graham

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2020, 08:22:29 PM »
Apologies. I mistook this for a Catholic forum.

From the responses it is clear that this is simply another Americanist, feminist, modernist, and thoroughly secularized forum of the Novus Ordo sect.

Have a good day.

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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2020, 08:26:30 PM »
Yes, like Queen Isabela, but she had the head of the Spanish Inquisition, Torquemada, for her spiritual director!

If women wielding political power were against nature, or a rebellion against God, surely Torquemada would have told the pious Isabella to step down or give away all political power to Ferdinand, her husband and king of Aragon. Yet Ferdinand had no say in the matters of the kingdom of Castile where Isabella reigned supreme.

Quote
Why, for example, are the vast majority of scientific discoveries made by men, if there's no overall superiority of the male mind? Of course there are exceptions (nuns and others outside the domestic life have been a minority), but exceptions only prove the rule.

The average IQ between the male and female population is relatively the same. You verify that in school where on average there's no significant difference between the sexes. Girls can even outperform boys in some cases and it is widely acknowledged that they enroll in college in higher numbers. Where there may be some difference is in the wider distribution of intellectual ability, meaning there are more men in the upper tail of the intelligence distribution. Men seem to have an edge at the extreme ends of the bell curve: either brilliant geniuses or intellectually challenged. Women seem to be more well-rounded.

The point is that women on average do not have an inherent cognitive deficiency when compared to men. Therefore, precluding them from ever having any public responsibility on the basis of deficiency of intellect is unjustified.

Quote
For those who deny this reality, priestesses are only one step away…

Non-sequitur. Recognizing that there isn't a significant difference between males and females with regard to general intelligence (cognitive faculties) does not mean that one denies the differences of the sexes: the different roles in nature and society, the different character dispositions, the difference in emotional intelligence, etc.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 02:06:00 PM by Vetus Ordo »
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2020, 09:44:07 PM »
You're one of the people I enjoy reading here the most, Max.

Thank you for this very nice compliment which I genuinely appreciate.

In this case, though, I think you are mistaken. This is just a long list of non sequiturs.

You're falling back on the mainstay of the defenders of Vatican II, the claim of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

It's true that the simple fact of one event occurring after another event is not in itself proof of causality. But it certainly establishes a presumption that can then be tested and proved.

It would take a lot more space than a post to demonstrate all the causal links, but to me it's apparent that giving political power to women has destroyed all the moral foundations of society. When women are given civil rights, they use them to attain the things they really want, which is to kill their children and divorce their husbands.

They're not the consequence of women wielding political power, no matter how unwise you might find that arrangement.

Women vote. And in our society, that gives them political power. It doesn't matter whether the figurehead is a man or a woman doing the will of the vox populi.
 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Traditional Catholic Teaching on Amy Barrett Being a Supreme Court Justice
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2020, 09:49:29 PM »
The average IQ between the male and female population is relatively the same. You verify that in school where on average there's no significant difference between the sexes. Girls can even outperform boys in some cases and it is widely acknowledged that they enroll in college in higher numbers. Where there may be some difference is in the wider distribution of intellectual ability, meaning there are more men in the upper tail of the intelligence distribution. Men seem to have an edge at the extreme ends of the bell curve: either brilliant geniuses or intellectually challenged. Women seem to be more well-rounded.

This issue has been discussed in-depth here on Suscipe Domine in the past, and your statement is simply not factual. It's a commonly-held belief, but it is not supported by the data.

The reality is that men prevail over women all across the right side of the bell curve. Once you get even 2 standard deviations above the mean, there is a very large preponderance of men. Once you get to the far end of the distribution, there are almost exclusively males, as you acknowledge.
 
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