Author Topic: Can evil people repent?  (Read 2397 times)

Offline Jayne

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #150 on: September 24, 2020, 08:09:54 AM »
This family visibly had faith, hope and charity.

So in justice alone they merit Heaven.

Our Lady did not need God's mercy.

I've long suspected you didn't have the faintest clue regarding what the Gospel is and this post confirms it.

Your religion is a purely works based system of salvation. Your hubris and hatred of those you deem unworthy of mercy may be your undoing.

You understand that this is Greg's personal opinion, right?  It is not Catholic teaching and one cannot criticize Catholicism for it.

He wasn't necessarily speaking of Catholicism. Often "your religion" is short for "your own (personal) understanding of religion."

That is actually how I took it at first, but then I recalled that abc has a history of being critical of Catholicism.  I thought it would be good to be explicit in this case.

This is a general problem when the person currently posting more on this forum than anyone else habitually makes statements incompatible with traditional Catholicism.  It creates confusion for non-Catholics. Also, sometimes (although I am not saying that abc does this), in order to attack Catholicism, they deliberately and maliciously pretend that egregiously wrong statements from supposedly Catholic posters are representative of traditional Catholicism.

Although some apparently think that I am motivated by some sort of personal vendetta against Greg,  I am primarily driven by a desire for clarity about what the Catholic Church really teaches.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #151 on: September 24, 2020, 08:15:38 AM »
Let's imagine there is someone who once believed in God and they don't merely become an atheist and think abortion is OK, but they become a Satanist and actively encourage women to have abortions.  The seek out younger people to corrupt them and they die cursing God.  What Malachi Martin used to call perfectly possessed.  They are comfortable with the idea that they will be damned.

Is that person worthy of Mercy?


Nobody is worthy of mercy.  The question does not even make sense.  It is like asking how many corners a circle has.  You have a serious fundamental misunderstanding of what the Church teaches on this.

edit to add:  There is one thing that we know of that affects how much mercy God shows us - how much mercy we show others.  Those who refuse to show mercy lose the mercy that God might otherwise have shown them.  Our Lord told a parable, recounted in Matthew 18:

Quote
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened to a king, who would take an account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to take the account, one was brought to him, that owed him ten thousand talents. [25] And as he had not wherewith to pay it, his lord commanded that he should be sold, and his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.

[26] But that servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] And the lord of that servant being moved with pity, let him go and forgave him the debt. [28] But when that servant was gone out, he found one of his fellow servants that owed him an hundred pence: and laying hold of him, throttled him, saying: Pay what thou owest. [29] And his fellow servant falling down, besought him, saying: Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he paid the debt.

[31] Now his fellow servants seeing what was done, were very much grieved, and they came and told their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord called him; and said to him: Thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all the debt, because thou besoughtest me: [33] Shouldst not thou then have had compassion also on thy fellow servant, even as I had compassion on thee? [34] And his lord being angry, delivered him to the torturers until he paid all the debt. [35] So also shall my heavenly Father do to you, if you forgive not every one his brother from your hearts.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 09:43:45 AM by Jayne »
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #152 on: September 24, 2020, 04:18:11 PM »
I just came across this song and I knew that it belonged in this thread.  Greg, if you have been looking for a theme song, this is it.  It is totally you.

Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #153 on: September 25, 2020, 08:06:02 PM »
If anyone objects that Trent Horn is a Vatican II modernist, I remind you that what he espouses here was already espoused openly before the Council by the likes of Abp. Lefebvre and others.

Trent Horn is no Archbishop Lefebvre.

Of course not, but on this point, they believed the same thing.

Here's another victim of implicit baptism of desire:

« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 08:13:48 PM by Vetus Ordo »
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #154 on: September 27, 2020, 11:28:32 PM »
This thread has reminded me of another favourite film - highly relevant to the redemption of formerly evil men - 'The Scarlet and the Black' starring Gregory Peck and Christopher Plummer - make sure you watch right to the end and read the postscript...............
On another thread you wrote:
Quote
Interesting that you refer above to the cold fusion hype of Fleischmann and Pons - I was myself v peripherally involved in the early attempts to reproduce their results at Harwell when they came out with it - and their claimed results could not be reproduced

Tell me DeaconJamesOxford, in view of a huge conflict of interest, the MIT controversy with Dr Mallove and his subsequent Killary style murder weren't you at all curious as to why F&P's results "could not be reproduced"?

I worked all my life in scientific research and experienced cover up and manipulation of inconvenient data.

Oh, and another question whilst I'm about it.

Presumably you are a Deacon for both the old and the new mass.
Do you give out communion on the tongue for the old mass and in the hand for the new?
I believe in the new masses at the London Oratory they have communion on the tongue.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 02:08:55 AM by Frank »
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #155 on: September 28, 2020, 12:31:02 AM »
I just came across this song and I knew that it belonged in this thread.  Greg, if you have been looking for a theme song, this is it.  It is totally you.

My favourite from that film is this one:


My father was in summer camp with the Civil Service Rifles when that war broke out. They were sent straight to the front.
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 
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Offline DeaconJamesOxford

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #156 on: September 28, 2020, 06:57:31 AM »
Frank

If there had been any fusion events in the Harwell repeats of the F&P cold fusion experiments my neutron detectors would have picked it up -  there was nothing that could not be explained by purely chemical reactions

Regarding the distribution of Holy Communion - I do not wish to comment in a public forum due to recent unpleasantness from that rag the Tablet
 

Offline The Theosist

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #157 on: September 28, 2020, 07:13:32 AM »
I believe in the new masses at the London Oratory they have communion on the tongue.

Unless something has recently changed ...
 

Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #158 on: September 28, 2020, 08:22:30 AM »
I believe in the new masses at the London Oratory they have communion on the tongue.

Unless something has recently changed ...

My daughter informs me, "the present situation at the London Oratory is that they are still giving Communion on the tongue which is how the majority of people receive it (at the new mass) but the Bishops have obliged them to give it on the hand if requested.  I have been to the 11am new mass and haven't noticed anyone receiving on the hand."
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #159 on: September 28, 2020, 09:05:27 AM »
Frank

If there had been any fusion events in the Harwell repeats of the F&P cold fusion experiments my neutron detectors would have picked it up -  there was nothing that could not be explained by purely chemical reactions
...

The fact that you write "my neutron detectors" rather than "the neutron detectors" suggests that you were the person carrying out the experiments.

Were you?
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline DeaconJamesOxford

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #160 on: September 28, 2020, 09:27:56 AM »
Frank

No I was involved with designing, supplying and installing them and their electronics - but I talked to the people actually doing the experiment
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #161 on: September 28, 2020, 09:55:40 AM »
I believe in the new masses at the London Oratory they have communion on the tongue.

Unless something has recently changed ...

My daughter informs me, "the present situation at the London Oratory is that they are still giving Communion on the tongue which is how the majority of people receive it (at the new mass) but the Bishops have obliged them to give it on the hand if requested.  I have been to the 11am new mass and haven't noticed anyone receiving on the hand."

Are they wearing masks though, which presumably they have to take off to receive Communion on the tongue and then put back on, or lift their masks up, or whatever?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 09:57:29 AM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #162 on: September 28, 2020, 10:42:04 AM »
Frank

No I was involved with designing, supplying and installing them and their electronics - but I talked to the people actually doing the experiment
Many thanks for all the info.

I assume you must have been a Senior Experimental Officer - assuming that
Harwell keep the same career titles as the scientific civil service after they were cut loose.

My old lab (RRL) on the corner of Heathrow is now an immigrant detention centre. The 100 ton Amsler and the Large Structure Lab (2ft thick reinforced concrete stressing floor) saved BRS being moved from Garston. 

I've taken out a free subscription for "that rag, the Tablet."

Do you have a link to the unpleasantness.  :)
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 

Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #163 on: September 28, 2020, 11:41:17 AM »
I believe in the new masses at the London Oratory they have communion on the tongue.

Unless something has recently changed ...

My daughter informs me, "the present situation at the London Oratory is that they are still giving Communion on the tongue which is how the majority of people receive it (at the new mass) but the Bishops have obliged them to give it on the hand if requested.  I have been to the 11am new mass and haven't noticed anyone receiving on the hand."

Are they wearing masks though, which presumably they have to take off to receive Communion on the tongue and then put back on, or lift their masks up, or whatever?

My daughter tells me that at the London Oratory only about 50 per cent of people are wearing masks during the Mass.  No one wears a mask up to Communion (but the priests there are wearing masks as they distribute Holy Communion). At the old rite Masses she attends hardly anyone is wearing a mask, including the priest.
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
 
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Offline Frank

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Re: Can evil people repent?
« Reply #164 on: September 29, 2020, 08:07:43 AM »
Frank

No I was involved with designing, supplying and installing them and their electronics - but I talked to the people actually doing the experiment
Many thanks for all the info.

I assume you must have been a Senior Experimental Officer - assuming that
Harwell keep the same career titles as the scientific civil service after they were cut loose.

My old lab (RRL) on the corner of Heathrow is now an immigrant detention centre. The 100 ton Amsler and the Large Structure Lab (2ft thick reinforced concrete stressing floor) saved BRS being moved from Garston. 

I've taken out a free subscription for "that rag, the Tablet."

Do you have a link to the unpleasantness.  :)

Oops! That should have been the 1000 ton Amsler.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=x-raw-image%3A%2F%2F%2Ffc3852bb26ff504595e822f9faa246f359d17c96f2217757ac197a8dea595750&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bre.co.uk%2Fctf%2F45%2Fdownloads%2Fctf_45.pdf&tbnid=RVD_JrtSOPw42M&vet=12ahUKEwicwK3lpo7sAhUV0eAKHaJCCkAQMygBegUIARCUAQ..i&docid=-ANk7zQ7eF_RiM&w=425&h=658&q=building%20researh%20station%201000%20ton%20amsler&hl=en-GB&safe=off&ved=2ahUKEwicwK3lpo7sAhUV0eAKHaJCCkAQMygBegUIARCUAQ
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est