Question for Croix de Fer

[Croix de Fer]

Meanwhile, Vetus Ordo plays a far cleverer

Vetus Ordo isn't clever, nor is he intellectual. Yesterday, I called out his logical fallacy manifested in two separate posts that contradicted each other within about an hour. Nothing but crickets from him because he knows I'm right.

 Note how this thread was started by his sidekick Fleur-de-Lys, who shares his intellectual, culinary and linguistic pretentions. 

She's just gauging whether she can be a prospective wife of mine.

[Fleur-de-Lys]

Note how this thread was started by his sidekick Fleur-de-Lys, who shares his intellectual, culinary and linguistic pretentions. 

She's just gauging whether she can be a prospective wife of mine.

So that's what drew you here? My intellectual, culinary, and linguistic pretensions make me a magnet. Well, enjoy the fantasy, Croix! It's all you'll ever have.

[Vetus Ordo]

Caligula is supposed to have tried to place a statue of himself in the temple of Jerusalem in order to test the Jews' loyalty there.  The recalcitrance and self-aggrandizing haughtiness of the God of the Hebrews was unpalatable to the Romans—whether in his primary priesthood or in his various sectarian devotees (Christians, Samaritans, Bar Kokhbans, &c.)

Poor benighted Hebrews, refusing to put a debased and effeminate tyrant on the same level as the omnipotent Creator of heaven and earth. Even more silly than Socrates being executed for suggesting that deities don't fornicate with each other and rape human beings.

Typically obdurate Semites.

If only Rome had held on to the caprice of Jupiter or Venus instead.

[TheReturnofLive]

Caligula is supposed to have tried to place a statue of himself in the temple of Jerusalem in order to test the Jews' loyalty there.  The recalcitrance and self-aggrandizing haughtiness of the God of the Hebrews was unpalatable to the Romans—whether in his primary priesthood or in his various sectarian devotees (Christians, Samaritans, Bar Kokhbans, &c.)

Poor benighted Hebrews, refusing to put a debased and effeminate tyrant on the same level as the omnipotent Creator of heaven and earth. Even more silly than Socrates being executed for suggesting that deities don't fornicate with each other and rape human beings.

Need I remind you, though, that you worship a God who was a carpenter and friends with fishermen, a God who underwent capital punishment and literally died.

[Greg]

 zay gezunt Croix de Fer.  It happened and "soon".  Like really "soon".

Told ya.

[Pon de Replay]

Caligula is supposed to have tried to place a statue of himself in the temple of Jerusalem in order to test the Jews' loyalty there.  The recalcitrance and self-aggrandizing haughtiness of the God of the Hebrews was unpalatable to the Romans—whether in his primary priesthood or in his various sectarian devotees (Christians, Samaritans, Bar Kokhbans, &c.)

Poor benighted Hebrews, refusing to put a debased and effeminate tyrant on the same level as the omnipotent Creator of heaven and earth. Even more silly than Socrates being executed for suggesting that deities don't fornicate with each other and rape human beings.

If God is offended by the thought of Caligula's statue in his temple, then he can, being "the omnipotent Creator of heaven and earth," smite Caligula at his pleasure.  The response here might be to say that God was using Caligula as an instrument to test the Jews' fealty (for the umpteenth time).  One wonders why he bothered, though, since at this date the Jews had already proved perfidious in calling for the crucifixion.  "His blood be upon us, and on our children!" 

God was already done with them at this point.  They were an accursed people, dead to him, unless they were willing to repent and be baptized.  Standing up to a Roman ponce is not going to redeem you if you've committed deicide. 

[Vetus Ordo]

Need I remind you, though, that you worship a God who was a carpenter and friends with fishermen, a God who underwent capital punishment and literally died.

I'm sure you can tell the difference between God condescending to become a man for our sake and putting a statue of a pagan emperor in God's place in the temple.

Furthermore, He is impassible. Only the human nature of Christ can suffer and die.

[Pon de Replay]

Islam influenced Southern Europe and the Balkans to a large extent.

One cannot help but look in amazement at the civilization of Al-Andalus or the Emirate of Sicily, for instance.

Iberia is certainly an interesting corner of Europe.  In one sense, we can say it is the most Semitic—between the residency of the Sephardic Jews there, the Moorish conquest, and its two epochs of Christianity, and all the resultant hostilities.  And yet it is none the worse for wear.

For what follows, I'm sure you will know that I do not ask this in the same vein as your various interlocutors here who attempt to auto-da-fé you into revealing yourself as some sort of crypto-Mohammedan.  But I think it has to be agreed: it would have been overall worse for Europe had it gone to Islam rather than Christianity, n'est-ce pas?  (Somewhere an alternate history or two has probably been written about this, where Charles Martel was defeated instead of having triumphed).  Interestingly, Nietzsche, who was mentioned earlier on this thread, once said he would have favored Islam, so great was his contempt for Christianity.  I do not agree with him there.

[Pon de Replay]

zay gezunt Croix de Fer.  It happened and "soon".  Like really "soon".

Told ya.

I confess I'm disappointed.  He had interesting views, and I would've liked to have heard more from him.  A trenchant anti-Semite, and yet a Judaizing traditional Catholic.  And he seems to have been a vegan.  I also wonder how he determined that a video of a crazed Australian reeling off a stream of "get out there and live your life to the fullest" platitudes, laced with generous profanity, constituted "Catholic truth."  Croix de Fer was a compelling enigma, a curiosity you can't ignore.

[Vetus Ordo]

Islam influenced Southern Europe and the Balkans to a large extent.

One cannot help but look in amazement at the civilization of Al-Andalus or the Emirate of Sicily, for instance.

Iberia is certainly an interesting corner of Europe.  In one sense, we can say it is the most Semitic—between the residency of the Sephardic Jews there, the Moorish conquest, and its two epochs of Christianity, and all the resultant hostilities.  And yet it is none the worse for wear.

For what follows, I'm sure you will know that I do not ask this in the same vein as your various interlocutors here who attempt to auto-da-fé you into revealing yourself as some sort of crypto-Mohammedan.  But I think it has to be agreed: it would have been overall worse for Europe had it gone to Islam rather than Christianity, n'est-ce pas?  (Somewhere an alternate history or two has probably been written about this, where Charles Martel was defeated instead of having triumphed).  Interestingly, Nietzsche, who was mentioned earlier on this thread, once said he would have favored Islam, so great was his contempt for Christianity.  I do not agree with him there.

Spiritually worse? Obviously. Christendom's strength lies precisely in the truth of the gospel. Without it, any material and intellectual progress is ultimately vain.

However, one cannot simply dismiss the achievements of Islamic civilization out of hand and how our interactions with them shaped the West. We have examples of parts of Europe in the past that became Islamized and that were civilizationally on par with the rest of the globe, sometimes even superior to others in wealth and the worldly sciences. This could not have possibly come about if Islam were merely a destructive force that grew out of the depths of Arabia. In fact, the establishment of such a longstanding civilization that now spans 1,400 years and that has reached the four corners of the globe and so many different cultures is a remarkable achievement that no-one can take away from that modest and illiterate Arab trader that lived in the outskirts of the dominant powers of his age.

[Greg]

PDR - You are ignoring that my prophecy came true, and soon meant soon for once.

He gone, not vegan.

[paul14]

However, one cannot simply dismiss the achievements of Islamic civilization out of hand and how our interactions with them shaped the West. We have examples of parts of Europe in the past that became Islamized and that were civilizationally on par with the rest of the globe, sometimes even superior to others in wealth and the worldly sciences. This could not have possibly come about if Islam were merely a destructive force that grew out of the depths of Arabia. In fact, the establishment of such a longstanding civilization that now spans 1,400 years and that has reached the four corners of the globe and so many different cultures is a remarkable achievement that no-one can take away from that modest and illiterate Arab trader that lived in the outskirts of the dominant powers of his age.

What Muhammad Did When He Saw a Beautiful Woman