Author Topic: Need advice, prayers  (Read 1483 times)

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8386
  • Thanked: 3389 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Need advice, prayers
« on: September 09, 2020, 03:14:29 PM »
Even in rural middle America the infectious Zeitgeist metastasizes. There is an afflicted girl undergoing "gender reassignment." From girl name to boy name. Principal's briefing indicated we are all on board and accepting. Um, no. Am I under moral imperative to address child by synthetic name?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 
The following users thanked this post: Graham, diaduit

Offline Jayne

  • Mary Garden
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13718
  • Thanked: 5953 times
  • Comic Sans Frontières
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2020, 03:40:14 PM »
Why would you even consider the possibility that you are under a moral imperative to use the new name?  What Catholic principle could lead to such a conclusion?  I would have expected the question to be whether one is obliged to refuse to use it, even if it puts one's job at risk.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8386
  • Thanked: 3389 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2020, 04:48:06 PM »
Why would you even consider the possibility that you are under a moral imperative to use the new name?  What Catholic principle could lead to such a conclusion?  I would have expected the question to be whether one is obliged to refuse to use it, even if it puts one's job at risk.

I phrased that wrong: Am I under a moral imperative to call the child by her birth name and NOT the synthetic name?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Jayne

  • Mary Garden
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13718
  • Thanked: 5953 times
  • Comic Sans Frontières
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2020, 04:54:37 PM »
Why would you even consider the possibility that you are under a moral imperative to use the new name?  What Catholic principle could lead to such a conclusion?  I would have expected the question to be whether one is obliged to refuse to use it, even if it puts one's job at risk.

I phrased that wrong: Am I under a moral imperative to call the child by her birth name and NOT the synthetic name?

OK, that makes sense now.  What would the consequences to you be if you call her by the birth name?   
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13717
  • Thanked: 8163 times
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2020, 05:03:08 PM »
What is the name.  Old and New.

Hopefully Leslie.
 
The following users thanked this post: OCLittleFlower, Lydia Purpuraria

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8386
  • Thanked: 3389 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2020, 05:03:13 PM »
Why would you even consider the possibility that you are under a moral imperative to use the new name?  What Catholic principle could lead to such a conclusion?  I would have expected the question to be whether one is obliged to refuse to use it, even if it puts one's job at risk.

I phrased that wrong: Am I under a moral imperative to call the child by her birth name and NOT the synthetic name?

OK, that makes sense now.  What would the consequences to you be if you call her by the birth name?

Prolly get canned. Look what happened to this poor soul in a suburb of Indianapolis:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2019/06/20/former-brownsburg-teacher-john-kluge-sues-school-district-over-transgender-student-policy/1508710001/

I am not going to do it. No way. This child is in my homeroom and will not be addressed by the new name from her homeroom teacher. Otherwise my "Male and Female He created them" bumper sticker is nothing but a pose and I am a weakling.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 
The following users thanked this post: Non Nobis, Lynne, queen.saints

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8386
  • Thanked: 3389 times
  • Gott, wende Dich zu uns und gib uns neues Leben
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2020, 05:03:56 PM »
What is the name.  Old and New.

Hopefully Leslie.

No. Not Pat, either.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Greg

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13717
  • Thanked: 8163 times
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2020, 05:10:17 PM »
Well I guess you could argue that the name itself is not a gender.

But I don't think you can go along with using a male pronoun or in anyway supporting the delusion.

So you are really just delaying your firing by a couple of weeks.

Personally, I would not make a big splash over it if it is going to affect your future references and job opportunities.  Better to see the school principal, explain the problem and agree to leave calmly.  Things are so far gone now that it is just one more story in the local rag, if that.   The upside of making a public stand does not outweigh the downside.  Not a hill worth dying on.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich, red solo cup, Graham

Offline Jayne

  • Mary Garden
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13718
  • Thanked: 5953 times
  • Comic Sans Frontières
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2020, 05:13:15 PM »
I am not going to do it. No way. This child is in my homeroom and will not be addressed by the new name from her homeroom teacher. Otherwise my "Male and Female He created them" bumper sticker is nothing but a pose and I am a weakling.

This sounds like your conscience has already reached a conclusion.  You are morally obliged to follow your conscience.

 :pray3:
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
The following users thanked this post: Vetus Ordo, Heinrich

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3100
  • Thanked: 1712 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 05:13:33 PM »
I’d call your priest ASAP for a final judgment, not to mention get a lawyer ASAP and start documenting due to the very real possibility you get retaliated against (as in employment threatened), but in my understanding you absolutely morally cannot call the girl by her “transgender” name, or act in a way that communicates you accept their condition as normal.   As you know, I was recently fired from my PT job after I complained about a long pattern of sexual discrimination (daily sex jokes for months, many about men/male anatomy) committed by 2 lesbian coworkers, defended by the regional manager their gay friend, because I had followed up with a second formal complaint about retaliation after the fact that upper management deemed to be “unfounded complaints interfering with the work environment.”   Buckle up and keep us posted, H.   These are dark times for Christians.   Yes, you’re in my prayers.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 05:29:46 PM by christulsa »
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich

Offline Jayne

  • Mary Garden
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 13718
  • Thanked: 5953 times
  • Comic Sans Frontières
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2020, 05:47:17 PM »
The Vatican released a document (not a secret one) on transgenderism in 2019: http://www.educatio.va/content/dam/cec/Documenti/19_0997_INGLESE.pdf

Take a look at it, Heinrich. I think it supports your position and makes it possible for you to claim that you are following Catholic teaching.  You may be able to make some sort of case based on freedom of religion.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
The following users thanked this post: Vetus Ordo, Heinrich, Maximilian, queen.saints

Offline Lynne

  • Thankful to be Catholic!
  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9771
  • Thanked: 4550 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2020, 05:51:46 PM »
 :pray3:
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline christulsa

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3100
  • Thanked: 1712 times
    • The Okie Traditionalist Blog
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2020, 06:09:45 PM »
Personally, I would not make a big splash over it if it is going to affect your future references and job opportunities.  Better to see the school principal, explain the problem and agree to leave calmly.  Things are so far gone now that it is just one more story in the local rag, if that.   The upside of making a public stand does not outweigh the downside.  Not a hill worth dying on.

It's a case of being "stuck between a rock and a hard place."  If he quits now quietly he still likely looks bad to future employers, since he quit at the beginning of the  school year, leaving them high and dry to scramble and find a replacement,  and the next HR check will likely find out why he quit and limit his hire-ability.  He would have to assume that likelihood.  Unless he can really trust the principal and district HR to not disclose his real reason for leaving when asked, but if in the first place they are officially requiring teachers to refer to "transgender" kids by their "transgender" gender name, then they will likely disclose why he quit.  Either way, his career as a teacher is seriously damaged.

So why not go down with honor, teach his students by example about Christian morality, and maybe also get a wrongful termination lawsuit down the line to boot?  Being a teacher is a noble calling, and he is being called to be a witness about this scandal. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 06:32:06 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline mikemac

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8048
  • Thanked: 4181 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2020, 06:14:13 PM »
Yeah  :pray2:
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3595
  • Thanked: 3854 times
  • Hopeful Fatalist
Re: Need advice, prayers
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2020, 06:29:11 PM »
In case the school fires you and you sue them, you can probably win the case on the grounds of religious freedom. Nevertheless, it's better to avoid that public confrontation if possible. Talk to the principal privately, explain the situation and see if there's a way for you to quietly ignore the directive without causing disturbance. It's possible that you can avoid calling her by her name altogether. A little Jesuitical but it's probably doable with some craftiness.

If confrontation with the school is inevitable, then obey God rather than men. If faith is worth anything, it's precisely in these situations.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich, Non Nobis, Jayne, Lynne, Fleur-de-Lys, Kent, Elizabeth.2