Author Topic: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass  (Read 1503 times)

Offline Sempronius

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2020, 04:31:53 AM »


A traditional priest once homilied that weak and prideful people reject criticism and become recalcitrant(my word). Just say'n.

This needs to be reminded from time to time.
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2020, 08:25:58 AM »
Individual trads can be assholes and all the things you accuse them of, but as a group compared to the fuck-ups in novus ordo land they tend to be more successful at raising families and keeping their children on the straight and narrow.

In a Pepsi challenge between novus-ordoland and tradland, I would have to believe that trads would wipe the floor with novus-ordinarians, especially if you took the lapsed ones into account on both sides of the equation.

Test of their faith, what they knew and what they believed (Trads win this hands down.  NOs are laughably ignorant).
Test of their ability to stick to a vocation or raise a successful Catholic family.  Trads win.
Lapse rate of their children.  Trads win.
Size of families, Trads win.

I would define a Trad as someone who flatly refuses to attend the new mass and wants Vatican II documents burned and the people who pushed them posthumously excommunicated.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 08:27:58 AM by Greg »
 
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Offline diaduit

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2020, 10:00:53 AM »
Individual trads can be assholes and all the things you accuse them of, but as a group compared to the fuck-ups in novus ordo land they tend to be more successful at raising families and keeping their children on the straight and narrow.

In a Pepsi challenge between novus-ordoland and tradland, I would have to believe that trads would wipe the floor with novus-ordinarians, especially if you took the lapsed ones into account on both sides of the equation.

Test of their faith, what they knew and what they believed (Trads win this hands down.  NOs are laughably ignorant).
Test of their ability to stick to a vocation or raise a successful Catholic family.  Trads win.
Lapse rate of their children.  Trads win.
Size of families, Trads win.

I would define a Trad as someone who flatly refuses to attend the new mass and wants Vatican II documents burned and the people who pushed them posthumously excommunicated.
oh but you're not allowed to say that  8)
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2020, 10:43:23 AM »
I am allowed because the only people telling me not to say it are Trad pretenders and I feel wholly at liberty to ignore them.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2020, 12:38:04 PM »
Part of the problem is that we get people like Greg acting as if he is some sort of trad spokesman who gets to define who real trads are. Of course this creates a negative impression.  If I did not know enough to realize that I should ignore Greg, I would think that trads are horrible.  I certainly would not want to be one.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline christulsa

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2020, 03:24:07 PM »
Catholicism isn't a contest between trads vs. novus ordo Catholics over who has more faith or knowledge (or kids). Those are all good things, and a selling point of traditionaism itself, but ironically, that attitude would only place one in the loser position spiritually, by losing in their soul the true spirit of Jesus Christ which is charity.  And, ironically it shows an actual short-sighted lack of faith and knowledge in Catholicism.  Catholic Tradition, and an authentic traditionalist turn towards Tradition, is essential, but not in a pharisaical way.  This warning is often preached by trad priests whether SSPX, FSSP, motu proprio, etc.  In certain ways trads are better, in terms of orthodoxy or orthopraxis, but I'm not sure we should claim (or talk as if) we are spiritually superior.  Maybe we are, God knows. 

« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 03:25:42 PM by christulsa »
 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2020, 04:24:59 PM »
Part of the problem is that we get people like Greg acting as if he is some sort of trad spokesman who gets to define who real trads are. Of course this creates a negative impression.  If I did not know enough to realize that I should ignore Greg, I would think that trads are horrible.  I certainly would not want to be one.

Now that was uncalled for young lady. He's a rarity in that he grew up trad and has had more experiences in divers places than most of us here. That should count for something, even if he's using the barrack's language.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2020, 05:08:35 PM »
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 05:14:14 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline christulsa

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2020, 05:15:51 PM »
Rarity?  ::)
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2020, 07:09:16 PM »
Part of the problem is that we get people like Greg acting as if he is some sort of trad spokesman who gets to define who real trads are. Of course this creates a negative impression.  If I did not know enough to realize that I should ignore Greg, I would think that trads are horrible.  I certainly would not want to be one.

Now that was uncalled for young lady. He's a rarity in that he grew up trad and has had more experiences in divers places than most of us here. That should count for something, even if he's using the barrack's language.

The barrack's language is a relatively minor problem.  He regularly posts ideas inconsistent with Catholic teaching.  We have seen countless posts in which he rejected doctrine in favour of alleged "common sense". Being a trad is about accepting the Catholic faith that has been preserved and handed on through the ages.  Who one's relatives are and where one has travelled are completely irrelevant.  They count for nothing at all.

Although there is such a thing as trad culture, it is not the core of being a traditional Catholic.  Being Catholic is the core.  We are traditional because we are holding onto that core in a world gone mad and we recognize that this core is found in tradition.

Whether one's reaction to Greg is "what a character" or "what a jerk" there is no basis to hold him as a good proponent of Catholicism or as a representative of tradition.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
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Offline dellery

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2020, 08:13:37 PM »
Quote
Although there is such a thing as trad culture, it is not the core of being a traditional Catholic.  Being Catholic is the core.  We are traditional because we are holding onto that core in a world gone mad and we recognize that this core is found in tradition.

Well said, Jayne!
Bean-Curd Tiger
 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2020, 08:40:23 PM »
Part of the problem is that we get people like Greg acting as if he is some sort of trad spokesman who gets to define who real trads are. Of course this creates a negative impression.  If I did not know enough to realize that I should ignore Greg, I would think that trads are horrible.  I certainly would not want to be one.

Now that was uncalled for young lady. He's a rarity in that he grew up trad and has had more experiences in divers places than most of us here. That should count for something, even if he's using the barrack's language.

The barrack's language is a relatively minor problem.  He regularly posts ideas inconsistent with Catholic teaching.  We have seen countless posts in which he rejected doctrine in favour of alleged "common sense". Being a trad is about accepting the Catholic faith that has been preserved and handed on through the ages.  Who one's relatives are and where one has travelled are completely irrelevant.  They count for nothing at all.

Although there is such a thing as trad culture, it is not the core of being a traditional Catholic.  Being Catholic is the core.  We are traditional because we are holding onto that core in a world gone mad and we recognize that this core is found in tradition.

Whether one's reaction to Greg is "what a character" or "what a jerk" there is no basis to hold him as a good proponent of Catholicism or as a representative of tradition.

Do you agree with him post #31?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2020, 09:15:30 PM »
Catholicism isn't a contest between trads vs. novus ordo Catholics

Wrong.  It is a contest.  We fight a fight.  We run a race.  There is a prize for the winners.

The novus ordo and trad worlds cannot co-exist.  One must kill the other off.

That is evident for all to see.   Just like a person's gender.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 09:18:15 PM by Greg »
 
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2020, 09:27:46 PM »
Catholicism isn't a contest between trads vs. novus ordo Catholics

Wrong.  It is a contest.  We fight a fight.  We run a race.  There is a prize for the winners.

The novus ordo and trad worlds cannot co-exist.  One must kill the other off.

That is evident for all to see.   Just like a person's gender.

There's a difference between Tradition vs. the Novus Ordo, and the Catholic character/holiness of trads vs novus ordo Catholics.  Let's just say practicing novus ordo-rite Catholics who one some level still profess being Catholic.  Obviously to most here, Tradition is at odds with the New Religion of Vatican II/the New Mass.  But by your own post history critiquing the hypocrisy/nuttiness found at times in the Trad movement, you would admit that when a trad acts superior to novus ordo Catholics, on a personal level, because per se they are "trad," that is going to make us look bad, and discourage novus ordo Catholics from returning to Tradition.  Marshall and Johnson were briefly addressing this issue in the video you posted in the OP.

And to answer your question about if I am using drugs (which you edited out),  I am drinking tonight Jim Bim Devil's Cut.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 09:35:25 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Abby Johnson goes to the old mass
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2020, 09:46:29 PM »
Incorrect.  I have never said that about Trads.

We should be superior to Novus Ordinarians and have superior fruits, ie show that superiority.  Fruits are things you can see.

There is a different between being proud and acknowledging reality.  A trad family of 10 is superior to a novus ordo family of 3.

Where Trads talk the talk, without walking the walk, then, and only then, I have accused them.

But Trads are inherently superior because they have a better set of tools.  Novus Ordinarians are deliberate and wilful spiritual cripples.

Vigano was such a cripple for a long time.  He knew about Arch. Lefebvre in the 1970s, but did not have the jacobs to defend him.  Now as an old man, and from hiding he writes letters.  Weak, inferior.  No hero.  Vigano came from a rich family so did not even need the Vatican to fund his life.  Saying Lefebvre was right now is better than nothing, but it is blatantly obvious at this point.

Do we praise the Nazi who leaves the Party in April 1945 or the Soviet communist who resigns in 1989?

Likewise, if Trump turns out to be a great President who makes America great for good American people, and hamstrings the liberal scumbags those who refuse to vote for him in 2020 get zero credit for admitting this in 2025.  Timing is everything. 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 09:52:36 PM by Greg »