Author Topic: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal  (Read 252 times)

Offline Jacob

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Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« on: November 06, 2020, 06:50:45 PM »
Its little intro has a line about how laity can say the prayer for on their own behalf, but then it goes on to talk about how only priests should say it.  Could anyone clarify this?
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Online Miriam_M

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2020, 03:46:38 AM »
I think we'd have to see the content of the prayer.  The wording and how the prayer is addressed is an important feature.
 
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Offline Jacob

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2020, 01:52:32 PM »
I think we'd have to see the content of the prayer.  The wording and how the prayer is addressed is an important feature.

It's on page1796 for those with a copy of the Angelus hand missal.

In any case, I asked Father Z yesterday after his streaming Mass on Youtube and he looked at his own copy and expressed his opinion that he wouldn't want the laity saying that prayer on their own.

Today he expounded on it some more.  I couldn't hear it.


It starts at 58 minutes.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 02:25:48 PM by Jacob »
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Online Miriam_M

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2020, 02:16:42 PM »
Thank you, Jacob.  Thank you for bringing this to our attention, as I'm sure many SD'ers use this missal (although I do not) and might be naturally inclined to say those prayers.  Great work for looking into this.  I did  listen to the segment.  (I'm not sure why you said you couldn't hear it.) 

For anyone on the forum who might not know the reasoning behind why some prayers are reserved for priests, not laity, it has to do with both the singular  "graces of the priesthood" (quoting Fr. Z there) and, in Fr. Ripperger's explanations in his many audio sermons, the authority confined to the priesthood.

The demons strictly and exclusively respond to authority, and they recognize who does and does not have authority.  Crossing such a boundary invites demonic activity into a lay person's life. 

I do trust the Command prayer that Fr. R passed along (apparently through Fr. Z, and I'm sure when Fr. Z references in that video 'having checked with someone he respects as an authority on these matters,' he means Fr. R).  Fr. R would not have allowed Fr. Z to publicize the Command prayer which I posted in our Prayer Intentions forum if it were dangerous for laity to say it.

The only remaining question I would want to ask Fr. Z is why he hesitates about the longer St. Michael prayer when he says that "probably some priests say it," and in so saying indirectly implies that laity should not, which he reinforces at the end by encouraging us to pray the shorter version.

I'd like an explicit reference from a book or link if anyone has it, whether the longer St. Michael prayer is discouraged for laity, and if so, why.
 

Online Miriam_M

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2020, 02:18:37 PM »
...adding that I also appreciate that Fr. Z is going to contact Angelus Press about this correction.  Great service to Catholics you did there, Jacob.
 
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2020, 04:51:06 PM »
...adding that I also appreciate that Fr. Z is going to contact Angelus Press about this correction.  Great service to Catholics you did there, Jacob.
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Offline Jacob

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 08:05:23 PM »
(I'm not sure why you said you couldn't hear it.) 

I'm deaf.  If there are no captions, I'm out of luck.
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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2020, 02:07:39 AM »
(I'm not sure why you said you couldn't hear it.) 

I'm deaf.  If there are no captions, I'm out of luck.

Ah.  You probably told us that long ago.  Somehow that does strike me as familiar. 

It wouldn't hurt anyone recording a talk or sermon to provide captioning as a service to the deaf.  I'm sure there are many simple favors that could be provided to make the lives of people with any disability much easier.

Following up on my end, Jacob, I did inquire about the long St. Michael prayer.  Since it does contain what is called "a minor exorcism," laity should not use it.  Upon more investigation, however, I have found two very different versions of the long St. Michael Prayer.  I think the one circulating most often is much less "exorcist" in nature than the second one I found today, which is direct and definitely a kind of formula a priest would be authorized to use, but not a lay person.

You all can judge for yourself the differences between these:

https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/b009rpMichael.htm

https://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=682
 

Offline Acolyte

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2020, 04:56:12 PM »
 From the second link...
"The faithful also may say it in their own name, for the same purpose, as any approved prayer."

What does that mean, in our own name ?
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 08:42:09 AM »
What does that mean, in our own name ?

I doubt "name" is to be taken literally, as our own names don't have power over the devil. I think it just means "without jurisdiction".

If the prayer is an actual exorcism though, I don't see how an ordinary layman would even be able to pray it. Because as I understand it, only ordained exorcists can perform exorcisms. And most laymen are not ordained exorcists.
 

Online Miriam_M

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 01:31:19 PM »
From the second link...
"The faithful also may say it in their own name, for the same purpose, as any approved prayer."

What does that mean, in our own name ?

I interpret that as just being on our own part, not in the name of a priest, in the name of Jesus Christ (the latter which priests are allowed to say, because they are in persona Christi in such functions).
 
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Online Miriam_M

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Re: Exorcism prayer in Angelus missal
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 01:34:16 PM »

If the prayer is an actual exorcism though, I don't see how an ordinary layman would even be able to pray it. Because as I understand it, only ordained exorcists can perform exorcisms. And most laymen are not ordained exorcists.

Correct.  But the point is that such unauthorized attempts challenge the demons, who then try to thwart the person who is usurping authority.  This is a big no-no, according to exorcists.
 
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