Author Topic: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally  (Read 839 times)

Offline The Theosist

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2020, 07:35:34 PM »
Of course you'll claim it not worth your time, because you're afraid to watch it and unable to respond to its content.

It's not worth my time, or anyone's, because of three main things:

Yet it was "worth your time" to write something in this thread. Next time, if you have neither anything constructive to offer nor any criticism based in a consideration of the actual object of that criticism, spare us.

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1. Dr. Ally is not an orthodox representative of Sunni Islam. I've watched him before with Dr. James White and I felt it was a waste of time;

And I re-assert,  there's nothing heterodox about the Ally's claims concerning the Bible and Jesus Christ in this video, nor his presuppositions and arguments; they are standard to Islamic apologists and their attacks upon Christianity.

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2. Dyer is a man that changes his religion quicker than you change a baby's diaper. I don't feel motivated to spend 2h30 hours of my life listening to another internet apologist that is set to "demolish" another religion but can't make up his own mind about what he believes;

What you call not being able to make up his mind I call evidence of an honest search for truth in a world of lies, and what you call not being "motivated" I call evasion.

If you can't be bothered to actually watch what you're addressing, don't address it. It's presumptuous, tendentious and stupid

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3. These issues have been debated to death. It's only profitable to learn about this divide between Christian and Islamic theology from mature and serious debaters from each camp like Fr. Pacwa, Dr. White, Abdullah Kunde or Dr. Ataie, for instance. Even better is to dive into the traditional sources and theological schools yourself and enrich your perspective in that matter. Polemics and debates can only go so far.

These issues, just like those of Protestantism, have not been debated from the perspective of Eastern Orthodox theology and a sophisticated philosophical basis that is, unlike those of most Catholic and Protestant apologists, fundamentally at odds with the presuppositions underlying Islamic theology and apologetics. That is one of the most telling things about the video. Ally was a fish out of water.

Jay Dyer is a serious debater, for all his goofy humour, and the given the indirect exchanges between him and James White, it's evident enough who is both on the right side would dominate any debate between the two.

You want to be banned again, don't you?

Don't tell me "Fleur-de-Lys" is not your sockpuppet. "She" follows you about like a sick puppy, likes all your posts, and concurs with everything you say, particularly whenever Islam is the subject. If that's real, it's actually quite pathetic.

 
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Offline Fleur-de-Lys

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2020, 07:36:21 PM »
Past participles can and do function as adjectives, whether alone or as part of a phrase. If you cannot understand that or the difference between providing evidence and making baseless assertions then we are at an impasse.

By all means, continue with your demolition of Islam.
 
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Offline The Theosist

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2020, 07:43:52 PM »
Past participles can and do function as adjectives, whether alone or as part of a phrase.

You're just parroting of something you read. It's not based in any consideration of the logic of a construction like "a book entitled xyz". If "entitled" on its own is functioning as an adjective in that construction, then "entitled xyz" is unintelligible nonsense, because that phrase requires entitled to act as a verb in order to make sense. It is that phrase which, considered atomically, is acting as an adjective. This is called an argument, woman, and in this case it is proof. But this is typical of a female, namely the inability to actually analyse and think for herself - which is why the number of women in history to have had an original intellectual idea can literally be counted on one hand.

She says "evidence" but she means "cite an authority - analytic arguments not allowed".
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 07:49:59 PM by The Theosist »
 

Offline Fleur-de-Lys

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2020, 07:49:17 PM »
Don't tell me "Fleur-de-Lys" is not your sockpuppet. "She" follows you about like a sick puppy, likes all your posts, and concurs with everything you say, particularly whenever Islam is the subject. If that's real, it's actually quite pathetic.

It's sick, pathetic, and seems unreal to have someone who regularly agrees with you and supports you when you are attacked?

Maybe someday you'll know what it's like to have someone who likes you, Theosist.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2020, 07:53:19 PM »
If you can't be bothered to actually watch what you're addressing, don't address it. It's presumptuous, tendentious and stupid

Since you have proven, time and again, that you can't be bothered to engage meaningfully with Islamic theology on its own terms and to deal with it fairly and objectively, I suggest you follow your own advice.

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These issues, just like those of Protestantism, have not been debated from the perspective of Eastern Orthodox theology and a sophisticated philosophical basis that is, unlike those of most Catholic and Protestant apologists, fundamentally at odds with the presuppositions underlying Islamic theology and apologetics. That is one of the most telling things about the video. Ally was a fish out of water.

Ah, so you're enamored with Eastern Orthodoxy now. And Palamism, I suspect.

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Don't tell me "Fleur-de-Lys" is not your sockpuppet. "She" follows you about like a sick puppy, likes all your posts, and concurs with everything you say, particularly whenever Islam is the subject. If that's real, it's actually quite pathetic.

Fleur is a real lady, a mother and a teacher who has had the holy patience to endure your rudeness and degrading behavior.

The only sockpuppet here is you, Kreuzritter.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline The Theosist

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2020, 07:53:57 PM »
Don't tell me "Fleur-de-Lys" is not your sockpuppet. "She" follows you about like a sick puppy, likes all your posts, and concurs with everything you say, particularly whenever Islam is the subject. If that's real, it's actually quite pathetic.

It's sick, pathetic, and seems unreal to have someone who regularly agrees with you and supports you when you are attacked?

Maybe someday you'll know what it's like to have someone who likes you, Theosist.

I apologise. I didn't realise you are so emotionally attached to him.
 
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Offline The Theosist

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2020, 07:58:24 PM »
If you can't be bothered to actually watch what you're addressing, don't address it. It's presumptuous, tendentious and stupid

Since you have proven, time and again, that you can't be bothered to engage meaningfully with Islamic theology on its own terms and to deal with it fairly and objectively, I suggest you follow your own advice.

I engage with Islamic theology, as I engage with all things, on the terms of my world view. What you're asking for is relativistic nonsense, and we see in your case how it reaches peak absurdity when you start insisting that the propositions of Islamic jurisprudence on sex with a pubescent child be taken into account in judging Mohammed's rape of a nine-year-old girl.

 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2020, 01:29:12 AM »
2. Dyer is a man that changes his religion quicker than you change a baby's diaper. I don't feel motivated to spend 2h30 hours of my life listening to another internet apologist that is set to "demolish" another religion but can't make up his own mind about what he believes;

Aren't you on your 3rd or 4th? Traditional Catholic to Anglican/Reformed back to Catholic to Hopeful Fatalist/Muslim?

Those in glass houses and such.

Not really.

Unlike Dyer, and many others that haunt religious forums online, I've never left the Church I was born in, nor do I make a living out of cheap polemics on YouTube. Do not confuse my recognition and acceptance of the inescapable paradoxes of Traditional Catholicism with changing religion.

I'm glad you haven't changed religion (indeed I heard it said you are a still a devout practicing Catholic) but putting "Hopeful Fatalist" in the field generally used for "religion" is confusing to say the least... as is studying Islam as deeply as you do. 
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 01:42:53 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline Santantonio

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2020, 11:57:13 AM »
Jay Dyer doesn't know the first thing about Catholicism, and his understanding of Orthodoxy is quite limited in scope
and very biased. The ignorance of history is astounding. His attitude in debates is extremely confrontational, egotistic
and annoying. The last time I heard him - I will not ever listen again - is when Reason and Theology banned him after
his unnecessarily insulting and rude treatment of Erik Ybarra. Ybarra deserves much respect for putting up with Dyer's
shameful tactics. Another critic of Jay Dyer, Luc Dauvin (his channel was Luc Dauvin Horseshoer) got so irate at Dyer
he would go off - and his You Tube channel has been shut down for reasons unexplained.

I do not respect Dyer as a supposed Christian or a commentator.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 11:58:48 AM by Santantonio »
 

Offline The Theosist

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2020, 11:38:56 AM »
Jay Dyer doesn't know the first thing about Catholicism, and his understanding of Orthodoxy is quite limited in scope
and very biased. The ignorance of history is astounding. His attitude in debates is extremely confrontational, egotistic
and annoying. The last time I heard him - I will not ever listen again - is when Reason and Theology banned him after
his unnecessarily insulting and rude treatment of Erik Ybarra. Ybarra deserves much respect for putting up with Dyer's
shameful tactics. Another critic of Jay Dyer, Luc Dauvin (his channel was Luc Dauvin Horseshoer) got so irate at Dyer
he would go off - and his You Tube channel has been shut down for reasons unexplained.

I do not respect Dyer as a supposed Christian or a commentator.

The first statement is simply a lie. So is the second about an ignorance of history. And Ybarra was only insulted for being an idiot after being repeatedly confronted on presuppositions underlying his specious “proofs“ of papal claims from his tendentious readings of ancient Patristic and conciliar texts, to which he had no answer and seemingly didn’t even understand the problem.
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2020, 05:24:57 PM »
 
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Offline dellery

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2020, 09:15:39 PM »
Don't tell me "Fleur-de-Lys" is not your sockpuppet. "She" follows you about like a sick puppy, likes all your posts, and concurs with everything you say, particularly whenever Islam is the subject. If that's real, it's actually quite pathetic.

It's sick, pathetic, and seems unreal to have someone who regularly agrees with you and supports you when you are attacked?

Maybe someday you'll know what it's like to have someone who likes you, Theosist.

Not condoning Theosist's attitude and above post, but this was a shockingly nasty thing to write.
Bean-Curd Tiger
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2020, 10:21:45 AM »

Ah, so you're enamored with Eastern Orthodoxy now. And Palamism, I suspect.


Wouldn't surprise me if Theosist was actually Mr. Dyer himself. His style of argumentation on this forum seems similar to Dyer's (although he hasn't brought up the cringe conspiracy pandering yet, although Dyer himself is obviously self-aware of the total nonsense he spreads on the topic of conspiracies if you listen to him for a second).

And Palamism and Thomism are both flawed, incoherent (logical) systems which justify their illogicality on the basis of the incomprehensibility of God.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 10:26:50 AM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2020, 10:26:04 AM »
Vetus Weirdo will like this

https://twitter.com/CatholicArena/status/1314619209587003392

What I find hilariously sad is that you know this priest knows nothing about the Melkite, Maronite, Coptic, or Syriac Catholic traditions.
 

Offline The Theosist

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Re: Jay Dyer wrecks Islamic apologist Dr. Shabir Ally
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2020, 10:56:20 AM »
It's obvious this is all nonsense and Jay isn't being serious. I mean, conspiracies? Seriously?



« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 10:59:03 AM by The Theosist »