Author Topic: bread making, yeast question  (Read 619 times)

Offline diaduit

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bread making, yeast question
« on: June 25, 2020, 03:30:17 AM »
So after 17 years I've finally cracked my yeast bread making but I'm still at the basics.  With Covid now there is a shortage of yeast and I'm trying to learn skills for when SHTF.  I have made my own yeast water and my own yeast starter.  The dough when proofing didn't rise but when I baked it it rose beautifully.  Yet the taste wasn't really as nice as the powdered yeast, bit fermented smelling! I know fermenting is part of the process but all the same this was strong.

Q: does anyone make their own yeast and what proportions tio flour do you use.  Ideally I'd like a recipe where you use the yeast water straight into the flour but I can't find one.

Munda, your the bread queen here ,  I'd love some input.  Did you get your mixer?

Other skills I want to develop are making moonshine or poteen as its called here in Ireland.....and I'm getting goats in September :)

 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2020, 07:42:41 AM »
Goats!  :grouphug:
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2020, 10:23:26 AM »
I assume by yeast water you mean sourdough starter?  I can definitely try and walk you through getting one going and helping you trouble shoot.  If your bread didn't rise during proofing, then it won't taste as good, regardless of the yeast you use.  Your yeast, whether natural or commercial, should double your dough.  And it shouldn't be overly fermented tasted.  The taste of some breads with sourdough vs. yeast is different, for sure, but with some others (like bagels and english muffins), you really can't tell the difference.  Commercial yeast breads are a bit softer, too, in general.  Generally, a really good sourdough loaf will actually be superior in flavor and texture, in my opinion.  But, sometimes, depending on what you want the bread for, that softer and milder taste/texture just fits the bill.  I purchased 2 lbs. of dry yeast from amazon, and have it stored in my fridge.  It should last a long time.  Keep in mind that you can stretch your dry yeast further, by letting the dough rise longer.  The more yeast, the faster the rise (obviously).  This is true for both sourdough and commercial yeast, but natural yeast will always take longer than commercial.  You can experiment with recipes to see how little yeast you can get away with using in a recipe for it to be effective, but not wasteful with your yeast.  What you spend in yeast, you save in time; and vice versa.

With yeast water (I'm still not exactly sure what you mean by that, so an explanation would help), is it doubling in volume when you mix it, and does it look nice and bubbly/frothy when you mix it with your dough?  If your starter won't double in volume, then your bread won't either, and the finished product will be sub par.  One good way to test and see if your starter is "ripe" (ready and able to rise dough) is to drop a spoonful in a glass of cool water.  If it floats, it's activated and ready.  Also, your finished dough should be nice and fluffy, yet firm.  You want it to not be overproofed, either, so that it still has enough rise left in it to give you that final oven spring when you bake it. 

No, I have not gotten my mixer.  From what I read, the Kitchen Aid, 8 qt. commercial mixer is really the best for home use.  It's almost $700, though!  I'm not sure I want to shell out that much or not, even if I do save up enough amazon points to get it free.  I'm kind of holding out for a deal, and keeping my eye out for a used, cheaper version.  If I can get a good deal on one, I'll get it, but I don't really want to pay full price at this point in time. 
 
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Offline diaduit

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2020, 04:27:31 PM »
I made yeast water with raisins in water and sugar, let it ferment for 4 days, feed it and then I did a yeast starter with it using flour. This mix is what I used as a yeast. 
What I was thinking is to add water straight to flour for kneading and I think it can be do e but there's a thing called hydration when working out the quantities......and that's where I thought hmmmm I better ask 😉
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2020, 09:37:03 PM »
I made yeast water with raisins in water and sugar, let it ferment for 4 days, feed it and then I did a yeast starter with it using flour. This mix is what I used as a yeast. 
What I was thinking is to add water straight to flour for kneading and I think it can be do e but there's a thing called hydration when working out the quantities......and that's where I thought hmmmm I better ask 😉

I'm still not completely sure I understand your process.  So, when you mix your initial dough, do you take a portion of your yeast water (let's call it 'starter'), then mix all the other ingredients (water, flour, salt, and maybe some olive oil or honey); then, you feed the starte with equal parts flour and water, so that the starter doesn't die?  If so, that is the correct process.  You should not be re-making the starter from scratch every time.  You should be making sure it's activated first (you can tell it's activated if it has doubled in volume since it has last been fed, and it floats in a cup of cool water), using a portion of it to mix a batch of dough, re-feeding it, then storing it in the fridge for the next time you want to bake (or on the counter if you bake daily).  To get the initial batch of starter going is another process all together.

Hydration is the term for the amount of water in either the starter or the final dough after mixing, relative to the amount of flour.  So, for the starter, a 100% hydration starter means there are equal parts (preferably by weight, not volume) water and flour.  In the final dough, let's say you use 1000 g flour.  A 65% hydration dough would mean you used 650 g water to build the dough.  Hopefully that makes sense  :)  it gets confusing when you start using bakers percentages, and I'm not really all that great at it at this point.
 
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Offline diaduit

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2020, 10:54:27 AM »
Munda, you've explained hydration perfectly thank you.

Yes I'm feeding the starter now. I have about 300mls of yeast water in another bottle, I want to mix it straight into the flour, salt and a little olive oil but I do t have a recipe for it.
I think I'll go ahead and just do it and see.
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2020, 11:00:46 AM »
I don't think yeast water just as is (fermented raisins in sugar water) will work as a leavening agent, but you can certainly try.  Let us know how it turns out.
 
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Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2020, 02:35:28 PM »
Double post.... sorry
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 02:42:20 PM by MundaCorMeum »
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2020, 02:41:39 PM »
I was intrigued by the yeast water idea, and found this article, with a recipe:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2020/02/24/baking-bread-with-a-yeast-water-starter#:~:text=But%20then%20there's%20this%20%E2%80%9Cyeast,for%20a%20regular%20sourdough%20starter.&text=When%20you%20want%20to%20bake,overnight%2C%20and%20off%20you%20go.

I can't say I'm sold on the idea, though.  My impression after reading more about it is that it will work, contrary to what I initially thought, but it won't create as good a loaf as regular sourdough.  For one thing, the longer you use your sourdough starter, the more active it gets and better it works.  The quality and flavor of your loaves increase over time, as you continue to use and refresh your starter.  Essentially what you are doing with yeast water, is creating a brand new sourdough starter from scratch, each time you bake with it:  mix equal parts yeast water with flour, let it activate, and then that is your yeast for the bread dough.  It's interesting.  It's almost like using commercial, powdered yeast, but in a liquid form.  It just takes infinitely longer to activate.

It won't be as strong in the rise department as a well established, aged starter is.  But, you may find you really like it.  One of the cons listed in the article is that there is no wasting of starter or flour when you need to refresh your sourdough starter.  I actually never run into that issue, because I store my starter in the fridge, and only take it out when I intend to use the starter for baking.  For me, I wouldn't use any less flour by switching to yeast water. Plus, my starter is very active and reliable.  Good ole Boris, as he is fondly known as here, rarely fails me.  If I create a flop loaf of something, it's nearly always user error ;)

 I hope you're successful!
 
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Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2020, 02:43:07 PM »
I don't know what is going on with my formatting up there  ::)
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2020, 07:24:05 PM »
It's the "[" "]", specifically, the location of the "[/quote]"
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2020, 07:27:37 PM »
And, btw, King Arthur Flour, to show solidarity with BLM, announced that they were going to make a sizable donation to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). They, the SPLC, have called several Catholic organizations terrorists. I've sworn off of King Arthur Flour.  :'( :'( :'(
 
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2020, 07:37:56 PM »
It's the "[" "]", specifically, the location of the "
"
[/quote]

I have a feeling it's more me trying to respond on my phone and nurse the baby at the same time  ;D.  I'm not inclined to fix it.... sorry  :D
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2020, 07:38:55 PM »
And, btw, King Arthur Flour, to show solidarity with BLM, announced that they were going to make a sizable donation to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). They, the SPLC, have called several Catholic organizations terrorists. I've sworn off of King Arthur Flour.  :'( :'( :'(

Noooooo!   >:(

 

Offline Lynne

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Re: bread making, yeast question
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2020, 07:45:32 PM »
It's the "[" "]", specifically, the location of the "
"

I have a feeling it's more me trying to respond on my phone and nurse the baby at the same time  ;D.  I'm not inclined to fix it.... sorry  :D
[/quote]

I'm jealous!  :baby5:
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”