Author Topic: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open  (Read 393 times)

Offline Bernadette

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Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« on: May 22, 2020, 06:47:17 PM »
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1213106

Iím not ready to go to a crowded Mass just yet. But Iím probably in the minority.
"Make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found."
 
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Offline clau clau

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 03:28:26 AM »
I've been ready since day 1.
Would you like to shake hands with Pope 1 or Pope 2 -
 me (inspired by Dr Seuss) see: https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Thing_One_and_Thing_Two

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 04:27:43 AM »
I am ready so long as I do not have to wear a mask.  I haven't worn a mask, and I don't even own one. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 07:34:48 AM »
Good for President Trump.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 01:23:35 PM »
I am ready so long as I do not have to wear a mask.  I haven't worn a mask, and I don't even own one.

Replying from phone because still canít reply from computer...

I think Catholics should refuse to wear them. And this is for many reasons, including spiritual.

And if bishops or individual priests insist on the faithful wearing them, we do not resume financial contributions until these men stop being primary servants of the State and start behaving like ordained men.
 

Offline martin88nyc

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 02:07:05 PM »
I am ready so long as I do not have to wear a mask.  I haven't worn a mask, and I don't even own one.

Replying from phone because still canít reply from computer...

I think Catholics should refuse to wear them. And this is for many reasons, including spiritual.

And if bishops or individual priests insist on the faithful wearing them, we do not resume financial contributions until these men stop being primary servants of the State and start behaving like ordained men.
BRAVO well said
"These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world." John 16:33
 
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 04:58:09 PM »
Go to Mass but don't swallow all that doo doo about wearing a mask.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Bernadette

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 05:03:03 PM »
Replying from phone because still canít reply from computer...

I think Catholics should refuse to wear them. And this is for many reasons, including spiritual.

And if bishops or individual priests insist on the faithful wearing them, we do not resume financial contributions until these men stop being primary servants of the State and start behaving like ordained men.
Why should Catholics refuse to wear them?
"Make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found."
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 05:52:55 PM »
Replying from phone because still canít reply from computer...

I think Catholics should refuse to wear them. And this is for many reasons, including spiritual.

And if bishops or individual priests insist on the faithful wearing them, we do not resume financial contributions until these men stop being primary servants of the State and start behaving like ordained men.
Why should Catholics refuse to wear them?

For a host of reasons, but I invite those who thanked my post to offer their own Catholic reasons.

My top reason, among others, is that it signifies a profound lack of trust in God.  Profound. 

Again, as I've said, if you are so terrified of a virus and will be so preoccupied at Mass as to feel the necessity to wear a mask, do not go to Mass.  Even if there were no dispensation, or is not in your diocese, you would be excused based on fear of contracting an illness, should that fear be warranted in your individual case (immunocompromised, for example, which could apply to any age of person). 

Then there are medical reasons.  For example, do you plan to receive HC, Bernadette?  And if so, explain how you will do that:  with a mask on?  I don't think so.  The point is that the moment you pull down your mask, you will expose -- much more -- the priest, anyone assisting the priest (a server carrying a paten, for example), people to the right and left of you --should there be those-- etc. because you will have droplets you are expiring, since those masks cause droplets to build up around your chin, mouth, and nose.  They do so much more intensively than when one is not wearing a mask.

An apostolate far from me -- to which I am traveling for the unannounced public attendance of "private" Masses, have placed hymnals across every other pew.  This means, obviously, no one is to sit there.  That visual "sign" tells us that we are to alternate pews, and within those pews, to sit apart.  This is just common sense for the moment; no announcement has been made, or need be made.  No one wears a mask.  No one is "ordered" to wear a mask.  There's no suggestion about wearing a mask, written or oral.  We have our confessions heard in non-masked, traditional confessionals. Neither the penitent nor the priest is wearing a mask.
 
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Offline The Curt Jester

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 06:03:15 PM »
I would also point out that people are touching things in the church.  Take as many precautions as you want, I guarantee there will be multiple people touching multiple surfaces.  Those same people will likely touch their own faces when removing masks.  They will also periodically touch their masks to adjust them, thus making the masks hotbeds of germs which are attached to the the very worst place.  Those who obey the bishops in their ridiculous mandates about receiving in the hand will cause a lot more to pass between the people and the priest since touch occurs more frequently with CITH.  The whole thing is a fiasco.
The royal feast was done; the King
Sought some new sport to banish care,
And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool,
Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

The jester doffed his cap and bells,
And stood the mocking court before;
They could not see the bitter smile
Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head, and bent his knee
Upon the Monarch's silken stool;
His pleading voice arose: "O Lord,
Be merciful to me, a fool!"
 
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Offline Bernadette

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 06:20:59 PM »
Fair enough.
"Make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found."
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 06:23:26 PM »
Quote
I think Catholics should refuse to wear them. And this is for many reasons, including spiritual.

...What? Why?

Is the government poisoning the masks? And even then, why would that be spiritual to someone who following their conscience in obeying the state (considering the state hasn't compelled immorality)?

Have the demons moved from sitting on unblessed lettuce to face masks?

I hate to be facetious, but seriously, what is the logic behind it?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 06:25:59 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2020, 06:30:20 PM »
I would also point out that people are touching things in the church.  Take as many precautions as you want, I guarantee there will be multiple people touching multiple surfaces.  Those same people will likely touch their own faces when removing masks.  They will also periodically touch their masks to adjust them, thus making the masks hotbeds of germs which are attached to the the very worst place.  Those who obey the bishops in their ridiculous mandates about receiving in the hand will cause a lot more to pass between the people and the priest since touch occurs more frequently with CITH.  The whole thing is a fiasco.

Indeed.  Far more transmission is likely with CITH than with COTT.  But yes, it is quite doubtful than anyone is so disciplined as never to touch his or her own mask.  Then there is the matter for those of us asthmatics who experience constricted breathing with a mask on.  An asthmatic would spontaneously be lifting/moving a mask to facilitate breathing. 

And children can quite easily carry infection (maybe even more easily than adults, because children are so often asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic), and they may well move their masks.  Young children will regard them as curiosities to play with, etc. 

A mask-wearing schola or choir cannot sing/chant.  Nor can a mask-wearing priest.  And if shamefully secularized bishops want to be legalistic about it, exempting the celebrant and/or servers creates not only an inequality but a scientifically unsupportable position.

The faithful should say to their pastors and bishops:  If you wish to transform the house of God into a physical hospital, hire some nurses and doctors to staff/fill the pews.  But be sure that you universalize your requirements, because otherwise, it is not an antiseptic hospital, but a dishonest and frightened partial simulation of one.  (So the bishops are just adding dishonesty to so many of their other scandalous sins over this, i.m.o.)

The Roman Catholic Church is a spiritual hospital, not a medical one.  Go get a medical degree and work in one if you're obsessed with the eradication of germs and/or want to cure and treat mankind of physical ailments.  Otherwise, here's a thought:  Stay with your State in Life, which (hint) is not medical. Or leave the clerical state and join the medical state.  Your choice.
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2020, 06:31:24 PM »
Quote
I think Catholics should refuse to wear them. And this is for many reasons, including spiritual.

...What? Why?

You already have your answers in Reply 8 and in Reply 12.  Reading is a good idea.
 

Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Trump orders churches to be allowed to open
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2020, 06:43:39 PM »
I wash my hands, clean my fruit & vegetables, wear a seat belt, look both ways before I cross the road.  Do these safety precautions display a profound lack of trust in God?  If not, how is wearing a mask different?

Somewhat related, were people to be noticeably dropping dead all around would that make a difference?  In other words, is it a principle to never be breached or a subjective matter based upon the severity of the situation.