Author Topic: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts  (Read 9533 times)

Offline Lynne

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2020, 02:45:16 PM »
the same day that sweeping changes were made in the SSPX hierarchy for several districts and seminaries internationally.

I haven't heard of that happening...
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Offline Jayne

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2020, 03:38:34 PM »
the same day that sweeping changes were made in the SSPX hierarchy for several districts and seminaries internationally.

I haven't heard of that happening...

I am not sure where it was announced in English.  Here is a translation from the French announcement https://www.riposte-catholique.fr/archives/155570:

Quote
Leavers

Mgr Fellay, until then at the Generalate, appointed in residence at the Saint-Thomas d'Aquin seminary in the United States
Mgr Tissier de Mallerais, appointed in medical residence at the Saint-Pie-X seminary in Ecône
The Abbé Thouvenot, hitherto secretary general, appointed professor at the Ecône seminary
Father Schmidberger, hitherto director of the Zaitkofen seminary, appointed in the district of Germany
Father Wegner, superior, hitherto from the United States district , appointed in the Autiche district
Abbé Brunet, hitherto superior of the autonomous house of Spain and Portugal appointed professor at the seminary of La Reja in Argentina
Abbé Trejo, hitherto superior of the American district of South, named in the district of South America
Father Couture, hitherto superior of the district of Canada, appointed prior of the contemplative house Notre-Dame de Montgardin (Father Laurençon, hitherto prior of the contemplative house Notre-Dame de Montgardin, appointed in the district of France)

The promoted

Father Amozurrutia, hitherto superior of the district of Mexico, appointed superior of the autonomous house of Spain and Portugal
Father Schreiber, hitherto superior of the district of Switzerland, appointed director of the seminary of Zaitkofen
Father Themann, director of the seminary of Australia, appointed superior of the district of Australia
Father Fullerton, hitherto superior of the district of Australia, appointed superior of the district of the United States

Newcomers

Father Foucauld Le Roux, appointed secretary general of the FSSPX
Father Favre, appointed superior of the district of Switzerland
Father MacPershon, appointed director of the seminary of Australia
Father Mouroux, appointed superior of the district of Mexico
Father Cortès, appointed Superior of the District of South America
Father Sherry, appointed Superior of the District of Canada
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Offline diaduit

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2020, 04:10:14 PM »
It's also exposed in time for a  world recession and NWO oppression!

I remember fr Angles, he was liked by a few but very very disliked by alot here.  Caused awful trouble with priests and parishioners alike. Just not a nice man.  However u never heard anything of sexual abuse.

It's so unbelievably sad and it angers me no end that the society engaged in a cover up.....does that surprise me.....not even remotely.
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2020, 04:25:27 PM »
the same day that sweeping changes were made in the SSPX hierarchy for several districts and seminaries internationally.

I haven't heard of that happening...

I am not sure where it was announced in English.  Here is a translation from the French announcement https://www.riposte-catholique.fr/archives/155570:

Quote
Leavers

Mgr Fellay, until then at the Generalate, appointed in residence at the Saint-Thomas d'Aquin seminary in the United States
Mgr Tissier de Mallerais, appointed in medical residence at the Saint-Pie-X seminary in Ecône
The Abbé Thouvenot, hitherto secretary general, appointed professor at the Ecône seminary
Father Schmidberger, hitherto director of the Zaitkofen seminary, appointed in the district of Germany
Father Wegner, superior, hitherto from the United States district , appointed in the Autiche district
Abbé Brunet, hitherto superior of the autonomous house of Spain and Portugal appointed professor at the seminary of La Reja in Argentina
Abbé Trejo, hitherto superior of the American district of South, named in the district of South America
Father Couture, hitherto superior of the district of Canada, appointed prior of the contemplative house Notre-Dame de Montgardin (Father Laurençon, hitherto prior of the contemplative house Notre-Dame de Montgardin, appointed in the district of France)

The promoted

Father Amozurrutia, hitherto superior of the district of Mexico, appointed superior of the autonomous house of Spain and Portugal
Father Schreiber, hitherto superior of the district of Switzerland, appointed director of the seminary of Zaitkofen
Father Themann, director of the seminary of Australia, appointed superior of the district of Australia
Father Fullerton, hitherto superior of the district of Australia, appointed superior of the district of the United States

Newcomers

Father Foucauld Le Roux, appointed secretary general of the FSSPX
Father Favre, appointed superior of the district of Switzerland
Father MacPershon, appointed director of the seminary of Australia
Father Mouroux, appointed superior of the district of Mexico
Father Cortès, appointed Superior of the District of South America
Father Sherry, appointed Superior of the District of Canada

Wow.
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Kansas

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2020, 04:44:44 PM »
As another poster mentioned, Church Militant is not a neutral, dispassionate observer when it comes to the SSPX.  That has to be taken into account when evaluating their accusations in the article.

It seems to me that Church Militant aggregated a bunch of nasty stories and allegations into one article for the purpose of making the SSPX look like a cesspool of filth.  However, these accusations cover a span of nearly three decades.  It's not like all of this stuff happened last year.  The story mentions there are about 600 priests in the SSPX, and if you compare these cases to that base number of clergy, it looks pretty bad.  However, how many priests in total have been a part of the Society over the period of time from the earliest allegations in the article to the latest?  At least a thousand, right?  Maybe closer to two thousand?

No doubt some priests in the SSPX have been monsters.  There have always been Judas' in the Church.

I think the fair approach to these accusations would be to balance them with a time series analysis; looking at the percentage of accused SSPX priests over the last fifty years.  Maybe that data is hard to acquire, but did they at least try to get it?  If they could not get that information, did they try to reconstruct an analysis based on the available data?  How do the FSSP, ICKSP, etc... compare to the SSPX in regards to abuse cases over time?  Are they really an outlier?  If they are, then prove it with math.

I know of an FSSP priest who recently lost his faculties and was sent back to the district house because he was accused of "boundary issues" with children.  Where's the Church Militant article about that?

I think this hit piece is absolutely correlated with Taylor Marshall's newfound, very public respect for the SSPX.  His voice within the traditional movement is definitely ascendant, and his YouTube videos sure do get a lot of views.  This was a business decision on the part of Michael Voris.  No doubt.  He and Marshall were friendly and had made some good videos together.  Voris probably doesn't want his brand tainted by Marshall's SSPX sympathies, so this story was a way of implicitly letting CM's readership know where Michael Voris stands vis-à-vis Taylor Marshall.

Throw all of this into the mixer with the with the Gordon Bros slinging the cookie-cutter Catholic Answers attacks at the Society, the Vatican denying the SSPX their request to engage in doctrinal talks, the reorganization of the SSPX leadership, etc..., and it's clear that there's an organized attack against the SSPX at this time.  My guess is FrancisChurch is very much afraid of loosing tithe-paying Catholics to SSPX chapels as Francis turns the Conciliar Church into a communist NGO, and as people like Marshall discover during this COVID-19 hellscape that the SSPX are serious about dispensing the Sacraments and saving souls. 

By the way, I probably shouldn't post on message boards while I'm simultaneously hung over and wired on Red Bull.   
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 04:48:51 PM by Kansas »
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Offline Fleur-de-Lys

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2020, 04:52:17 PM »
By the way, I probably shouldn't post on message boards while I'm simultaneously hung over and wired on Red Bull.

If everyone followed that advice, the whole internet might look rather different.
 
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2020, 04:53:07 PM »
By the way, I probably shouldn't post on message boards while I'm simultaneously hung over and wired on Red Bull.

If everyone followed that advice, the whole internet might look rather different. boring.

FIFY
 
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Offline diaduit

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2020, 05:08:31 PM »
Sspx kind of hung themselves with the background emails they sent by accident. It's not just about the allegations,.it's about the cover up too.  I mean is there nowhere safe :(
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2020, 05:30:31 PM »
Sspx kind of hung themselves with the background emails they sent by accident. It's not just about the allegations,.it's about the cover up too.  I mean is there nowhere safe :(

The tragicomedy of this whole situation is precisely that the sexual abuse of kids, and its cover-up, has been a beating stick of traditional Catholics against the "Conciliar Church." But, lo and behold, God smacks our heads against the wall yet again. This problem runs deep in every corner of the Church. And Vatican II had nothing to do with it.

Unless celibacy stops being a compulsory discipline and priests can start having wives as they should, this epidemic will likely never end. The amount of weirdos and sexually unbalanced men that are attracted to the priesthood is enormous, trad and non-trad alike. If you couple that with a discipline that restrains what are essentially unrestrainable sexual impulses, and if you value the business image over the sheer justice that should be dished out to these perpetrators for fear of public scandal or diminishment of an already low clerical workforce, then you end up with this tragic state of affairs that will continue to wreak havoc to the lives and the faith of many.

I can't imagine what I would do to a priest that raped my kid or to a bishop who covered it up.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 05:36:04 PM by Vetus Ordo »
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Offline clau clau

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Offline diaduit

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2020, 05:43:04 PM »
We all know the messenger has his own agenda and gripe against the sspx but it still doesn't change the fact that there was a cover up.

On another point, I was at mass shortly after bishop Williamson was expelled and fr Angles wrote a piece that he gave to the priests to read out in the mass centers and one point was his disapproval of anyone who denied the Holocaust especially as he himself had family members who died in concentration camps. Doesn't sound very pro Nazi to me.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2020, 05:50:59 PM »
Sspx kind of hung themselves with the background emails they sent by accident. It's not just about the allegations,.it's about the cover up too.  I mean is there nowhere safe :(

The tragicomedy of this whole situation is precisely that the sexual abuse of kids, and its cover-up, has been a beating stick of traditional Catholics against the "Conciliar Church." But, lo and behold, God smacks our heads against the wall yet again. This problem runs deep in every corner of the Church. And Vatican II had nothing to do with it.

Unless celibacy stops being a compulsory discipline and priests can start having wives as they should, this epidemic will likely never end. The amount of weirdos and sexually unbalanced men that are attracted to the priesthood is enormous, trad and non-trad alike. If you couple that with a discipline that restrains what are essentially unrestrainable sexual impulses, and if you value the business image over the sheer justice that should be dished out to these perpetrators for fear of public scandal or diminishment of an already low clerical workforce, then you end up with this tragic state of affairs that will continue to wreak havoc to the lives and the faith of many.

I can't imagine what I would do to a priest that raped my kid or to a bishop who covered it up.

Clergy of religions that permit them to marry have just as much sexual abuse.  Also teachers, coaches, boy scout leaders, etc. have as much or more sexual abuse and cover-ups than Catholic priests.  Sexual predators seek out situations that give them access to prey.  It has nothing to do with specific characteristics of Catholicism.  The only reason that people have the impression that this is a Catholic problem is because the anti-Catholic media has portrayed it that way.

Yes, sexual abuse of minors is horrific and evil.  Yes, it is especially bad when Catholic priests do it.  But the existence of sexual abuse does not show that there is anything wrong the tradition of priestly celibacy.
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2020, 05:59:49 PM »
V.O. Stated:
Quote
Vatican II had nothing to do with it.
Au contraire, it has a lot to do with it. The relaxation of the discipline of the clergy, and of the life of prayer in religious institutes as well as the loosening up of the screening process of applicants to seminaries was a direct result of the reforms undertaken in the Church because of Vatican II. This resulted in the admission of unworthy candidates into the ranks of the clergy, which bore disastrous fruits in the years that followed the Council.
What Jane stated about celibacy not being the cause, is correct. Its the abandonment of the life of prayer and the practice of the sacraments especially Confession, which leads little by little to the loss of the sense of venial sin, then of Mortal sin; then to the falling into perversion. 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2020, 06:07:29 PM »
Clergy of religions that permit them to marry have just as much sexual abuse.  Also teachers, coaches, boy scout leaders, etc. have as much or more sexual abuse and cover-ups than Catholic priests.


Can you substantiate this claim? Can you provide evidence of the orchestration of "cover-ups" up to the highest levels of such institutions and the defence, hiding and moving of known offenders by them?

Quote
Sexual predators seek out situations that give them access to prey. It has nothing to do with specific characteristics of Catholicism.

The narratives of specific cases seem to me to say otherwise. It's not celibacy that jumps out, but the fear and fawning worship of authority by believers and smug self-belief of the priesthood in its own privilege that prevented cases being taken to secular law enforcement where they belong.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Church Militant: The SSPX is sympathetic to perverts
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2020, 06:12:37 PM »
Clergy of religions that permit them to marry have just as much sexual abuse.  Also teachers, coaches, boy scout leaders, etc. have as much or more sexual abuse and cover-ups than Catholic priests.

The old canard that the others are just as bad or worse. This won't solve anything.

Quote
Sexual predators seek out situations that give them access to prey. It has nothing to do with specific characteristics of Catholicism.

The discipline of priestly celibacy enhances it. There's an inordinate number of men who are sexually unbalanced, or closet homosexuals, in the clerical workforce. Tales of homo-eroticism in seminaries and monasteries have been around for ages, if you're familiar with medieval literature. If we could institute a married clergy alongside voluntary celibates, that would at least help in toning down the problem and weeding out some weirdos. The question of covering up the abuses runs even deeper and it's a moral fault that is not exclusive to Catholicism. However, there's a clear tendency in the Church to want to save face at all times, often at the expense of the victims. When this stuff happened in the "Conciliar Church", trads were in a comfort zone, being able to gloat and throw stones at will at the heretical pederasts. When it happens next door in the SSPX...well, I guess the traditional disciplines and the rigorous tridentine orthodoxy didn't help much either.

Quote
The only reason that people have the impression that this is a Catholic problem is because the anti-Catholic media has portrayed it that way.

This is a mere assertion. It also perpetuates a mindset of victimization that does nothing to address the problem. The problem just keeps coming back, regardless of any bias of the media.

Quote
But the existence of sexual abuse does not show that there is anything wrong the tradition of priestly celibacy.

One thing is certain: if we continue doing things exactly as we've done thus far, the problem will continue. Good luck with that.
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