Author Topic: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything  (Read 3711 times)

Offline Kreuzritter

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This is a no brainer unless one is ideologically retarded. Pain is something. It actually exists. Even if it were a deprivation of something that left one open to the possibility of experiencing pain, that would change nothing about pain's positive existential reality and that what it is not derivable from a negation or perversion of other things.

Yet it's horrific. It's what makes most suffering possible in the first place. Whether it's deformed babies screaming in the throes of pain, people dying in agony from injury or disease, people being tortured, the pain of emotional devastation, and one can go on in innumerable ways, what makes these so horrific to us and so unbearable, even to the point of wanting a cessation of ones existence just to make it stop, is the reality of pain.

Even more, it is the means through which so much evil is done in the world and most evil of man against fellow man.

Truly, even if one wants to argue that pain "naturally" aids survival, the form is hardly necessary for the function, and often the opposite is the case, when pain occurs in spite of the fact that the action causing the pain will save ones life, eg., with amputation of a limb.

I posit that any being responsible for bringing this thing into existence, even in potentia, is a sadistic psychopath.
 
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Offline Exsurge Domine

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2020, 12:54:22 PM »
I have reported this heretical and blasphemous content.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist." - Our Lady of La Salette
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2020, 02:34:58 PM »
I have reported this heretical and blasphemous content.

a) Precisely what dogma does it contradict?
b) Who is it blaspheming?

Answer for yourself or retract your calumny.
 
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Offline Exsurge Domine

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2020, 03:53:26 PM »
I have reported this heretical and blasphemous content.

a) Precisely what dogma does it contradict?
b) Who is it blaspheming?

Answer for yourself or retract your calumny.

God inflicts pain in this world and in the next. Your post is blasphemous filth that can only come from the mind of an apostate. I hope the moderation of this forum will act on it if it's worth its salt.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist." - Our Lady of La Salette
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2020, 04:01:31 PM »
I have reported this heretical and blasphemous content.

a) Precisely what dogma does it contradict?
b) Who is it blaspheming?

Answer for yourself or retract your calumny.

God inflicts pain in this world and in the next.

I'll ask you again:

a) Precisely what dogma does it contradict?
b) Who is it blaspheming?

That shouldn't be too hard for you to answer, given how you present yourself.

Quote
Your post is blasphemous filth that can only come from the mind of an apostate.

Your response is the kind that can only come from a mind with no counter-argument.

Quote
I hope the moderation of this forum will act on it if it's worth its salt.

This place isn't run by the Dimond "Brothers".
 

Offline Exsurge Domine

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2020, 04:03:47 PM »
Your response is the kind that can only come from a mind with no counter-argument.

Your filth is plain as daylight. Heretics aren't to be entertained, they are to be exposed and punished. You've been reported again.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist." - Our Lady of La Salette
 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2020, 04:06:15 PM »
Your response is the kind that can only come from a mind with no counter-argument.

Your filth is plain as daylight. Heretics aren't to be entertained, they are to be exposed and punished. You've been reported again.

It plain as day, and clearer and clear as like the Sun rising from morning to noon with every consecutive post, that you have no argument against what I wrote. You can't even name the dogma whose contradiction would constitute heresy. But I do imagine, going by your attitude, that your conception of God is as of a diabolical beast.
 

Offline Exsurge Domine

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2020, 04:07:34 PM »
Your response is the kind that can only come from a mind with no counter-argument.

Your filth is plain as daylight. Heretics aren't to be entertained, they are to be exposed and punished. You've been reported again.

It plain as day, and clearer and clear as like the Sun rising from morning to noon with every consecutive post, that you have no argument against what I wrote. You can't even name the dogma whose contradiction would constitute heresy. But I do imagine, going by your attitude, that your conception of God is as of a diabolical beast.

Reported again.
"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist." - Our Lady of La Salette
 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2020, 04:09:37 PM »
Your response is the kind that can only come from a mind with no counter-argument.

Your filth is plain as daylight. Heretics aren't to be entertained, they are to be exposed and punished. You've been reported again.

It plain as day, and clearer and clear as like the Sun rising from morning to noon with every consecutive post, that you have no argument against what I wrote. You can't even name the dogma whose contradiction would constitute heresy. But I do imagine, going by your attitude, that your conception of God is as of a diabolical beast.

Reported again.

Yes, keep spamming the mods. That's a great idea. Really. Please continue.
 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2020, 04:11:27 PM »
Note what was nowhere stated by me: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who is Jesus Christ, is the sadistic psychopath who brought pain into existence.

Note also: this is the Non-Catholic Discussion Subforum. By its very nature it will and has to feature views and statements that contradict those of Catholicism.
 
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2020, 08:47:46 PM »
Note what was nowhere stated by me: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who is Jesus Christ, is the sadistic psychopath who brought pain into existence.

Where exactly are you going with this? Who else could have brought creaturely pain into existence, if not the Creator?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 10:43:31 PM by Daniel »
 
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Offline dellery

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2020, 09:10:40 PM »
This is a no brainer unless one is ideologically retarded. Pain is something. It actually exists. Even if it were a deprivation of something that left one open to the possibility of experiencing pain, that would change nothing about pain's positive existential reality and that what it is not derivable from a negation or perversion of other things.

Yet it's horrific. It's what makes most suffering possible in the first place. Whether it's deformed babies screaming in the throes of pain, people dying in agony from injury or disease, people being tortured, the pain of emotional devastation, and one can go on in innumerable ways, what makes these so horrific to us and so unbearable, even to the point of wanting a cessation of ones existence just to make it stop, is the reality of pain.

Even more, it is the means through which so much evil is done in the world and most evil of man against fellow man.

Truly, even if one wants to argue that pain "naturally" aids survival, the form is hardly necessary for the function, and often the opposite is the case, when pain occurs in spite of the fact that the action causing the pain will save ones life, eg., with amputation of a limb.

I posit that any being responsible for bringing this thing into existence, even in potentia, is a sadistic psychopath.

You framed this in a way that makes it hard to argue against. Regardless, I'm not cut out to refute what you wrote.

Forgive me but I'm going to relate something about myself.

As a teenager I was pretty well lost, quite lustful, and bore a child out of wedlock.
My daughter's mother, who was automatically given custody, turned out to be an incredibly abusive person and it got worse as time progressed. The state only enabled the abuse and every time family services would give me temporary custody my daughter's mother would comply with whatever she had to and then get custody back. I hired a lawyer and took my daughter's mother to court to gain custody. My lawyer, a women (what was I thinking?), milked out the whole process with countless unproductive hearings, and the Guardian Ad Litem, another woman (court appointed) did not investigate anything on my behalf, went with my daughter's mother's side of the story, said my daughter was exaggerating, and that I was "somewhat of a religious extremist" because I go to mass and pray a lot. Full custody was granted to my daughter's mother and my visitations were restricted. I've never did anything legally wrong in my life other than pot-smoking and under-age drinking as a teen. This all hurt pretty bad. When my daughter's mother disappeared into the city of Chicago with her, nobody would help me except the Police, but they couldn't do much. After a couple YEARS of no contact with my daughter I fell apart. Typing this out isn't that bad, but it's still impossible for me to speak about all this to anybody without crying.

Eventually, I picked myself up (with help) and soldiered on. Putting myself back together caused me to fix things about myself that had always been broken, but I had always been too weak and apathetic to fix. I can honestly say that I've become a much better person from the turd I always was.

My daughter ran off to me right after her 18th birthday. Now she's attending a private Catholic university, every year has been placed on the Dean's List and receives the Dean's Award, and is also a national collegiate scholar. She get's a full-ride from her academic performance and all I have to pay for is housing.

There were a lot of lessons to be learned from the experience, for both my daughter and I. Most notably for myself: the selfishness of lust, and that bringing a child into the world out of wed-lock is as much a crime against the child as it is God. 

It's hard to say if all the suffering was worth it or not. Who knows how things could've turned out amid different circumstances?
Bean-Curd Tiger
 
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2020, 07:23:47 AM »
Note what was nowhere stated by me: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who is Jesus Christ, is the sadistic psychopath who brought pain into existence.

True, but as Daniel has pointed out, if someone else brought pain into existence, then presumably that entity owes its existence to God.  The only way out would be to set up something like a Zoroastrian system of dualistic theology, where the evil deity does not depend on the good god for his being.  I don't think that can be said of Satan, though, at least not in an orthodox sense.
"The sneakiness of prigs, the conventicle secrecy, gloomy concepts like hell, like sacrifice of the guiltless, like unio mystica in drinking blood; above all, the slowly fanned fire of revenge, of chandala revenge—all that is what became master over Rome."

Rome sank to whoredom and became a stew
The Caesars became beasts, and God—a Jew!
 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2020, 08:11:01 AM »
Note what was nowhere stated by me: the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who is Jesus Christ, is the sadistic psychopath who brought pain into existence.

True, but as Daniel has pointed out, if someone else brought pain into existence, then presumably that entity owes its existence to God.  The only way out would be to set up something like a Zoroastrian system of dualistic theology, where the evil deity does not depend on the good god for his being.  I don't think that can be said of Satan, though, at least not in an orthodox sense.

Or the creator doesn't have power to foreknow the free and unconditioned acts of autonomous subjects or the power to destroy them.
 
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Pain is a positive existence and creation, not a deprivation of anything
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2020, 08:21:04 AM »
Or the creator doesn't have power to foreknow the free and unconditioned acts of autonomous subjects or the power to destroy them.

Point taken, but wouldn't that contradict the notions of God's omnipotence and omniscience?  They are kind of the same thing, I suppose, but this would seem to go against at least one of the two, if not both.
"The sneakiness of prigs, the conventicle secrecy, gloomy concepts like hell, like sacrifice of the guiltless, like unio mystica in drinking blood; above all, the slowly fanned fire of revenge, of chandala revenge—all that is what became master over Rome."

Rome sank to whoredom and became a stew
The Caesars became beasts, and God—a Jew!