Author Topic: Can God forsake you?  (Read 926 times)

Offline gsas

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Can God forsake you?
« on: January 18, 2020, 02:33:10 PM »
There are a number of psalms where David laments that God forsakes him, plus also Jesus cries out once asking why the Father forsakes Him. 

This suggests that there may be many things in hell, that don't belong there and are not meant to be there.

I am guessing, that forsaking something is like the urge that people have to through small objects into such holes that they don't know the bottom of.  Or when toddlers throw their toys out of a moving car.

In fact, discounting the human effort of volunteering some prayers, maybe abortion is in this category too.

So, here is the question, what do you do or say when God has forsaken you? 

« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 03:32:52 PM by gsas »
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2020, 05:09:09 PM »
God does not forsake anyone; even the greatest of sinners.
Christ was not forsaken by God as that would be impossible; Some commentators on Christ being forsaken, to His prayer for the salvation of even the reprobate. 
There is nobody in Hell that should not be there.
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2020, 08:40:24 PM »
God the Father did not utterly forsake His Son (leaving Him to nothing or to Hell) but St. Thomas understands the words to say He forsake Him (or abandoned Him) TO His Passion, His Suffering, His Death.

...in three respects God the Father did deliver up Christ to the Passion. In the first way, because by His eternal will He preordained Christ's Passion for the deliverance of the human race, according to the words of Isaias (53:6): "The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquities of us all"; and again (Isaiah 53:10): "The Lord was pleased to bruise Him in infirmity." Secondly, inasmuch as, by the infusion of charity, He inspired Him with the will to suffer for us; hence we read in the same passage: "He was offered because it was His own will" (Isaiah 53:7). Thirdly, by not shielding Him from the Passion, but abandoning Him to His persecutors: thus we read (Matthew 27:46) that Christ, while hanging upon the cross, cried out: "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" because, to wit, He left Him to the power of His persecutors, as Augustine says (Ep. cxl).

(God the Father was still with Him,  but allowed Him to suffer; it is a difference sense of "forsaken")
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 08:50:27 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2020, 09:02:01 PM »
God does not forsake anyone in the sense you mean gsas!  Anyone in hell is there because they deserved it all by themselves. (They forsook God's mercy).

Do you understand this now, do you believe it?

You worry me, you say such strange things, we contradict them, and you seem to go on believing as before.  I hate having you as a Catholic believe such false and horrific things.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 09:04:58 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline gsas

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2020, 10:31:19 PM »
God does not forsake anyone in the sense you mean gsas!  Anyone in hell is there because they deserved it all by themselves. (They forsook God's mercy).

Do you understand this now, do you believe it?

You worry me, you say such strange things, we contradict them, and you seem to go on believing as before.  I hate having you as a Catholic believe such false and horrific things.

I am in the Mark 9:23-25 situation.  If you have Catholic schools in your country, then you don't have my problem.  I would like to say that I really appreciate when you and you all debunk my heresies and misinterpretations. 

I understand that belief is to build not only by logic but also by the heart as per commandment 1 and 1 chorintians 13.  It took me a long time to get even this far after the Qur'an and evil occult family members, and many people like I are baptized against the explicit prohibition from family and other authorities. I hope I am not getting on any member's nerves with my endless search and speculations for the apostolic truth.

And as for the statement that there is nobody in hell who doesn't belong there, I must confess that I am not convinced.  For example, there is the famous wife of the dictator Stalin, who Stalin subjected to endless daily witchcraft to the point that he destroyed her motherly instinct and she was not able to hug her daughter, before this witchcraft has also made her commit suicide.  So how do we derive from doctrine that she is in hell not because she was forced into there, but because she belongs there?  I confess I really don't understand the doctrine, at minimum from the applications point of view.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 10:46:18 PM by gsas »
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2020, 07:21:59 AM »
So how do we derive from doctrine that she is in hell not because she was forced into there, but because she belongs there?

Well I can't answer your question, but I will point out that maybe she isn't in hell. The Church hasn't declared her to be in hell, and even if she lived a wicked life and died of suicide, we're not in the position to judge her.
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2020, 12:16:19 AM »
God does not forsake anyone in the sense you mean gsas!  Anyone in hell is there because they deserved it all by themselves. (They forsook God's mercy).

Do you understand this now, do you believe it?

You worry me, you say such strange things, we contradict them, and you seem to go on believing as before.  I hate having you as a Catholic believe such false and horrific things.

I am in the Mark 9:23-25 situation.  If you have Catholic schools in your country, then you don't have my problem.  I would like to say that I really appreciate when you and you all debunk my heresies and misinterpretations. 

I understand that belief is to build not only by logic but also by the heart as per commandment 1 and 1 chorintians 13.  It took me a long time to get even this far after the Qur'an and evil occult family members, and many people like I are baptized against the explicit prohibition from family and other authorities. I hope I am not getting on any member's nerves with my endless search and speculations for the apostolic truth.

You are evidently influenced (now and/or in the past) by forces that are anti-Catholic (Satanic, evil, occult).  Don't you think this might be scary to the forum - Satan is powerful, could he influence us through you?  God is more powerful but prayer is needed. 

Could you promise to pray? That is most important of all. I and others will continue to address your reasoning but you'll need help from God too. :pray1:

« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 12:29:57 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2020, 01:18:19 AM »
And as for the statement that there is nobody in hell who doesn't belong there, I must confess that I am not convinced.  For example, there is the famous wife of the dictator Stalin, who Stalin subjected to endless daily witchcraft to the point that he destroyed her motherly instinct and she was not able to hug her daughter, before this witchcraft has also made her commit suicide.  So how do we derive from doctrine that she is in hell not because she was forced into there, but because she belongs there?  I confess I really don't understand the doctrine, at minimum from the applications point of view.

First, is there a "it's-the-bible-truth" account  of Stalin and Stalin's wife such as this; or is this just an account you have heard (no matter how firmly you believe it). It would be just the story a Satanist WOULD tell to put it firmly in YOUR mind that Satan had such power. In other words: A LIE.

In any case, whatever external actions someone is driven to that he/she can't HELP, the EXTERNAL actions are not SINS, so Satan is the loser.  If someone without blame neglected to hug her child, that would not deserve hell unless she freely willed to HATE her child:  WITCHCRAFT cannot produce hate, because that is moving the WILL, which Satan cannot do. If someone was physically forced over the top of a cliff, that would not deserve hell, because it is not freely willed.

It is a simple matter of Catholic Faith that Satan cannot move the will, gsas.  Put up the big-red-THIS-IS-SATANIC-sign whenever THIS claim (or "Satan can force you to hell") comes up. You are just fooled to think otherwise.

It IS true that people putter in Witchcraft and go to hell but it is because they putter WILLINGLY.
If Stalin's wife did this (were the story true) INDEED SHE COULD BE IN HELL - but it would be BECAUSE SHE BELONGS THERE, and chose it (whether she CHOSE to hate her child or CHOSE to kill herself, it would be HER CHOICE and HER FAULT)

 :pray1:

Right now you appear to believe Satan's lie, gsas. REALIZE that this is what you are doing.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 01:33:52 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 08:38:39 AM »
Gsas, Satan is completely and totally a defeated foe, crushed by Our Lord through His Cross and under His Blessed Virgin Mother's Heel. He is like a chained dog and can do absolutely nothing to us unless we are careless and deliberately go near him through foolishness or through mortal sin. Never think of Satan too much. Just focus on Our Lord and Our Lady, pray to them and ask Them to protect you. Call on St. Joseph, St. Michael, all the Saints and all the Angels and all the Holy Souls in Purgatory as well, to dispel any demons afflicting you.

Just trust in Our Lady's Promises and St. Montfort's words on the Rosary, and take care to say it every day without fail: (III) The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies." http://www.themostholyrosary.com/15promises.htm "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day be led astray. This is a statement that I would gladly sign with my blood.~Saint Louis de Montfort" http://www.thepoweroftherosary.com/rosary-quotes.html And all will be well. Strive to say the 15 decades every day. See also: ""Then listen well, you Christians: the Mother of Jesus Christ is all-powerful and she can save her servants from falling into Hell. She is the Sun which destroys the darkness of our wiles and subtlety. It is she who uncovers our hidden plots, breaks our snares and makes our temptations useless and ineffectual.

"We have to say, however reluctantly, that not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned with us; one single sigh that she offers to the Blessed Trinity is worth far more than all the prayers, desires and aspirations of all the Saints.
 
"We fear her more than all the other Saints in Heaven together and we have no success with her faithful servants. Many Christians who call upon her when they are at the hour of death and who really ought to be damned according to our ordinary standards are saved by her intercession.

"Oh if only that Mary (it is thus in their fury that they called her) had not pitted her strength against ours and had not upset our plans, we should have conquered the Church and should have destroyed it long before this; and we would have seen to it that all the Orders in the Church fell into error and disorder.

"Now that we are forced to speak we must also tell you this: nobody who perseveres in saying the Rosary will be damned, because she obtains for her servants the grace of true contrition for their sins and by means of this they obtain God's forgiveness and mercy."

Taken, from Secret of the Rosary, 33rd Rose. Online at Catholic Tradition here: http://www.catholictradition.org/Classics/secret-rosary33.htm
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Offline gsas

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2020, 12:59:27 PM »
God does not forsake anyone in the sense you mean gsas!  Anyone in hell is there because they deserved it all by themselves. (They forsook God's mercy).

Do you understand this now, do you believe it?

You worry me, you say such strange things, we contradict them, and you seem to go on believing as before.  I hate having you as a Catholic believe such false and horrific things.

I am in the Mark 9:23-25 situation.  If you have Catholic schools in your country, then you don't have my problem.  I would like to say that I really appreciate when you and you all debunk my heresies and misinterpretations. 

I understand that belief is to build not only by logic but also by the heart as per commandment 1 and 1 chorintians 13.  It took me a long time to get even this far after the Qur'an and evil occult family members, and many people like I are baptized against the explicit prohibition from family and other authorities. I hope I am not getting on any member's nerves with my endless search and speculations for the apostolic truth.

You are evidently influenced (now and/or in the past) by forces that are anti-Catholic (Satanic, evil, occult).  Don't you think this might be scary to the forum - Satan is powerful, could he influence us through you?  God is more powerful but prayer is needed. 

Could you promise to pray? That is most important of all. I and others will continue to address your reasoning but you'll need help from God too. :pray1:

I am a member of the Flame of Love of the Immaculate Heart of Mary movement.  I have read Elisabeth's diary and the 31-day Consecration book, and pray the basic prayer set of the Flame including the Rosary every day, well almost every day, I miss days sometimes, when the devil upsets me so horribly that I have sky high anxiety and can't concentrate on even one word.  Most days I pray them though.  Because of the work I do, I rarely get time for the 15 decade Rosary, I do only the 5 decade one.  But multiple times in the year, I repeat the Flame's consecration to the BVM, i.e. that I consecrate everything and everybody that I have ever had, have, and will have, past, present, and future, and without exception to the BVM, and after member Xavier here, to St Joseph too from the 1st of this month. 

I do this with children too, and they consecrate all their toys and clothes and furnitures to the BVM too.

But I must say, that I don't understand a few things even with the Consecration, because why are you supposed to repeat it periodically, when you have consecrated all with your whole heart, past present, future, and without exception?  Can some act of stupidity remove your things and people from the BVM even though all is now Her exclusive property and not yours any more to mess up?  Would be good to know the answer to this one.  Anyways, I re-consecrate all periodically.

I don't mean to scare anyone on this forum.  This forum has the most learned and intelligent Catholics, therefore anyone who is a victim of past or ongoing witchcraft, and there are plenty of such victims in ex-soviet and middle-eastern countries, can look up to this forum for understanding, learning, and re-assurance.  Especially considering, that pope Francis himself has acknowledged this problem of the devil showing more and more of its true colors.  This has started by the way a decade or so after the Montfort book was re-discovered and the Age of Mary started, around the mid-1800's.  I must sadly state, that the knowledge that dogmatic Church doctrine catalogs about the evil enemy is still mostly stuck with pre-Marian entries.  People at eastern geographies of the Church are learning this the hard way, and luckily pope Francis is showing signs of considering this.

I use the information you provide on this forum to build my confidence, and to build the confidence of other victims who are Catholics now, most of them still under active persecution by their own family members because they chose to become Catholics.  I guess the western world has no visibility about this, but it is the English language that provides the most easily usable materials to work at this.

 
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Offline gsas

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2020, 01:09:51 PM »
And as for the statement that there is nobody in hell who doesn't belong there, I must confess that I am not convinced.  For example, there is the famous wife of the dictator Stalin, who Stalin subjected to endless daily witchcraft to the point that he destroyed her motherly instinct and she was not able to hug her daughter, before this witchcraft has also made her commit suicide.  So how do we derive from doctrine that she is in hell not because she was forced into there, but because she belongs there?  I confess I really don't understand the doctrine, at minimum from the applications point of view.

First, is there a "it's-the-bible-truth" account  of Stalin and Stalin's wife such as this; or is this just an account you have heard (no matter how firmly you believe it). It would be just the story a Satanist WOULD tell to put it firmly in YOUR mind that Satan had such power. In other words: A LIE.

In any case, whatever external actions someone is driven to that he/she can't HELP, the EXTERNAL actions are not SINS, so Satan is the loser.  If someone without blame neglected to hug her child, that would not deserve hell unless she freely willed to HATE her child:  WITCHCRAFT cannot produce hate, because that is moving the WILL, which Satan cannot do. If someone was physically forced over the top of a cliff, that would not deserve hell, because it is not freely willed.

It is a simple matter of Catholic Faith that Satan cannot move the will, gsas.  Put up the big-red-THIS-IS-SATANIC-sign whenever THIS claim (or "Satan can force you to hell") comes up. You are just fooled to think otherwise.

It IS true that people putter in Witchcraft and go to hell but it is because they putter WILLINGLY.
If Stalin's wife did this (were the story true) INDEED SHE COULD BE IN HELL - but it would be BECAUSE SHE BELONGS THERE, and chose it (whether she CHOSE to hate her child or CHOSE to kill herself, it would be HER CHOICE and HER FAULT)

 :pray1:

Right now you appear to believe Satan's lie, gsas. REALIZE that this is what you are doing.

Then let me ask this question.  Do I understand that by the doctrine that you are explaining above, an act of rejecting your child and giving her to satan, maybe even repeatedly, is not a sin, if it is done under some sort of satanic influence, such as for example an influence like what psychiatrists of hypnotherapy use, to program actions into their patients / victims without their knowledge, then provide triggers to make them execute those?  And how are such medical cases induced by psychiatrists related to the doctrine of the will?
 

Offline gsas

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2020, 01:16:28 PM »
Gsas, Satan is completely and totally a defeated foe, crushed by Our Lord through His Cross and under His Blessed Virgin Mother's Heel. He is like a chained dog and can do absolutely nothing to us unless we are careless and deliberately go near him through foolishness or through mortal sin. Never think of Satan too much. Just focus on Our Lord and Our Lady, pray to them and ask Them to protect you. Call on St. Joseph, St. Michael, all the Saints and all the Angels and all the Holy Souls in Purgatory as well, to dispel any demons afflicting you.

Just trust in Our Lady's Promises and St. Montfort's words on the Rosary, and take care to say it every day without fail: (III) The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies." http://www.themostholyrosary.com/15promises.htm "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day be led astray. This is a statement that I would gladly sign with my blood.~Saint Louis de Montfort" http://www.thepoweroftherosary.com/rosary-quotes.html And all will be well. Strive to say the 15 decades every day. See also: ""Then listen well, you Christians: the Mother of Jesus Christ is all-powerful and she can save her servants from falling into Hell. She is the Sun which destroys the darkness of our wiles and subtlety. It is she who uncovers our hidden plots, breaks our snares and makes our temptations useless and ineffectual.

"We have to say, however reluctantly, that not a single soul who has really persevered in her service has ever been damned with us; one single sigh that she offers to the Blessed Trinity is worth far more than all the prayers, desires and aspirations of all the Saints.
 
"We fear her more than all the other Saints in Heaven together and we have no success with her faithful servants. Many Christians who call upon her when they are at the hour of death and who really ought to be damned according to our ordinary standards are saved by her intercession.

"Oh if only that Mary (it is thus in their fury that they called her) had not pitted her strength against ours and had not upset our plans, we should have conquered the Church and should have destroyed it long before this; and we would have seen to it that all the Orders in the Church fell into error and disorder.

"Now that we are forced to speak we must also tell you this: nobody who perseveres in saying the Rosary will be damned, because she obtains for her servants the grace of true contrition for their sins and by means of this they obtain God's forgiveness and mercy."

Taken, from Secret of the Rosary, 33rd Rose. Online at Catholic Tradition here: http://www.catholictradition.org/Classics/secret-rosary33.htm

I often follow your prayer recommendations, I especially like the "Jesus Mary Joseph I love you save souls" short and effective weapon.  I also read the 15 points of the Rosary Promises every week.  I also must agree with Fr Ripperger too though, that effectiveness of prayer and level of Grace in the praying individual are in strong positive correlation, so our prayers are like chisels and it may be a monumental work for us to move even a fraction of what the infinitely Graced Jesus Christ achieved in moments when meeting His "patients".  So how do we improve on this?  I asked a priest too, at one of the rare days when I can meet a priest, and he didn't know the answer.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 01:20:52 PM by gsas »
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 01:36:48 PM »
Hi GSAS. A very,very,very powerful form of prayer is where we offer the Precious Blood or the Holy Wounds etc of Our Lord Jesus to the Eternal Father. In that case, it's Our Blessed Lord's Infinite Merits themselves that are pleading for us, and in virtue of which we make our pleas.

Please read Catholic Tradition on the Holy Wounds Devotion and its Amazing Seventeen Promises: http://www.catholictradition.org/Christ/holy-wounds.htm
http://www.catholictradition.org/Children/number.htm#17 Promise #2 illustrates the Theology and lived experience behind what I'm talking about (Edit: Also Promise #4) I can vouchsafe for the fact that anyone who continues or perseveres in praying this Holy Wounds Devotion with meditation will have a very deepening knowledge and deeper love of Our Lord Jesus Christ, exactly as He Himself has promised us in  Promise #6.

I pray such prayers throughout the day morning to night, even when I'm at work.

"The following prayers, composed by Our Lord, are to be said using the Rosary beads.

On the large [middle] beads: Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ. To heal the wounds of our souls.

On the small [decade] beads: My Jesus, pardon and mercy. Through the merits of Thy Holy Wounds.

"PROMISES OF OUR LORD FOR THOSE WHO PRACTICE THIS DEVOTION

1. At each word that you pronounce of the Chaplet of the Holy Wounds, I allow a drop of My Blood to fall upon the soul of a sinner.
2. Each time that you offer to My Father the merits of My Divine Wounds, you win an immense fortune.
3. Souls that will have contemplated and honored My crown of thorns on earth, will be My crown of glory in Heaven!
4. I will grant all that is asked of Me through the invocation of My Holy Wounds. You will obtain everything, because it is through the merit of My Blood, which is of infinite price. With My Wounds and My Divine Heart, everything can be obtained.
5. From My Wounds proceed fruits of sanctity. As gold puri fied in the crucible becomes more beautiful, so you must put your soul and those of your companions into My sacred Wounds; there they will become perfected as gold in the furnace. You can always purify yourself in My Wounds.
6. My Wounds will repair yours. My Wounds will cover all your faults. Those who honor them will have a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. In meditation on them, you will always find a new love. My Wounds will cover all your sins.
7. Plunge your actions into My Wounds and they will be of value. All your actions, even the least, soaked in My Blood, will acquire by this alone an infinite merit and will please My Heart.
8. In offering My Wounds for the conversion of sinners, even though the sinners are not converted, you will have the same merit before God as if they were.
9. When you have some trouble, something to suffer, quickly place it in My Wounds, and the pain will be alleviated.
10. This aspiration must often be repeated near the sick: "My Jesus, pardon and mercy through the merits of Thy Holy Wounds!" This prayer will solace soul and body.
11. A sinner who will say the following prayer will obtain conversion: "Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ to heal those of our souls."
12. There will be no death for the soul that expires in My Holy Wounds; they give true life.
13. This chaplet is a counterpoise to My justice; it restrains My vengeance.
14. Those who pray with humility and who meditate on My Passion, will one day participate in the glory of My Divine Wounds.
15. The more you will have contemplated My painful Wounds on this earth, the higher will be your contemplation of them glorious in Heaven.
16. The soul who during life has honored the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ and has offered them to the Eternal Father for the Souls in Purgatory, will be accompanied at the moment of death by the Holy Virgin and the Angels; and Our Lord on the Cross, all brilliant in glory, will receive her and crown her.
17. The invocations of the Holy Wounds will obtain an incessant victory for the Church."


Very Important for our Holy Mother Church today also based on Promise Number 17. It cannot fail.

If you want to say a similar prayer in Latin, which is even powerful, let me know and I will give you.

God Bless You.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 01:46:16 PM by Xavier »
To understand God's Plan for Humanity, and how He has provided the means by which we can minimize the Coming Great Tribulation, read: https://maryrefugeofholylove.com/

Offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, for All Lay Apostolates, and All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2020, 11:11:14 PM »
And as for the statement that there is nobody in hell who doesn't belong there, I must confess that I am not convinced.  For example, there is the famous wife of the dictator Stalin, who Stalin subjected to endless daily witchcraft to the point that he destroyed her motherly instinct and she was not able to hug her daughter, before this witchcraft has also made her commit suicide.  So how do we derive from doctrine that she is in hell not because she was forced into there, but because she belongs there?  I confess I really don't understand the doctrine, at minimum from the applications point of view.

First, is there a "it's-the-bible-truth" account  of Stalin and Stalin's wife such as this; or is this just an account you have heard (no matter how firmly you believe it). It would be just the story a Satanist WOULD tell to put it firmly in YOUR mind that Satan had such power. In other words: A LIE.

In any case, whatever external actions someone is driven to that he/she can't HELP, the EXTERNAL actions are not SINS, so Satan is the loser.  If someone without blame neglected to hug her child, that would not deserve hell unless she freely willed to HATE her child:  WITCHCRAFT cannot produce hate, because that is moving the WILL, which Satan cannot do. If someone was physically forced over the top of a cliff, that would not deserve hell, because it is not freely willed.

It is a simple matter of Catholic Faith that Satan cannot move the will, gsas.  Put up the big-red-THIS-IS-SATANIC-sign whenever THIS claim (or "Satan can force you to hell") comes up. You are just fooled to think otherwise.

It IS true that people putter in Witchcraft and go to hell but it is because they putter WILLINGLY.
If Stalin's wife did this (were the story true) INDEED SHE COULD BE IN HELL - but it would be BECAUSE SHE BELONGS THERE, and chose it (whether she CHOSE to hate her child or CHOSE to kill herself, it would be HER CHOICE and HER FAULT)

 :pray1:

Right now you appear to believe Satan's lie, gsas. REALIZE that this is what you are doing.

Then let me ask this question.  Do I understand that by the doctrine that you are explaining above, an act of rejecting your child and giving her to satan, maybe even repeatedly, is not a sin, if it is done under some sort of satanic influence, such as for example an influence like what psychiatrists of hypnotherapy use, to program actions into their patients / victims without their knowledge, then provide triggers to make them execute those?  And how are such medical cases induced by psychiatrists related to the doctrine of the will?

No, you don't understand correctly.  The very idea of REJECTING and GIVING your child to Satan implies that you are WILLING evil, and it is your own doing and sin.  REPEATING it indicates MORE WILLING (where you are NOT RESISTING).

God has to judge the individual cases as to what small external things can be  caused by force alone (and so are not sins) and what  partly requires the will (and so a sin, even if  a smaller sin if there is some forced influence).  ("Giving" and "rejecting" are WILLED things not external things)

I don't know about psychiatry and hypnotherapy, and probably shouldn't say more.  But where there is no will there is no sin.

 :pray1:
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 11:17:34 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline gsas

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Re: Can God forsake you?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2020, 11:11:36 PM »
Hi GSAS. A very,very,very powerful form of prayer is where we offer the Precious Blood or the Holy Wounds etc of Our Lord Jesus to the Eternal Father. In that case, it's Our Blessed Lord's Infinite Merits themselves that are pleading for us, and in virtue of which we make our pleas.

Please read Catholic Tradition on the Holy Wounds Devotion and its Amazing Seventeen Promises: http://www.catholictradition.org/Christ/holy-wounds.htm
http://www.catholictradition.org/Children/number.htm#17 Promise #2 illustrates the Theology and lived experience behind what I'm talking about (Edit: Also Promise #4) I can vouchsafe for the fact that anyone who continues or perseveres in praying this Holy Wounds Devotion with meditation will have a very deepening knowledge and deeper love of Our Lord Jesus Christ, exactly as He Himself has promised us in  Promise #6.

I pray such prayers throughout the day morning to night, even when I'm at work.

"The following prayers, composed by Our Lord, are to be said using the Rosary beads.

On the large [middle] beads: Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ. To heal the wounds of our souls.

On the small [decade] beads: My Jesus, pardon and mercy. Through the merits of Thy Holy Wounds.

"PROMISES OF OUR LORD FOR THOSE WHO PRACTICE THIS DEVOTION

1. At each word that you pronounce of the Chaplet of the Holy Wounds, I allow a drop of My Blood to fall upon the soul of a sinner.
2. Each time that you offer to My Father the merits of My Divine Wounds, you win an immense fortune.
3. Souls that will have contemplated and honored My crown of thorns on earth, will be My crown of glory in Heaven!
4. I will grant all that is asked of Me through the invocation of My Holy Wounds. You will obtain everything, because it is through the merit of My Blood, which is of infinite price. With My Wounds and My Divine Heart, everything can be obtained.
5. From My Wounds proceed fruits of sanctity. As gold puri fied in the crucible becomes more beautiful, so you must put your soul and those of your companions into My sacred Wounds; there they will become perfected as gold in the furnace. You can always purify yourself in My Wounds.
6. My Wounds will repair yours. My Wounds will cover all your faults. Those who honor them will have a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. In meditation on them, you will always find a new love. My Wounds will cover all your sins.
7. Plunge your actions into My Wounds and they will be of value. All your actions, even the least, soaked in My Blood, will acquire by this alone an infinite merit and will please My Heart.
8. In offering My Wounds for the conversion of sinners, even though the sinners are not converted, you will have the same merit before God as if they were.
9. When you have some trouble, something to suffer, quickly place it in My Wounds, and the pain will be alleviated.
10. This aspiration must often be repeated near the sick: "My Jesus, pardon and mercy through the merits of Thy Holy Wounds!" This prayer will solace soul and body.
11. A sinner who will say the following prayer will obtain conversion: "Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ to heal those of our souls."
12. There will be no death for the soul that expires in My Holy Wounds; they give true life.
13. This chaplet is a counterpoise to My justice; it restrains My vengeance.
14. Those who pray with humility and who meditate on My Passion, will one day participate in the glory of My Divine Wounds.
15. The more you will have contemplated My painful Wounds on this earth, the higher will be your contemplation of them glorious in Heaven.
16. The soul who during life has honored the Wounds of our Lord Jesus Christ and has offered them to the Eternal Father for the Souls in Purgatory, will be accompanied at the moment of death by the Holy Virgin and the Angels; and Our Lord on the Cross, all brilliant in glory, will receive her and crown her.
17. The invocations of the Holy Wounds will obtain an incessant victory for the Church."


Very Important for our Holy Mother Church today also based on Promise Number 17. It cannot fail.

If you want to say a similar prayer in Latin, which is even powerful, let me know and I will give you.

God Bless You.

I have just tried this out.  Wow this is truly so powerful!  I love this prayer!  Thanks for bringing it!
 
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