Author Topic: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read  (Read 2073 times)

Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2020, 06:39:02 AM »
'Darkness at Noon' by Arthur Koestler.

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2020, 08:38:40 AM »
.

I heard they are no longer going to use the Uncle Ben's image on the rice.
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2020, 09:33:28 AM »
"War and Peace"
"Anna Karenina"
"The Death of Ivan Ilyich"
"Family Happiness"
 - all by Tolstoy

These are really necessary reading.
 
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Offline clau clau

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2020, 09:55:09 AM »
.

I heard they are no longer going to use the Uncle Ben's image on the rice.

Yes, I saw that also; which is why I changed my avatar (because it pissed me off).

I have a theory about it. I think the people behind this (Democrats) have a mindset of "the blacks must stay on the plantation".  Back in the times of slavery it was enforced with whips and burning crosses and fear.  That bullshit they teach in US schools about how the racists changed from the Democrat to the Republicans is just that. Hilary Clinton attended Senator Robert Byrd's funeral.

The modern version of the plantation is to keep the blacks living in the hood and voting Democrat.  Any who have the balls to strike out on their own (e.g. Candace Owens, Thomas Sowell, Tommy Sotomayor) are regarded as 'uncle toms' and must be taught a lesson. I've seen examples of this at some of the protests where left wing antifa types are shouting 'nigger' at blacks trying to defend a statue.

Uncle Ben was a successful texan rice farmer. I would have thought that would be cause for celebration that a successful black mans picture was on supermarket shelves across the western world. Same argument goes for 'Aunt Jemina'; but Noooo, our new overlords will not accept that.  'Back to the hood with you and vote democrat boy!'.

Melinda Gates says blacks will be first in line for the Covid19 vaccine.  Yes, of course they will; Eugenics 101.

BLM are scum  edit: ... and Planned Parenthood kills more black people in a 2-week period than the KKK has killed in their entire history.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 10:08:20 AM by clau clau »
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But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
 

Offline Kent

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2020, 10:31:07 AM »
Waugh is essential twentieth-century fiction.  Not just Brideshead Revisited, either, although it's his magnum opus.  I read Vile Bodies not too long ago and I think that book needs to be resuscitated as an anthem for the millennial generation.  The parallels are uncanny, and while I don't think Waugh was trying to predict the future, he did a hell of a job of it.  Probably the most capable satirist to put up the pen since Jonathan Swift.

He also wrote a delightfully politically incorrect book called Black Mischief.  Topical right now.  Apparently it got him in a fair amount of trouble, since it was the first book he wrote after converting to Catholicism, and people were expecting him to not be quite as incendiary and offensive once he started practicing the true religion.  If anything, his conversion probably made him an even more controversial writer.
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that will put me in trust, to love him that is honest, to
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judgment, to fight when I cannot choose, and to eat no fish.
 
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Offline clau clau

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2020, 10:34:18 AM »
Waugh is essential twentieth-century fiction.  Not just Brideshead Revisited, either, although it's his magnum opus.  I read Vile Bodies not too long ago and I think that book needs to be resuscitated as an anthem for the millennial generation.  The parallels are uncanny, and while I don't think Waugh was trying to predict the future, he did a hell of a job of it.  Probably the most capable satirist to put up the pen since Jonathan Swift.

He also wrote a delightfully politically incorrect book called Black Mischief.  Topical right now.  Apparently it got him in a fair amount of trouble, since it was the first book he wrote after converting to Catholicism, and people were expecting him to not be quite as incendiary and offensive once he started practicing the true religion.  If anything, his conversion probably made him an even more controversial writer.

I read "A Handful of Dust" and got really depressed.
Would you like to shake hands with Pope 1 or Pope 2 -
 me (inspired by Dr Seuss) see: https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Thing_One_and_Thing_Two

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
 
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Offline Kent

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2020, 10:38:16 AM »
And of course: Shakespeare.  I am not sure if mentioning Shakespeare is 'cheating', but I see he's gone unmentioned in the thread.  Especially his histories and tragedies (I personally don't care for his comedies all that much).  And especially Macbeth and King Lear.  Lear is my favorite, as might be evidenced by my screen name, avatar, and signature.  Macbeth is, well, Macbeth.  Hard to beat.  The best profile of sin in all of literature, in my opinion.

Hamlet is essentially about the reformation and Shakespeare's discontent over the paltry and ineffective Catholic resistance to Anglican England.  It is overrated in the sense that it draws far too much attention as a sort of existentialist-psychoanalytical piece of literature, which isn't the right way to view it.  But there's lots to unpack and digest if you reject that tendency.

Romeo and Juliet suffers from a similar problem.  It's actually a phenomenal work once you divorce yourself from the common ninth grade reading about egalitarianism and love; really, it's a play about the unreliability of the passions and the kind of havoc they wreak if left to their own.

Antony and Cleopatra is a phenomenal warning against the dangers of being cucked.
I do profess to be no less than I seem, to serve him truly
that will put me in trust, to love him that is honest, to
converse with him that is wise and says little, to fear
judgment, to fight when I cannot choose, and to eat no fish.
 
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Offline clau clau

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2020, 10:55:40 AM »
And of course: Shakespeare.  I am not sure if mentioning Shakespeare is 'cheating', but I see he's gone unmentioned in the thread.  Especially his histories and tragedies (I personally don't care for his comedies all that much).  And especially Macbeth and King Lear.  Lear is my favorite, as might be evidenced by my screen name, avatar, and signature.  Macbeth is, well, Macbeth.  Hard to beat.  The best profile of sin in all of literature, in my opinion.

Hamlet is essentially about the reformation and Shakespeare's discontent over the paltry and ineffective Catholic resistance to Anglican England.  It is overrated in the sense that it draws far too much attention as a sort of existentialist-psychoanalytical piece of literature, which isn't the right way to view it.  But there's lots to unpack and digest if you reject that tendency.

Romeo and Juliet suffers from a similar problem.  It's actually a phenomenal work once you divorce yourself from the common ninth grade reading about egalitarianism and love; really, it's a play about the unreliability of the passions and the kind of havoc they wreak if left to their own.

Antony and Cleopatra is a phenomenal warning against the dangers of being cucked.

I like Macbeth, but then I am biased, that was the play we studied at school for O'Levels (Greg did "The Merchant of Venice").

Thanks you for the tip about Vile Bodies.  I'll read that next (on my Kindle). I have been looking for a new book to get stuck into.  That might fit the bill.

I came up with a good definition of a book one really enjoys which is ... It divides you life in two; 'before' you read the book and 'after'.
Would you like to shake hands with Pope 1 or Pope 2 -
 me (inspired by Dr Seuss) see: https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Thing_One_and_Thing_Two

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2020, 11:24:32 AM »
Waugh is essential twentieth-century fiction.  Not just Brideshead Revisited, either, although it's his magnum opus. 

Very good suggestion. You didn't mention, however, Waugh's true magnum opus, the "Sword of Honour" trilogy.
 

Offline Kent

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2020, 11:38:47 AM »
And of course: Shakespeare.  I am not sure if mentioning Shakespeare is 'cheating', but I see he's gone unmentioned in the thread.  Especially his histories and tragedies (I personally don't care for his comedies all that much).  And especially Macbeth and King Lear.  Lear is my favorite, as might be evidenced by my screen name, avatar, and signature.  Macbeth is, well, Macbeth.  Hard to beat.  The best profile of sin in all of literature, in my opinion.

Hamlet is essentially about the reformation and Shakespeare's discontent over the paltry and ineffective Catholic resistance to Anglican England.  It is overrated in the sense that it draws far too much attention as a sort of existentialist-psychoanalytical piece of literature, which isn't the right way to view it.  But there's lots to unpack and digest if you reject that tendency.

Romeo and Juliet suffers from a similar problem.  It's actually a phenomenal work once you divorce yourself from the common ninth grade reading about egalitarianism and love; really, it's a play about the unreliability of the passions and the kind of havoc they wreak if left to their own.

Antony and Cleopatra is a phenomenal warning against the dangers of being cucked.

I like Macbeth, but then I am biased, that was the play we studied at school for O'Levels (Greg did "The Merchant of Venice").

Thanks you for the tip about Vile Bodies.  I'll read that next (on my Kindle). I have been looking for a new book to get stuck into.  That might fit the bill.

I came up with a good definition of a book one really enjoys which is ... It divides you life in two; 'before' you read the book and 'after'.

Thanks for mentioning Merchant of Venice-- that's an exception to my previous comment about not caring for his comedies all that much. I loved Merchant of Venice, and also The Taming of the Shrew.  It's mostly the other ones that I find to be less interesting.

Everyone to whom I've ever recommended Brideshead has found it a life-changing book (including myself).  I think that you're right.  The mark of a truly good book is if it can segment your life that way. 

Vile Bodies
is depressing, but in a cynically hilarious kind of way.  You'll have to report back when you finish it.  His earlier satires are tremendously quick reads, which is nice.
I do profess to be no less than I seem, to serve him truly
that will put me in trust, to love him that is honest, to
converse with him that is wise and says little, to fear
judgment, to fight when I cannot choose, and to eat no fish.
 

Offline Kent

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2020, 11:40:01 AM »
Waugh is essential twentieth-century fiction.  Not just Brideshead Revisited, either, although it's his magnum opus. 

Very good suggestion. You didn't mention, however, Waugh's true magnum opus, the "Sword of Honour" trilogy.

Do you think so?  I haven't actually finished them.  I have a combined volume, never got very far (I realize this sounds bad from the guy who brought Waugh up).  No particular reason, I think I just got busy with other things and never picked it up again.
I do profess to be no less than I seem, to serve him truly
that will put me in trust, to love him that is honest, to
converse with him that is wise and says little, to fear
judgment, to fight when I cannot choose, and to eat no fish.
 
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2020, 11:54:52 AM »
"War and Peace"
"Anna Karenina"
"The Death of Ivan Ilyich"
"Family Happiness"
 - all by Tolstoy

These are really necessary reading.

Anna Karenina is a wonderful book. My favorite character was the train.

Just kidding, even though I think Tolstoy paints the peasant life as too idyllic rather than harsh, I think the message is wonderful.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 11:56:40 AM by TheReturnofLive »
 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2020, 12:03:37 PM »
And of course: Shakespeare.  I am not sure if mentioning Shakespeare is 'cheating', but I see he's gone unmentioned in the thread.  Especially his histories and tragedies (I personally don't care for his comedies all that much).  And especially Macbeth and King Lear.  Lear is my favorite, as might be evidenced by my screen name, avatar, and signature.  Macbeth is, well, Macbeth.  Hard to beat.  The best profile of sin in all of literature, in my opinion.

Hamlet is essentially about the reformation and Shakespeare's discontent over the paltry and ineffective Catholic resistance to Anglican England.  It is overrated in the sense that it draws far too much attention as a sort of existentialist-psychoanalytical piece of literature, which isn't the right way to view it.  But there's lots to unpack and digest if you reject that tendency.

Romeo and Juliet suffers from a similar problem.  It's actually a phenomenal work once you divorce yourself from the common ninth grade reading about egalitarianism and love; really, it's a play about the unreliability of the passions and the kind of havoc they wreak if left to their own.

Antony and Cleopatra is a phenomenal warning against the dangers of being cucked.

I like Macbeth, but then I am biased, that was the play we studied at school for O'Levels (Greg did "The Merchant of Venice").

Thanks you for the tip about Vile Bodies.  I'll read that next (on my Kindle). I have been looking for a new book to get stuck into.  That might fit the bill.

I came up with a good definition of a book one really enjoys which is ... It divides you life in two; 'before' you read the book and 'after'.

No, I did Henry IV.  Prince Hal and Falstaff, which is a great background for reading Henry V

Oldest son is doing Macbeth.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 12:06:56 PM by Greg »
 

Offline Heinrich

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2020, 01:03:00 PM »
I posit that Falstaff is Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford's most complex character. 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Specifically non-theological classics you recommend people to read
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2020, 02:57:09 PM »
Waugh is essential twentieth-century fiction.  Not just Brideshead Revisited, either, although it's his magnum opus. 

Very good suggestion. You didn't mention, however, Waugh's true magnum opus, the "Sword of Honour" trilogy.

Do you think so? 

Yes. "Sword of Honour" takes the themes of "Brideshead Revisited" and raises them up to a universal, epic level. "Brideshead Revisited" is a personal story, and excellent on that level. But "Sword of Honour" shows the worldwide, catastrophic effects of the same elements. While still retaining Waugh's personal touch -- I just recently came across a description of how tightly "Sword of Honour" followed Waugh's personal experience during WWII, down to many of the small details, although recast in a fictional package.
 
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