Author Topic: SSPX Article:Our Lady of Fatima and the Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary  (Read 3666 times)

Offline awkwardcustomer

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And by the way, Nazianzen, here's the real smoking gun.

Communism was not an error of Russia.

Communism was born in the West and imposed on Russia by force.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Xavier

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What a beautiful statement from Bp. Joseph 13 years after the events on October the 13th: http://www.1260.org/Mary/Apparitions_Fatima/Fatima_Apparition_Approval_en.htm "It remains for us, beloved brethren in Our Lord, to warn you that, if, for us, it is a great reason for joy and consolation, this grace that the Most Holy Virgin has granted us, greater is the obligation on us to correspond with Her goodness." So, it is a Great Grace, and a Greater Obligation incumbent upon us, to correspond to the Maternal Goodness of the Immaculate Heart of the Most Holy Virgin Mother of God, Our Lady Mary. Our Lady of Fatima's Apparition was a Great and Priceless Grace from God for His Church. He has not done in like manner for every people, as the Sacred Scripture says, but He gives such Great Graces for His Catholic Church.

Here's the history of the event: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/getting-fatima-right

"In 1915, as World War I raged in Europe, a Portuguese girl saw something strange in the sky.

The girl—Lucia dos Santos—was seven years old and lived near the town of Fatima. One day, as she was tending her family’s sheep along with three other girls, they began to say the rosary and saw a strange sight.

In the second of four memoirs she would write, Lucia recalled: “We saw a figure poised in the air above the trees; it looked like a statue made of snow, rendered almost transparent by the rays of the sun.” She also wrote, “It looked like a person wrapped up in a sheet.”

They did not know what to make of the sight, and it vanished when they finished praying. The same thing happened on two more occasions.

The angel of peace

In the spring of 1916, Lucia and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Martos (then 7 and 6) began seeing an angel.

It appeared as “a young man, about fourteen or fifteen years old, whiter than snow, transparent as crystal when the sun shines through it, and of great beauty.”

The angel identified itself as “the angel of peace” and as the guardian angel of Portugal. Lucia understood it to be the same figure she had seen in the sky.

The angel appeared to the children on three occasions, taught them prayers, and during the last appearance showed them a host and chalice that hung miraculously in the air. It then gave them Holy Communion.

‘I am from heaven’

On May 13, 1917, the three were again tending their sheep when they perceived what they thought was a flash of lightning. As they hurried home, there was another flash, and they beheld a beautiful woman in a hemlock tree that grew in a field known as the Cova da Iria.

“We beheld a Lady all dressed in white. She was more brilliant than the sun and radiated a light more clear and intense than a crystal glass filled with sparkling water, when the rays of the burning sun shine through it” (Fourth Memoir).

When asked where she was from, the Lady replied, “I am from heaven.” She requested that the children return to the spot once a month for six months.

She also informed the children that they would go to heaven, and she asked if they were wiling to offer themselves to God and bear the sufferings he would send them, in reparation for sin and the conversion of sinners. They replied they would.

She also told them: “Pray the rosary every day, in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war.”

“Jesus wishes to make use of you”

When the Lady reappeared the next month, Lucia asked her to take the three children to heaven, and she replied, “I will take Jacinta and Francisco soon. But you are to stay here some time longer. Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.”

This prediction was fulfilled. In 1918, toward the end of the war, a global flu pandemic took the lives of millions. Among them were Francisco, who died in 1919, and Jacinta, who died in 1920. Lucia would not die until 2005 at the age of 97.

A secret revealed

At the July apparition, the Lady promised that, in October, she would identify herself and perform a miracle so that all might see and believe.

She also gave the children a secret, which included a vision of hell that caused Lucia to cry out. Afterward, the Lady said:

“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

“To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved; etc. . . . Do not tell this to anybody.”

Arrested

The children were prevented from returning to the site on August 13 because the local mayor—an opponent of the apparitions—had the young visionaries arrested. Despite threatening them, he was unable to get them either to admit that they were lying or to reveal the secret.

Pilgrims who had gathered at the site of the apparitions reported strange phenomena. Some said they saw a blue and white cloud descend and then ascend again, some reported lightning, and some reported seeing our Lady.

‘A chapel that is to be built’
Since the children had not been able to come to the site of the apparitions on August 13, the Lady appeared to them a few days later.

When asked what should be done with money that pilgrims were leaving at the apparition site, she indicated that two processional litters should be made for the feast of Our Lady of the Rosary, adding, “What is left over will help toward the construction of a chapel that is to be built here.”

On September 13, large crowds of pilgrims greeted the children and urged them to present their petitions to the Lady.

As the children and the crowd prayed the rosary, she appeared, this time promising, “In October our Lord will come, as well as Our Lady of Dolors and Our Lady of Carmel. Saint Joseph will appear with the Child Jesus to bless the world.”

The miracle of the sun

On October 13, the Lady said, “I am the Lady of the Rosary. Continue always to pray the rosary every day. The war is going to end, and the soldiers will soon return to their homes.”

According to Lucia, the Lady opened her hands, “made them reflect on the sun, and as she ascended, the reflection of her own light continued to be projected on the sun itself.”

Lucia then called for people to look at the sun, and an event called “the miracle of the sun” occurred. Although not everyone claimed to see the phenomenon, numerous individuals reported that the sun appeared to change colors, spin, and “dance” in the sky.

In the wake of this event, the children reported visions of St. Joseph, the Child Jesus, and our Lady in various guises, including Our Lady of Dolors and Our Lady of Carmel, as had been promised.

First Saturdays devotion

In the July 1917 apparition, the Lady had indicated that she would request a devotion involving the First Saturdays of the months.

This request was made on December 10, 1925, when Lucia was a novice among the Dorothean Sisters. On that day, Sr. Lucia experienced an apparition of the Virgin Mary and the Child Jesus, in which Mary said:

“All those who during five months, on the first Saturday, go to confession, receive Holy Communion, say a rosary, and keep me company for fifteen minutes, meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the rosary for the intention of making reparation to me, I promise to assist them at the hour of death, with all the graces necessary for the salvation of their souls” (Documents on Fatima & the Memoirs of Sister Lucia, 279-280).

On January 15, 1926, she experienced an apparition of the Child Jesus, asking if she had spread this devotion, which has come to be known as the First Saturdays devotion.

Consecration requested, apparitions approved

The July 1917 apparition also indicated a request would be made for the consecration of Russia, and this was done on June 13, 1929. On that night, Sr. Lucia experience a vision of the Holy Trinity and the Virgin Mary, in which Mary said:

“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father, in union with all the bishops of the world, to make the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means” (Documents on Fatima & the Memoirs of Sister Lucia, 393-394).

On October 13, 1930, the bishop of Leiria, Portugal—in whose territory Fatima lies—granted formal approval for the 1917 apparitions, declaring “as worthy of credence the visions of the children in the Cova da Iria, parish of Fatima, of this diocese, on the thirteenth day of each month from May to October 1917” (Documents on Fatima & the Memoirs of Sister Lucia, 290).

“An unknown light”

In the July 1917 apparition, the Lady stated that the war (World War I) would end but that a worse one could break out in the reign of Pius XI, who would not be elected until 1922. The sign presaging this event was to be “a night illumined by an unknown light.”

On the night of January 25-26, 1938, an extraordinary display of the aurora borealis was widely visible in Europe. In her Third Memoir, Sr. Lucia interpreted this as the sign indicating the new war was close.

World War II broke out the following year.

The third part of the secret

Between 1935 and 1941, Sr. Lucia wrote a series of four memoirs concerning the 1917 apparitions and her cousins.

In the Third Memoir, she revealed the first two parts of the secret they had been given on July 13, 1917: the vision of hell and the material concerning Russia and the pope, along with the forthcoming requests for the First Saturdays devotion and the consecration of Russia.

However, she did not reveal the third part at that time. On January 3, 1944, at the request of her bishop, Sr. Lucia did record it, placing the text in a sealed envelope, which in 1957 was transferred to the Holy See.

Before giving the sealed envelope containing the third part of the “secret” to the then bishop of Leiria-Fatima, Sr. Lucia wrote on the outside envelope that it could be opened only after 1960, either by the patriarch of Lisbon or the bishop of Leiria. Archbishop Bertone therefore asked: “Why only after 1960? Was it our Lady who fixed that date?” Sr. Lucia replied: “It was not our Lady. I fixed the date because I had the intuition that before 1960 it would not be understood, but that only later would it be understood” (The Message of Fatima; all subsequent quotations are taken from this document).

When 1960 came, the Holy See chose not to reveal the third part of the secret.

Assassination attempt

On May 13, 1981—the anniversary of the first Fatima apparition—a Turkish man named Mehmet Ali Agca shot John Paul II in St. Peter’s Square. The pope almost died from the wound, but surgeons were able to save his life.

Though Agca has repeatedly changed his story, it is widely thought he was acting on behalf of Communist forces wishing to neutralize the Polish pope, who went on to play a key role in the downfall of Soviet Communism.

On July 18, 1981, John Paul II read the third part of the secret for the first time and learned what it contained.

The consecration performed

As early as 1942, Pius XII consecrated the entire world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and in 1952 he specifically consecrated Russia.

Following the assassination, while he was still recuperating, John Paul II had a special act of entrustment performed on June 7, 1981, and it was repeated in Fatima on May 13, 1982.

However, there was a question of whether these fulfilled the request made by the Virgin Mary, as she had asked that the pope perform the consecration “in union with all the bishops of the world.”

Consequently, “in order to respond more fully to the requests of ‘our Lady’ . . . on 25 March 1984 in St. Peter’s Square, while recalling the fiat uttered by Mary at the Annunciation, the Holy Father, in spiritual union with the bishops of the world, who had been ‘convoked’ beforehand, entrusted all men and women and all peoples to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”

Subsequently, in a letter dated November 8, 1989, Sr. Lucia confirmed that the consecration had been done, writing, “Yes, it has been done just as our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984.”

The fall of communism

The Cold War, which began in the wake of World War II, was a tense period. It saw various conflicts; national borders were redrawn (“various nations will be annihilated”), and the world itself was threatened by the prospect of nuclear war.

In 1989, the Soviet bloc collapsed, and in 1991 the Soviet Union itself dissolved, with the Communist Party losing power in Russia.

...

[Edit: I just want to note I don't agree with Jimmy Akin on all his personal opinions; but he mentions some useful information on the history]
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 01:00:10 PM by Xavier »
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: Release of 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline awkwardcustomer

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(Quoting Jimmy Akin)

The Church teaches that private revelations like Fatima do not have the same status as the public revelation God has given us in Scripture and Tradition.

The latter requires the assent of faith, but private revelations—even when approved—do not. The “ecclesiastical approval of a private revelation has three elements: the message contains nothing contrary to faith or morals; it is lawful to make it public; and the faithful are authorized to accept it with prudence.”

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 
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Offline Gerard

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  • .. and his raiment became white and glittering
Quote
The angel appeared to the children on three occasions, taught them prayers, and during the last appearance showed them a host and chalice that hung miraculously in the air. It then gave them Holy Communion.

As had been discussed in a previous thread, this is another little piece of evidence to support the case that Fatima is ultimately an attack on papal authority.  The story goes that Lucia received Holy Communion under the species of bread because she had already made her first Communion.  The two little ones instead were given the wine.  After which they asked Lucia if they had received communion.  It makes no sense to imply there is some kind of need to give the little ones Communion under the species of wine because they had yet to receive their first Holy Communion.  This goes against Pope St. Pius X's decree that the parents and the parish priest were to determine fitness for Holy Communion, meaning they would receive proper instruction.

Also, why an angel?  Why do angels suddenly become what would be later called "extraordinary ministers of the Holy Communion"?  Why not a saint who was an ordained priest? 
Why not St. Anthony of Padua?  He's a saint who was Portuguese and a priest.   

The real "tell" for me on a personal level is the unwillingness of the so-called Fatima experts to even address the points I've brought up.  When I wrote to the Remnant guys, they weren't able to address my concerns (which I wrote respectfully at first).  So rather than exhibit humility and actually explore the issue, they deleted the posts and banned my comments.

 
 

Offline revival2029

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lets unpack this a bit:
we have 2 systems:
1.  The Mystical Body of Christ/Kingdom of Heaven where Christ is the King and Mary is the Queen, and hold all power and authority.
2.  The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, where Christ is the High Priest, and the Master of the Church.

So if Mary got permission from the High Priest, or Master of The Church, or if she got approval from the King of the Kingdom of Heaven, that would suffice.

And to think that the High Priest doesn't have full authority and jurisdiction to administer the sacraments, and use whatever ministers he would like is somewhat laughable. 

Don't take this as an argument to believe in Fatima, I am simply pointing out that the argument is not nearly as strong as one thinks.
 

Offline Xavier

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Quote from: Gerard
The real "tell" for me on a personal level is the unwillingness of the so-called Fatima experts to even address the points I've brought up.  When I wrote to the Remnant guys, they weren't able to address my concerns (which I wrote respectfully at first).

Very well, then, Gerard; for your sake and the sake of those like you who may have questions - I only ask that they are put forth respectfully out of honor of Our Mother; we would not want, even innocently to speak ill of Her, I hope? And deride a Great Miracle She may have worked for the Glory of God Her Son - we will have a pleasant, polite, reasonable and respectful conversation on Our Lady of Fatima. So, let me go back and look at your questins and objections.

Quote from: Gerard
But seriously...it's amazing how unlike Our Lady of Lourdes is the apparition of Fatima.

Not at all. What did Our Lady of Lourdes do? She confirmed the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Our Lady of Fatima also confirmed the same Dogma - one reason Old Catholics and Orthodox, many of whom deny that Dogma, oppose Her Apparitions - and went even a Step Further: on the First Saturdays She asked for Reparation against Blasphemies of Her Immaculate Conception. Already something the devil wouldn't do. And, thanks to Her (already recommended by earlier Popes but not practiced widely) - millions and millions of Catholics have practiced the Devotion many times, winning rich and abundant Graces for themselves and for the whole world. If we can know a Tree by its fruits, we have to judge that this is a very Wonderful Tree, that has produced such beautiful fruits. Devotion to the Immaculate Heart has spread like never before among Roman Catholics!

Quote
When the fog clears and you allow yourself to look at the facts. Fatima is all about undermining the papacy while Lourdes actually supports it by Our Lady adopting the title already given by the Pope.

Not at all. Fatima and Lourdes both confirm and support it. I love Our Lady of Lourdes and it's a Most Beautiful Apparition to St. Bernadette. But Fatima also very greatly supports the Papacy and the Catholic Episcopacy by telling us the Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart will come through the Pope and the Bishops, and through the Pope and the Bishops only. Thus, naysaying SVists and EVists do not like it.

Quote
Fatima by contrast tries to co-opt the power of the Keys

Not at all. The Power of the Papal Consecration, and the Graces consequent to it, are a Great Gift to the Papacy and even in a sense increase the Power and the Prestige of the Papacy in the eyes of the world. For e.g. when nuclear scientists gave the President of the United States, for e.g., a nuclear weapon for the first time, did they increase or decrease his power? Obviously, the former. Fatima is a nuclear weapon against Communism. The whole world saw that within hardly a few years after the 1984 Partial Consecration. Communism fell. Dec 25 1991. March 25, 1984 was the Papal and Episcopal Consecration, but with the name of Russia omitted, as Fr. Gabriel Amorth testifies below. https://sign.org/articles/%EF%BF%BCvatican-chief-exorcist-says-consecration-russia-still-not-d



“Therefore, that of 1984 was not a proper Consecration of Russia. I was there, kneeling just a couple of meters ahead of the Holy Father…”

When I became a priest, I didn’t think that my priestly life would have been so affected by Our Lady of Fatima! As a child, I was delighted to read about the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima, which occurred at the end of World War I, in 1917. She appeared to three little shepherds, but they were so young: Lucy was 10 years old, Francisco was 9 and Jacinta 7, but they received such a great message!

What an important prophecy it was, full of events that would manifest themselves only many years later! But I was immediately devoted to Our Lady of Fatima, and from Her I received the grace of being chosen to organize the Consecration of Italy to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which occurred in 1959! I was appointed by the Italian Bishops Conference to organize such a marvelous consecration, but time was so short and we didn’t know how to make it in time! Well, we were able to because for the first time we decided to bring the statue of Our Lady of Fatima to Italy!

Back then, the so-called “Peregrinatio Mariae” (that is, bringing a statue of Our Lady in pilgrimage across a nation or a diocese) was not as common as it is today! We opted to move the Statue of Our Lady by helicopter, through all the major cities in Italy. There was nothing faster than the helicopter, back then, to quickly move the statue, and we only had a few months to do it, from April 1958 until September 1959, to make sure that Our Lady could visit the whole country of Italy.

I knew Padre Pio for many years, and I was able to find a way to bring the statue of Our Lady to Padre Pio as well! So, this was my first adventure: the Consecration of Italy to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.



Then, in 1984, when John Paul II decided to consecrate the world – the most solemn ceremony, the one that occurred in Rome on March 25, 1984 – on the day of the consecration the Statue of Our Lady of Fatima (the main one, the statue that is never moved from the Fatima Sanctuary) was flown over from Portugal and was venerated in Saint Peter’s Square! I was appointed that day to organize Saint Peter’s Square, but there were so many pilgrims, so many people that day, that they entirely filled Saint Peter’s Square and the roads around it, so that most of them were not even able to see the Pope or the statue!

Then, in 1984, when John Paul II decided to consecrate the world – the most solemn ceremony, the one that occurred in Rome on March 25, 1984 – on the day of the consecration the Statue of Our Lady of Fatima (the main one, the statue that is never moved from the Fatima Sanctuary) was flown over from Portugal and was venerated in Saint Peter’s Square! I was appointed that day to organize Saint Peter’s Square, but there were so many pilgrims, so many people that day, that they entirely filled Saint Peter’s Square and the roads around it, so that most of them were not even able to see the Pope or the statue!

However, that day the Pope did something unusual while pronouncing the consecration prayer. He wanted to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. His entourage, however, was against it: “No, Holy Father, if you do this you’ll offend the Patriarch of Moscow”; or, “No, Holy Father, if you do this [you’ll go against the Soviets]”, etc.

So after several attempts to change his advisors’ minds, the Pope finally went along with them. He did not name Russia during the Consecration.

But he did do Our Lady of Fatima this service – he made it known very plainly and quite publicly that he was not performing that day the consecration requested by Our Lady of Fatima. And the Pope drew particular attention to this fact by alluding to it twice that day – first in the morning, during the prayer of consecration itself, and then again three hours later.

The text of the consecration prayer had been prepared many months before this ceremony. It was sent to all the bishops in a letter of December 8, 1983, and published in the Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, on February 17, 1984.

But on that morning of March 25, 1984, well after that part of the Act of Consecration at which the Holy Father had pronounced the consecration of the world to the Blessed Virgin – seven paragraphs later, to be precise – he unexpectedly broke away from the prepared text. After the words “Mother of the Church,” he added the following words:

“Enlighten especially the peoples of which You await our consecration and confiding.”

This was the only change that he made to the planned ceremony, and his words clearly indicate that he knows that the Consecration of Russia asked for by Our Lady of Fatima was not accomplished by that day’s consecration.

His words were a plea for a special group of people whose consecration the Blessed Virgin was still awaiting.

Our Lady of Fatima only ever specified that She wanted the Consecration of RUSSIA.

And if that was not clear enough, he repeated this same message several hours later, when he gathered with 10,000 of the faithful in St. Peter’s Basilica at 4 p.m. to say goodbye to the Pilgrim Virgin statue.

Even then, hours after the morning’s consecration ceremony, the Pope acknowledged in a public prayer to Our Lady of Fatima that the consecration which She had asked for is yet to be done. In his prayer, he drew Her attention once again to this certain group of peoples (the peoples of Russia) that has a special need of being consecrated – a group of peoples, he said: “for whom You Yourself await our act of consecration and of entrustment.”

Our Lady only asked for a Consecration of Russia, because at Fatima She never asked for a consecration of the world. The latter was asked through Blessed Alessandrina Maria da Costa and the Portuguese bishops and followed another path. Therefore, that of 1984 was not a proper Consecration of Russia. I was there, kneeling just a couple of meters ahead of the Holy Father, and mentally to myself I said the words to consecrate Russia.

If Our Lady wants, then Our Lady will go to Moscow! Our Lady is able to reach every place in the world and She will go to Russia as well, the country that spread the worst error of the last century (and of our century too): Communism! Our Lady predicted it! If Russia will not be consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart, that nation would spread its errors all over the world, and in fact atheist communism did spread all over the world, because we didn’t do what Our Lady requested!

Our Lady, however, despite what has and what has not been done, is still able to destroy all these errors and to come back through Moscow and Russia to bring back the world to the righteous path. This way, that nation which spread the most heinous errors all over the world, including Communism, will become a missionary nation instead, from which many missionaries will come, in order to bring devotion to Our Lady all over the world! Fatima – that is, Our Lady – loves us and wants to bring us to Jesus and to give peace to the world.

Having given you this message, I am happy to bless every one of you: may the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary bring upon you the blessing of the Most Holy Trinity, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost; and may the love of Mary bring us to truly love Her Divine Son Jesus, because it is through Mary that Jesus came to us, and it is through Mary that we will go to Jesus. Praised be Jesus Christ, now and forever!"

If a Partial Consecration can do that much, just imagine what the Complete Consecration will do. But God's Plan proceeds in Two Steps. I will explain more on this subsequently.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 11:07:22 AM by Xavier »
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: Release of 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline Xavier

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Our Lady has made known the way forward for Russia and the Consecration; when the Pope and the Bishop Consecrate Russia explicitly to the Immaculate Heart, many things will happen. Most important, there will be a great supernatural stirring in the hearts of the good Russian people, a divine enlightenment that will enable them to perceive more clearly than ever that Truth and Salvation lies in the Roman Catholic Church. They will understand it was a terrible, tragic mistake ever to be separated from Rome; the people themselves, after the Consecration, will cry out for Unity with and a Return to the Catholic Church. The Consecration must be explicit. So the people of Russia can know the enlightenment and the gifts they received came to them by the action of the Pope and of all the world's Bishops.

These Locutions were published in a book by Msgr. John Esseff, former spiritual director to Mother St. Theresa of Calcutta, and himself once directed by St. Padre Pio: https://www.amazon.in/Locutions-World-John-Esseff/dp/149529983X

From: https://maryrefugeofholylove.com/locutions-to-the-world/2014-messages-locutions-to-the-world/

When Russia Is Consecrated (August 14 to August 20, 2014)

...

August 17, 2014
A New Culture of Peace

Mary

After the Consecration of Russia, the beginning gift will be a conversion of hearts of those who control the nations. New ideas of peace initiatives will surface. World leaders will see that peace is in their self-interest. They should have seen this earlier but were blinded by Satan. Nations will move to true peace agreements, not the false pieces of paper they now call treaties.

The hearts of the people will move in the same directions. The hunger for war and the use of weapons to gain natural interests will be seen as outmoded ideas, the products of the past, foolish concepts that have no life in this new thinking.

The wisdom of true peace that was set aside in the selfish pursuits will regain its rightful place. Peace will be a constant, powerful light, set upon the lampstand. Even those whose hearts are not touched will be forced to walk on this new path by the power of the new culture of peace.

Comment: The world has a spirit of war and self-interest. The consecration of Russia will change individual hearts and create a new culture of peace.

August 17, 2014
The Stirring in Russian Hearts

Mary

When Russia is consecrated to my Immaculate Heart, there will be a stirring in the hearts of all, but especially in the souls of the Russian people. They will receive an inner light and will understand what forces of evil were planted in their nation by Satan’s instruments.

As their hearts are stirred, more and more light will fill them. They will reject both what has been forced upon them and what, to some degree, they themselves have chosen. All of these evils have formed their nation and their leaders into instruments of darkness, death and destruction. In this new stirring, they will fully reject what they have become and what they had been forced to accept.

This stirring will grow greater as it manifests itself in outward demonstrations of a growing desire to return to its religious roots and, especially, to return to their Devotion of My Immaculate Heart.

No one will be able to stop this movement because their nation will have been specifically consecrated by the Holy Father and by all the Catholic bishops of the world. I have put My Seal of Promise upon this Act of Consecration, and the Graces flowing from it will not be turned back. Even though the most frightful opposition will arise, the stirring in the hearts of the Russian people for this new light will not be turned back.

Comment: Our Lady begins to sketch out the new Russia, formed by the special graces still hidden and locked in her Immaculate Heart.

August 18, 2014
The Overcoming of Separation

Mary

I will place such great gifts in the hearts of the Russian people that they will not be satisfied with superficial changes. Instead, they will wipe away the divisions of the centuries.

They will realize that I have released an ocean of graces which have changed their darkness into light. They will realize that they have been freed from the past century of diabolical control. They will also know that this great gift has come through the consecration of Russia made by the Holy Father in communion with all the bishops in the world.

They will begin to question why they are separated from the Holy Father. Would all of this darkness have fallen if there had been no division? They will cry out for unity with Rome.

This ocean will be so deep and so powerful that it will sweep away all opposition. The Russian people will overturn the centuries of division that have been forced upon them.

That is why the Holy Father and all the bishops must make this Consecration in a public way and must specifically mention Russia. The Russian people must know the source of the gift.

This is also why I wait and wait, even though the Holy Father delays. I must have the Holy Father act in the name of the Catholic Church so the Russian people know that the Catholic Church has released this gift. In this way, they will desire and bring about union with the Catholic Church.

I unfold these revelations so all the world, especially the Church, can see what I intend and why I ask what I do.

Comment: For the first 1000 years, there was only one, united Catholic Church. In 1054, the Archbishop of Constantinople withdrew from this union with the pope. Thus began the division into Roman Catholic and Orthodox Catholic Churches, the great schism that lasts even today."
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: Release of 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline Gerard

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Quote from: Gerard
The real "tell" for me on a personal level is the unwillingness of the so-called Fatima experts to even address the points I've brought up.  When I wrote to the Remnant guys, they weren't able to address my concerns (which I wrote respectfully at first).

Very well, then, Gerard; for your sake and the sake of those like you who may have questions - I only ask that they are put forth respectfully out of honor of Our Mother; we would not want, even innocently to speak ill of Her, I hope? And deride a Great Miracle She may have worked for the Glory of God Her Son - we will have a pleasant, polite, reasonable and respectful conversation on Our Lady of Fatima. So, let me go back and look at your questins and objections.

I would never speak or write disrespectfully of the BVM.  What I was referring to was the obnoxious reactions to a respectfully written disagreement with Fatima.  From the so-called Fatima "experts" to any number of posters, they respond to respectful points being made with instant attacks, derisions and most cowardly of all, deletions.  That shows me that the "experts" like the people at the Remnant aren't really THAT interested in the truth if it might be too hot and effect their bread and butter.  They know that if the Remnant actually did acknowledge the problems with Fatima and no longer promoted it, that the reactionaries would cancel subscriptions on a catastrophic scale for them. 

So, I will always refer to our Lady respectfully.  Respectful replies to me will be met with respect.  Verbal punches thrown will generally be replied to with an avalanche of the same in return. 

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Quote from: Gerard
But seriously...it's amazing how unlike Our Lady of Lourdes is the apparition of Fatima.

Not at all. What did Our Lady of Lourdes do? She confirmed the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Our Lady of Fatima also confirmed the same Dogma - one reason Old Catholics and Orthodox, many of whom deny that Dogma, oppose Her Apparitions - and went even a Step Further: on the First Saturdays She asked for Reparation against Blasphemies of Her Immaculate Conception. Already something the devil wouldn't do.

I disagree on that.  The Devil is willing to do quite a lot of good in order to gain a greater prize.  He can an often does "gift" non-Catholics with peace and serenity and successes in life based on Christianity in order to keep them anti-Catholic and out of the embrace of the Catholic Church. 

How much then, would he be willing to give on the positive side, if he can break the Catholic Church by making the unique power of the papacy his puppet? 

Quote
And, thanks to Her (already recommended by earlier Popes but not practiced widely) - millions and millions of Catholics have practiced the Devotion many times, winning rich and abundant Graces for themselves and for the whole world. If we can know a Tree by its fruits, we have to judge that this is a very Wonderful Tree, that has produced such beautiful fruits. Devotion to the Immaculate Heart has spread like never before among Roman Catholics!

That's simply an apparition hopping onto a bandwagon that's already moving.  All Christian anti-Catholic (overt and covert) praise the Scriptures and commend their devotions for bringing all sorts of good fruits.   


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When the fog clears and you allow yourself to look at the facts. Fatima is all about undermining the papacy while Lourdes actually supports it by Our Lady adopting the title already given by the Pope.

Not at all. Fatima and Lourdes both confirm and support it. I love Our Lady of Lourdes and it's a Most Beautiful Apparition to St. Bernadette. But Fatima also very greatly supports the Papacy and the Catholic Episcopacy by telling us the Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart will come through the Pope and the Bishops, and through the Pope and the Bishops only. Thus, naysaying SVists and EVists do not like it.

That's putting the cart before the horse.  The BVM comes to the aid of the Pope when he requests it.  She doesn't assert her power over his and tell him what to do and promote her triumph if he does what she demands.  St. Pius V called upon her aid for the battle of Lepanto.  After she responded to his request (note the order) and the triumph was achieved.  He (the Pope) gave her the title of Our Lady of Victory and a feast day in honor of what she had done for him and us.   She didn't demand a title and a feast in exchange for a victory.  Much less did she threaten Pius V with devastation and personal suffering if he refused. 

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Fatima by contrast tries to co-opt the power of the Keys

Not at all. The Power of the Papal Consecration, and the Graces consequent to it, are a Great Gift to the Papacy and even in a sense increase the Power and the Prestige of the Papacy in the eyes of the world. For e.g. when nuclear scientists gave the President of the United States, for e.g., a nuclear weapon for the first time, did they increase or decrease his power? Obviously, the former. Fatima is a nuclear weapon against Communism. The whole world saw that within hardly a few years after the 1984 Partial Consecration. Communism fell. Dec 25 1991. March 25, 1984 was the Papal and Episcopal Consecration, but with the name of Russia omitted, as Fr. Gabriel Amorth testifies below. https://sign.org/articles/%EF%BF%BCvatican-chief-exorcist-says-consecration-russia-still-not-d

That power of papal consecration isn't a gift from our Lady.  It's a power that is inherent in the papacy from the beginning given by Christ.  The great problem with Fatima is that   the apparition of Fatima apparently wants to be in control of that power.   

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“Therefore, that of 1984 was not a proper Consecration of Russia. I was there, kneeling just a couple of meters ahead of the Holy Father…”

It's my contention that those nuances and differences that many claim are signs of the Pope being in "defiance" of the BVM are actually done by the intercession of the true "helper" of the papacy: The Paraclete (ie. the Holy Ghost) that mysteriously prevents the Church from defecting. 


Quote
"Our Lady of Fatima only ever specified that She wanted the Consecration of RUSSIA."

The key element seems to be forever going on unnoticed.  It's not a "request" for consecration of Russia by which the Pope is free to exercise his power and will according to his responsibility given him by Christ Himself.  It's an extortion attempt.  "The threat of coming calamity, the claim of being the solution and I will do all this and more if you simply use the keys to the Kingdom as I see fit and not you. And if you don't, you and your loved ones will suffer."  There is no getting around that poison pill in Fatima. 

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Our Lady only asked for a Consecration of Russia, because at Fatima She never asked for a consecration of the world.

The apparition didn't "ask."  eg. "Holy Father, would you please be willing to consecrate Russia to my Immaculate Heart?"  That is asking.  The Pope is free to do it or not do it of his own free will.  Instead Fatima attempts to coerce the Pope into only one option. 



This is an interesting caveat Fr. Amorth made:

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Our Lady, however, despite what has and what has not been done, is still able to destroy all these errors and to come back through Moscow and Russia to bring back the world to the righteous path. This way, that nation which spread the most heinous errors all over the world, including Communism, will become a missionary nation instead, from which many missionaries will come, in order to bring devotion to Our Lady all over the world! Fatima – that is, Our Lady – loves us and wants to bring us to Jesus and to give peace to the world.

Nothing is stopping the BVM from interceding and responding to the prayers of millions. Certainly not because she can't have dominion over the actions of the Pope. 

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If a Partial Consecration can do that much, just imagine what the Complete Consecration will do. But God's Plan proceeds in Two Steps. I will explain more on this subsequently.

This is the speculation of a believer.  But it's not contingent on Fatima.  A Pope could consecrate Russia to virtually any other title of Our Lady except Fatima and I can speculate that there would be a deluge of grace precisely because it's not Fatima. 
 

Offline Gerard

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lets unpack this a bit:
we have 2 systems:
1.  The Mystical Body of Christ/Kingdom of Heaven where Christ is the King and Mary is the Queen, and hold all power and authority.
2.  The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, where Christ is the High Priest, and the Master of the Church.

So if Mary got permission from the High Priest, or Master of The Church, or if she got approval from the King of the Kingdom of Heaven, that would suffice.

And to think that the High Priest doesn't have full authority and jurisdiction to administer the sacraments, and use whatever ministers he would like is somewhat laughable. 

Don't take this as an argument to believe in Fatima, I am simply pointing out that the argument is not nearly as strong as one thinks.

The difficulty with that is, God doesn't lie.  He gave the Apostles and their successors all power and authority in the Church on earth.  He did not include the BVM alongside the Paraclete as the "guide" for the Church or give her power over the Pope.  He gave that role to Himself in His Third person of the Trinity and He has restricted Himself in that role.

To claim a sudden change is to change the authority structure of the Church on earth and put it at the mercy of human error in reading apparitions and opens the door for anyone to listen to any spirit and make the Pope a puppet. 

The BVM serves the Church on earth in subjection to the papacy.  The papacy doesn't serve the BVM in the hierarchical order.  God in His infinite wisdom has given her immeasurable power to aid the Church when asked, not to dictate terms and make threats as to when she will help.  If the Pope or anyone calls and God allows it, She will intercede for him and us. But she will not force, coerce or threaten the Pope to pay homage to her in exchange for political stability and to prevent him from getting beaten up. 
 

Offline King Wenceslas

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The angel appeared to the children on three occasions, taught them prayers, and during the last appearance showed them a host and chalice that hung miraculously in the air. It then gave them Holy Communion.

As had been discussed in a previous thread, this is another little piece of evidence to support the case that Fatima is ultimately an attack on papal authority.  The story goes that Lucia received Holy Communion under the species of bread because she had already made her first Communion.  The two little ones instead were given the wine.  After which they asked Lucia if they had received communion.  It makes no sense to imply there is some kind of need to give the little ones Communion under the species of wine because they had yet to receive their first Holy Communion.  This goes against Pope St. Pius X's decree that the parents and the parish priest were to determine fitness for Holy Communion, meaning they would receive proper instruction.

Also, why an angel?  Why do angels suddenly become what would be later called "extraordinary ministers of the Holy Communion"?  Why not a saint who was an ordained priest? 
Why not St. Anthony of Padua?  He's a saint who was Portuguese and a priest.   

The real "tell" for me on a personal level is the unwillingness of the so-called Fatima experts to even address the points I've brought up.  When I wrote to the Remnant guys, they weren't able to address my concerns (which I wrote respectfully at first).  So rather than exhibit humility and actually explore the issue, they deleted the posts and banned my comments.

More super papacy propaganda. The pope is the oracle of God. Must obey unquestioningly. Forget about common sense. That is why the Church is in such a mess today.
 

Offline Gerard

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lets unpack this a bit:
we have 2 systems:
1.  The Mystical Body of Christ/Kingdom of Heaven where Christ is the King and Mary is the Queen, and hold all power and authority.
2.  The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, where Christ is the High Priest, and the Master of the Church.

So if Mary got permission from the High Priest, or Master of The Church, or if she got approval from the King of the Kingdom of Heaven, that would suffice.

And to think that the High Priest doesn't have full authority and jurisdiction to administer the sacraments, and use whatever ministers he would like is somewhat laughable. 

Don't take this as an argument to believe in Fatima, I am simply pointing out that the argument is not nearly as strong as one thinks.

The difficulty with that is, God doesn't lie.  He gave the Apostles and their successors all power and authority in the Church on earth.  He did not include the BVM alongside the Paraclete as the "guide" for the Church or give her power over the Pope.  He gave that role to Himself in His Third person of the Trinity and He has restricted Himself in that role.

To claim a sudden change is to change the authority structure of the Church on earth and put it at the mercy of human error in reading apparitions and opens the door for anyone to listen to any spirit and make the Pope a puppet. 

The BVM serves the Church on earth in subjection to the papacy.  The papacy doesn't serve the BVM in the hierarchical order.  God in His infinite wisdom has given her immeasurable power to aid the Church when asked, not to dictate terms and make threats as to when she will help.  If the Pope or anyone calls and God allows it, She will intercede for him and us. But she will not force, coerce or threaten the Pope to pay homage to her in exchange for political stability and to prevent him from getting beaten up. 
 

Offline Xavier

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The Blessed Virgin Mother of God is the Queen of Heaven and Earth. St. Peter is the Vicar or Steward, the Prime Minister. The Queen is not the Prime Minister's Slave. The Queen comes carrying the Commands of God. The Queen is perfectly United to the Divine Will in Her Immaculate Heart. The Pope is a person who can sin just like anyone else who has not yet entered the beatific vision. When the Queen of Heaven makes known the Will of God, and the Catholic Church and Her Popes themselves have confirmed this has a supernatural origin and is from God, then as the Bishop of Fatima so rightly said, "It remains for us, beloved brethren in Our Lord, to warn you that, if, for us, it is a great reason for joy and consolation, this grace that the Most Holy Virgin has granted us, greater is the obligation on us to correspond with Her goodness." We have the obligation to correspond with the Great Grace that Fatima is by holy obedience to God's Will.

Otherwise, why did the Bishop say there was an even greater obligation than the Great Grace of Fatima to correspond with Mary's goodness?

Edit: "Please see this excellent book I found on Google Books quoting Pope Pius XII and many Catholic Theologians, "Other notable Theologians echo the same theme. The Dutch Priest G. Van Noort wrote in his masterly book Dogmatic Theology (vol 3. pg 215): "Such a revelation ought to be believed by both the one who receives it and the one for whom it is destined. The rest of the faithful cannot outrightly deny it without some sort of sin"."
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 08:19:19 PM by Xavier »
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: Release of 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline Gerard

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The angel appeared to the children on three occasions, taught them prayers, and during the last appearance showed them a host and chalice that hung miraculously in the air. It then gave them Holy Communion.

As had been discussed in a previous thread, this is another little piece of evidence to support the case that Fatima is ultimately an attack on papal authority.  The story goes that Lucia received Holy Communion under the species of bread because she had already made her first Communion.  The two little ones instead were given the wine.  After which they asked Lucia if they had received communion.  It makes no sense to imply there is some kind of need to give the little ones Communion under the species of wine because they had yet to receive their first Holy Communion.  This goes against Pope St. Pius X's decree that the parents and the parish priest were to determine fitness for Holy Communion, meaning they would receive proper instruction.

Also, why an angel?  Why do angels suddenly become what would be later called "extraordinary ministers of the Holy Communion"?  Why not a saint who was an ordained priest? 
Why not St. Anthony of Padua?  He's a saint who was Portuguese and a priest.   

The real "tell" for me on a personal level is the unwillingness of the so-called Fatima experts to even address the points I've brought up.  When I wrote to the Remnant guys, they weren't able to address my concerns (which I wrote respectfully at first).  So rather than exhibit humility and actually explore the issue, they deleted the posts and banned my comments.

More super papacy propaganda. The pope is the oracle of God. Must obey unquestioningly. Forget about common sense. That is why the Church is in such a mess today.

I'm not sure why you wrote that.  Nothing I wrote is an extension of legitimate papal authority.  The Pope actually does have more than just some authority in the Church.  Had the "angel" given the children ham sandwiches on Friday in 1917, that would have been an attempt to override the binding power of the Pope, without question.  When the Pope stresses instruction and directly assigns responsibility in preparation for Holy Communion, don't you think that authority is undermined when the kids are allegedly given the Eucharist and don't even know it? And the irrational reason they were given it under the species of wine is precisely because they had not yet been given their first Holy Communion? 

Just as I am probably the biggest opponent of Neo-Ultramontanism around here, I'm also not going to adhere to a diminishment of the papacy in favor of a non-binding apparition.  I never claimed the Pope to be the oracle of God and simultaneously, I'm not going to buy into the idea that a "seer" is the oracle of God either, who tells the Pope to jump and he's supposed to jump. 

 

Offline Gerard

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The Blessed Virgin Mother of God is the Queen of Heaven and Earth. St. Peter is the Vicar or Steward, the Prime Minister. The Queen is not the Prime Minister's Slave. The Queen comes carrying the Commands of God. The Queen is perfectly United to the Divine Will in Her Immaculate Heart. The Pope is a person who can sin just like anyone else who has not yet entered the beatific vision. When the Queen of Heaven makes known the Will of God, and the Catholic Church and Her Popes themselves have confirmed this has a supernatural origin and is from God, then as the Bishop of Fatima so rightly said, "It remains for us, beloved brethren in Our Lord, to warn you that, if, for us, it is a great reason for joy and consolation, this grace that the Most Holy Virgin has granted us, greater is the obligation on us to correspond with Her goodness." We have the obligation to correspond with the Great Grace that Fatima is by holy obedience to God's Will.

Otherwise, why did the Bishop say there was an even greater obligation than the Great Grace of Fatima to correspond with Mary's goodness?

The Queen doesn't come to the Pope carrying the commands of God.  The apparition claims to be the Queen and comes to someone other than the Pope. 

There is nothing in the deposit of faith that gives the Pope an obligation to believe an apparition or to be subject to an apparition.  Especially when no Catholic is obliged to believe any apparition. 

When the Blessed Mother was on earth, after the Ascension and prior to her dormition, she was subject to St. Peter.  He "alone" was given the Keys to the Kingdom, to bind and loose.  She was not.  Just as she was not ordained a priestess or bishopess.  Think about that.  Of all creatures who else could rightly say the words of consecration, "This is my Body, This is my Blood."  But, He didn't give her that power. 

The fact that every Pope has been a sinner is a testament to the indefectibility of the papacy.  Popes of all stripes don't ascend to the chair lacking a sense of cunning and human nature and the lust for power even if for no other reason than to fight it.  (Celestine V a very naive man is probably an exception).  They, especially the more wily ones would smell the falsity of an apparition claiming to be the BVM wanting to command the exercise of papal power to the point of making threats against the Pope for resisting and holding to his own responsibility as the sole holder of the Keys. 

« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 08:31:07 PM by Gerard »
 

Offline Xavier

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Gerard, specific numbered questions to you:

1. Why are you disregarding what the Bishop of Fatima said: ""It remains for us, beloved brethren in Our Lord, to warn you that, if, for us, it is a great reason for joy and consolation, this grace that the Most Holy Virgin has granted us, greater is the obligation on us to correspond with Her goodness." We have the obligation to correspond with the Great Grace that Fatima is by holy obedience to God's Will. Do you agree with the Bishop that there is an obligation to correspond with Mary's Goodness, or do you reject that?

2. Msgr. Van Noort said: ""Such a revelation ought to be believed by both the one who receives it and the one for whom it is destined. The rest of the faithful cannot outrightly deny it without some sort of sin". Do you agree with this great Theologian that these revelations ought to be believed by both the one who received them and him for whom it was destined? That the faithful cannot deny it without some sort of sin? Or do you deny and reject all this?

3. Pope Benedict XIV: "When the Church has examined and approved these visions, no one may any longer doubt their supernatural and divine origin". Do you do as the Pope taught, or do you do the opposite, and doubt or deny the supernatural and divine origin?

Communism spread its errors throughout the world in this last century. That is simply observable fact. God gave us the means to defeat it. "There has been an influx into the Church of those who have, with or without malice, imbibed the spirit of "the Enlightenment," and there's been a full-scale, deliberate infiltration by outright malicious political enemies and religious heretics who share the goals and tactics of those who hold to "Enlightenment" ideals. Manning Johnson, a former official of the Communist Party in America, testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee in 1953:

Once the tactic of infiltration of religious organizations was set by the Kremlin... the Communists discovered that the destruction of religion could proceed much faster through the infiltration of the Church by Communists operating within the Church itself. The Communist leadership in the United States realized that the infiltration tactic in this country would have to adapt itself to American conditions and the religious makeup peculiar to this country. In the earliest stages it was determined that with only small forces available to them, it would be necessary to concentrate Communist agents in the seminaries. The practical conclusion drawn by the Red leaders was that these institutions would make it possible for a small Communist minority to influence the ideology of future clergymen in the paths conducive to Communist purposes... The policy of infiltrating seminaries was successful beyond even our communist expectations.
A Catholic monk who heard ex-Communist Bella Dodd speak at Fordham University in the 1950s had this to say:

I listened to that woman for four hours and she had my hair standing on end. Everything she said has been fulfilled to the letter. You would think she was the world's greatest prophet, but she was no prophet. She was merely exposing the step-by-step battle plan of Communist subversion of the Catholic Church. She explained that of all the world's religions, the Catholic Church was the only one feared by the Communists, for it was its only effective opponent.

The whole idea was to destroy, not the institution of the Church, but rather the Faith of the people, and even use the institution of the Church, if possible, to destroy the Faith through the promotion of a pseudo-religion: something that resembled Catholicism but was not the real thing.

Once the Faith was destroyed, she explained that there would be a guilt complex introduced into the Church…. to label the ‘Church of the past’ as being oppressive, authoritarian, full of prejudices, arrogant in claiming to be the sole possessor of truth, and responsible for the divisions of religious bodies throughout the centuries. This would be necessary in order to shame Church leaders into an ‘openness to the world,’ and to a more flexible attitude toward all religions and philosophies. The Communists would then exploit this openness in order to undermine the Church." https://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism101.html
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: Release of 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/