Author Topic: SSPX Article:Our Lady of Fatima and the Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary  (Read 3664 times)

Offline Xavier

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Rev. Fr. Michael Mueller, CSSR, citing St. Alphonsus Liguouri, Doctor of the Church, and Pope Benedict XIV.

"As Almighty God in His goodness imparts His favors to His faithful followers in divers ways-----sometimes by enlightening their minds in a supernatural manner, and even conversing with them familiarly, as it were-----and as the nature of this work is intended to be practical, not controversial, I have thought it expedient for the edification of pious souls to introduce into it, after the manner of the Holy Fathers, both some revelations made to certain Saints and several miraculous facts concerning this mystery. I know there are some persons who, boasting of being free from prejudices, take great credit to themselves for believing no miracles but those recorded in the Holy Scriptures, esteeming all others as tales and fables for foolish women. But it will be well to remember here a remark of the learned St. Alphonsus, who says, "that the bad are as ready to deride miracles as the good are to believe them; adding that as it is a weakness to give credit to all things, so on the other hand, to reject miracles which come to us attested by grave and pious men, either savors of infidelity, which supposes them impossible to God, or of presumption, which refuses belief to such a class of authors. We give credit to a Tacitus, a Suetonius, and can we deny it without presumption to Christian authors of learning and probity. There is less risk in believing and receiving what is related with some probability by honest persons and not rejected by the learned, and which serves for the edification of our neighbor, than in rejecting it with a disdainful and presumptuous spirit?" (Glories of Mary) Hence Pope Benedict XIV (De Canoni. Sanct.) says: "Though an assent of Catholic faith be not due to them, they deserve a human assent according to the rules of prudence by which they are probable and piously credible." http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/blessed-eucharist.htm

Note that AC anyway above stated that she disagreed with another statement of Pope Benedict XIV: "Pope Benedict XIV said: "“When the Church has examined and approved these visions, no one may any longer doubt their supernatural and divine origin.” Do you accept the supernatural origin of the Fatima apparitions or not? Yes or no?"

AC: "I have no doubts that the Fatima apparitions were supernatural in origin. But I don't believe they were divine in origin."

So, firstly, she disregards the Pope. Secondly, the supposed distinction is meaningless, because divine and supernatural actually mean the same thing, and are used by the Church interchangeably. But what AC means, as she has said before, is that they were diabolical.

And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort. Question 1: How do you explain that, Awkward Customer, if supposedly he did not sin? No, he sinned against Catholic Piety, and therefore He was severely punished by Almighty God; and only delivered when Thousands of Catholics said the Rosary for him.

I. God takes such things very, very seriously, when millions of souls could be saved by action, and are lost by inaction - much, much more than people today understand. So tell me, AC, Question 2: do you also think you can just reject the Rosary, the Sacred Heart etc? You don't care what the Popes say anyway, as your rejection of what Pope Benedict XIV has said shows, so it doesn't matter how many more I cite to you. But Pope Pius XII said "The time for doubting Fatima is past", and gave a marvelous prophesy in 1933, based on the words of Our Lady of Fatima, that has led to him being hailed as a Prophet himself, because so amazing are the manifestly fulfilled words of the Holy Father based on Our Lady of Fatima: "Suppose, dear friend, that Communism is the most visible among the organs of subversion against the Church and the Tradition of Divine Revelation. Thus, we will witness the invasion of everything that is spiritual: philosophy, science, law, teaching, the arts, the media, literature, theater, and religion.

I am concerned about the confidences of the Virgin to the little Lucia of Fatima. This persistence of the Good Lady in face of the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that the alteration of the Faith, in its liturgy, its theology, and its soul, would represent ...These underdeveloped peoples will save the Church, Eminence. A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted" ... Cardinal Pacelli’s remarks are stunning prophesies of the current state of affairs in the Church, 84 years later." https://onepeterfive.com/pius-xiis-prophetic-warnings-fatima-suicide-altering-faith-liturgy/

II. Enemies and Haters of the Roman Catholic Church deny all this, just as they deny that the Roman Catholic Church defeated Communism. The full and complete extirpation and uprooting of the Communist terrorist heresy will come when the Complete Consecration is done, including the uprooting of abortionism, evolutionism, secularism and other errors promoted by the Communists.

Also, Awkward Customer, just think carefully why you are on the same side with self-professed deniers of the Immaculate Conception. That should wake you up if you still want to be woken up. You are not fighting man but you are fighting God, as the Pharisees did when they attributed clearly divine and supernatural works to diabolical and evil spirits, which Our Lord said was blasphemy of His Holy Spirit.

Study the history of the Immaculate Conception Dogma and its tragic denial in Russia, and you'll see Our Lady of Fatima is a Heavenly Intervention in favor of the Catholic Church designed by God for the purpose of bringing Russia back to belief in the Immaculate Conception, devotion to the Immaculate and Sorrowful Heart of our Mother Mary, and thereby back to the Roman Catholic Church.

III. Saintly Sr. Lucy obeyed when finally asked to write down the Secret, made it known to the Bishop in 1944, and it was sent to Rome by 1957.

St. John is speaking about desiring visions for yourself in prayer, instead of relying on the purest light of faith, not about refusing to hear Saint and Mystics raised up by God and Our Lady by public Miracles, approved by the Church, and due for canonization.

The Third Secret was published with Vatican Approval in 2000 A.D. The Catholic Church is not Sedevacantist. She is most certainly not Ecclesia-Vacantist either. Although I'm with Antonio Socci that there's an unpublished part, the published part is more than enough to know that an invasion of Rome is coming, and that some of them in Rome are going to remain blind to it until it will be too late, just like the Kings of France who later wept and bitterly lamented about not performing the Consecration to the Sacred Heart Commanded by the Divine King of kings to His ministers: "‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God." http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

As a Knight of the Immaculata consecrated to Her in the Missio Immaculata, along with millions of others, I for one will not stand idly by  nor treat with frigid indifference when heretics pierce Her Immaculate Heart by sinning mortally and denying Her Immaculate Conception, or when bad Catholics, disregarding what the Popes, Saints and Doctors have taught, do not give the human assent of pious faith spoken by St. Alphonsus and St. Montfort, but instead with rash temerity and self-willed idiocy dare to call the Heavenly Manifestations of the Immaculate Virgin diabolical - which is what Anti-Catholics and Protestants etc also do to both the Holy Rosary and the Immaculate Heart. Yes, if you call the Rosary or Devotion to the Immaculate Heart, or the fully approved Supernatural Signs associated with them to be "diabolical", then yes you are a bad Catholic, and are publicly sinning against Catholic Piety. If you deny the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, you are a faithless heretic publicly sinning against Catholic Faith.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 03:18:15 PM by Xavier »
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: Release of 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline Gerard

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All the people who are bashing the Anti-Fatimists had better knock it off.  You should be praising us to high Heaven.  If we get the proper praise due to us for our bravery in search of truth, everything will work out just fine.  The Church will recover, there will be a chicken in every pot and a cool car in every garage, and the diabolical disorientation that has a grip on Fatima adherents will be released.   If not, then the whole shebang is going to get a lot worse and the Fatima adherents are going to suffer badly.  And I mean badly on a personal, physical level and the suffering of your pets and loved ones will be on you. 

So, get with the accolades for us Anti-Fatimists.   

Or if you refuse, suffer the unbearable consequences. 

ps. that's not a threat.  It's a "loving" warning.   ;)

But seriously...it's amazing how unlike Our Lady of Lourdes is the apparition of Fatima. When the fog clears and you allow yourself to look at the facts. Fatima is all about undermining the papacy while Lourdes actually supports it by Our Lady adopting the title already given by the Pope.  Fatima by contrast tries to co-opt the power of the Keys given by Christ Himself to the Papacy, demands and exercise of papal power as if the Pope is a puppet and threatens him with personal suffering if he doesn't cave into the extortion threats. Fatima also makes political promises and political threats.  There's a whole song and dance about sin and Hell and everything else the Devil is an authority on, but the focus is all about politics which is always a big temptation for Popes to become involved in.   

St. Alphonsus Ligouri wrote that piece quoted long before Fatima, long before Vatican II.  I bet he would have second thoughts about what he wrote had he known what was coming down the pike.  Just as had he known about the disturbed psychological state of one of the members of his order, he wouldn't have placed him in a position of authority in which he persecuted and tortured St. Gerard Majella. 

So the argument that someone denying Fatima is an insult to the BVM isn't true in the slightest. The argument against Fatima is based on facts that are irreconcilable concerning the ecclesiology of the Church. 

One can love the BVM as much as St. Louis De Montfort, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, St. Bernadette and even St. Joseph himself as well as St. Luke and St. John the Apostle and still not buy into Fatima. None of them knew anything of Fatima and they did just fine.  One can even love the BVM MORE than the most ardent Fatimist if the Fatimist doesn't have their head screwed on right concerning the theological weight of an apparition compared to the actual doctrine of the Church. 

Any Catholic who is scandalized (scandal meaning something that causes you to risk losing your faith )  at the idea of any apparition turning out to be false has an imbalance in their faith, that they should seek guidance about. 

 
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 11:35:03 PM by Gerard »
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Rev. Fr. Michael Mueller, CSSR, citing St. Alphonsus Liguouri, Doctor of the Church, and Pope Benedict XIV.

"As Almighty God in His goodness imparts His favors to His faithful followers in divers ways-----sometimes by enlightening their minds in a supernatural manner, and even conversing with them familiarly, as it were-----and as the nature of this work is intended to be practical, not controversial, I have thought it expedient for the edification of pious souls to introduce into it, after the manner of the Holy Fathers, both some revelations made to certain Saints and several miraculous facts concerning this mystery. I know there are some persons who, boasting of being free from prejudices, take great credit to themselves for believing no miracles but those recorded in the Holy Scriptures, esteeming all others as tales and fables for foolish women. But it will be well to remember here a remark of the learned St. Alphonsus, who says, "that the bad are as ready to deride miracles as the good are to believe them; adding that as it is a weakness to give credit to all things, so on the other hand, to reject miracles which come to us attested by grave and pious men, either savors of infidelity, which supposes them impossible to God, or of presumption, which refuses belief to such a class of authors. We give credit to a Tacitus, a Suetonius, and can we deny it without presumption to Christian authors of learning and probity. There is less risk in believing and receiving what is related with some probability by honest persons and not rejected by the learned, and which serves for the edification of our neighbor, than in rejecting it with a disdainful and presumptuous spirit?" (Glories of Mary) Hence Pope Benedict XIV (De Canoni. Sanct.) says: "Though an assent of Catholic faith be not due to them, they deserve a human assent according to the rules of prudence by which they are probable and piously credible." http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/blessed-eucharist.htm

Note that AC anyway above stated that she disagreed with another statement of Pope Benedict XIV: "Pope Benedict XIV said: "“When the Church has examined and approved these visions, no one may any longer doubt their supernatural and divine origin.” Do you accept the supernatural origin of the Fatima apparitions or not? Yes or no?"

AC: "I have no doubts that the Fatima apparitions were supernatural in origin. But I don't believe they were divine in origin."

So, firstly, she disregards the Pope. Secondly, the supposed distinction is meaningless, because divine and supernatural actually mean the same thing, and are used by the Church interchangeably. But what AC means, as she has said before, is that they were diabolical.

And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort. Question 1: How do you explain that, Awkward Customer, if supposedly he did not sin? No, he sinned against Catholic Piety, and therefore He was severely punished by Almighty God; and only delivered when Thousands of Catholics said the Rosary for him.

I. God takes such things very, very seriously, when millions of souls could be saved by action, and are lost by inaction - much, much more than people today understand. So tell me, AC, Question 2: do you also think you can just reject the Rosary, the Sacred Heart etc? You don't care what the Popes say anyway, as your rejection of what Pope Benedict XIV has said shows, so it doesn't matter how many more I cite to you. But Pope Pius XII said "The time for doubting Fatima is past", and gave a marvelous prophesy in 1933, based on the words of Our Lady of Fatima, that has led to him being hailed as a Prophet himself, because so amazing are the manifestly fulfilled words of the Holy Father based on Our Lady of Fatima: "Suppose, dear friend, that Communism is the most visible among the organs of subversion against the Church and the Tradition of Divine Revelation. Thus, we will witness the invasion of everything that is spiritual: philosophy, science, law, teaching, the arts, the media, literature, theater, and religion.

I am concerned about the confidences of the Virgin to the little Lucia of Fatima. This persistence of the Good Lady in face of the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that the alteration of the Faith, in its liturgy, its theology, and its soul, would represent ...These underdeveloped peoples will save the Church, Eminence. A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted" ... Cardinal Pacelli’s remarks are stunning prophesies of the current state of affairs in the Church, 84 years later." https://onepeterfive.com/pius-xiis-prophetic-warnings-fatima-suicide-altering-faith-liturgy/

II. Enemies and Haters of the Roman Catholic Church deny all this, just as they deny that the Roman Catholic Church defeated Communism. The full and complete extirpation and uprooting of the Communist terrorist heresy will come when the Complete Consecration is done, including the uprooting of abortionism, evolutionism, secularism and other errors promoted by the Communists.

Also, Awkward Customer, just think carefully why you are on the same side with self-professed deniers of the Immaculate Conception. That should wake you up if you still want to be woken up. You are not fighting man but you are fighting God, as the Pharisees did when they attributed clearly divine and supernatural works to diabolical and evil spirits, which Our Lord said was blasphemy of His Holy Spirit.

Study the history of the Immaculate Conception Dogma and its tragic denial in Russia, and you'll see Our Lady of Fatima is a Heavenly Intervention in favor of the Catholic Church designed by God for the purpose of bringing Russia back to belief in the Immaculate Conception, devotion to the Immaculate and Sorrowful Heart of our Mother Mary, and thereby back to the Roman Catholic Church.

III. Saintly Sr. Lucy obeyed when finally asked to write down the Secret, made it known to the Bishop in 1944, and it was sent to Rome by 1957.

St. John is speaking about desiring visions for yourself in prayer, instead of relying on the purest light of faith, not about refusing to hear Saint and Mystics raised up by God and Our Lady by public Miracles, approved by the Church, and due for canonization.

The Third Secret was published with Vatican Approval in 2000 A.D. The Catholic Church is not Sedevacantist. She is most certainly not Ecclesia-Vacantist either. Although I'm with Antonio Socci that there's an unpublished part, the published part is more than enough to know that an invasion of Rome is coming, and that some of them in Rome are going to remain blind to it until it will be too late, just like the Kings of France who later wept and bitterly lamented about not performing the Consecration to the Sacred Heart Commanded by the Divine King of kings to His ministers: "‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God." http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

As a Knight of the Immaculata consecrated to Her in the Missio Immaculata, along with millions of others, I for one will not stand idly by  nor treat with frigid indifference when heretics pierce Her Immaculate Heart by sinning mortally and denying Her Immaculate Conception, or when bad Catholics, disregarding what the Popes, Saints and Doctors have taught, do not give the human assent of pious faith spoken by St. Alphonsus and St. Montfort, but instead with rash temerity and self-willed idiocy dare to call the Heavenly Manifestations of the Immaculate Virgin diabolical - which is what Anti-Catholics and Protestants etc also do to both the Holy Rosary and the Immaculate Heart. Yes, if you call the Rosary or Devotion to the Immaculate Heart, or the fully approved Supernatural Signs associated with them to be "diabolical", then yes you are a bad Catholic, and are publicly sinning against Catholic Piety. If you deny the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, you are a faithless heretic publicly sinning against Catholic Faith.

Poor Xavier. 

He's in a worse state than I thought.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 01:35:32 AM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Quote
And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort.

Your view of "God" is disgusting.
 
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Offline dellery

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Rev. Fr. Michael Mueller, CSSR, citing St. Alphonsus Liguouri, Doctor of the Church, and Pope Benedict XIV.

"As Almighty God in His goodness imparts His favors to His faithful followers in divers ways-----sometimes by enlightening their minds in a supernatural manner, and even conversing with them familiarly, as it were-----and as the nature of this work is intended to be practical, not controversial, I have thought it expedient for the edification of pious souls to introduce into it, after the manner of the Holy Fathers, both some revelations made to certain Saints and several miraculous facts concerning this mystery. I know there are some persons who, boasting of being free from prejudices, take great credit to themselves for believing no miracles but those recorded in the Holy Scriptures, esteeming all others as tales and fables for foolish women. But it will be well to remember here a remark of the learned St. Alphonsus, who says, "that the bad are as ready to deride miracles as the good are to believe them; adding that as it is a weakness to give credit to all things, so on the other hand, to reject miracles which come to us attested by grave and pious men, either savors of infidelity, which supposes them impossible to God, or of presumption, which refuses belief to such a class of authors. We give credit to a Tacitus, a Suetonius, and can we deny it without presumption to Christian authors of learning and probity. There is less risk in believing and receiving what is related with some probability by honest persons and not rejected by the learned, and which serves for the edification of our neighbor, than in rejecting it with a disdainful and presumptuous spirit?" (Glories of Mary) Hence Pope Benedict XIV (De Canoni. Sanct.) says: "Though an assent of Catholic faith be not due to them, they deserve a human assent according to the rules of prudence by which they are probable and piously credible." http://www.catholictradition.org/Eucharist/blessed-eucharist.htm

Note that AC anyway above stated that she disagreed with another statement of Pope Benedict XIV: "Pope Benedict XIV said: "“When the Church has examined and approved these visions, no one may any longer doubt their supernatural and divine origin.” Do you accept the supernatural origin of the Fatima apparitions or not? Yes or no?"

AC: "I have no doubts that the Fatima apparitions were supernatural in origin. But I don't believe they were divine in origin."

So, firstly, she disregards the Pope. Secondly, the supposed distinction is meaningless, because divine and supernatural actually mean the same thing, and are used by the Church interchangeably. But what AC means, as she has said before, is that they were diabolical.

And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort. Question 1: How do you explain that, Awkward Customer, if supposedly he did not sin? No, he sinned against Catholic Piety, and therefore He was severely punished by Almighty God; and only delivered when Thousands of Catholics said the Rosary for him.

I. God takes such things very, very seriously, when millions of souls could be saved by action, and are lost by inaction - much, much more than people today understand. So tell me, AC, Question 2: do you also think you can just reject the Rosary, the Sacred Heart etc? You don't care what the Popes say anyway, as your rejection of what Pope Benedict XIV has said shows, so it doesn't matter how many more I cite to you. But Pope Pius XII said "The time for doubting Fatima is past", and gave a marvelous prophesy in 1933, based on the words of Our Lady of Fatima, that has led to him being hailed as a Prophet himself, because so amazing are the manifestly fulfilled words of the Holy Father based on Our Lady of Fatima: "Suppose, dear friend, that Communism is the most visible among the organs of subversion against the Church and the Tradition of Divine Revelation. Thus, we will witness the invasion of everything that is spiritual: philosophy, science, law, teaching, the arts, the media, literature, theater, and religion.

I am concerned about the confidences of the Virgin to the little Lucia of Fatima. This persistence of the Good Lady in face of the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that the alteration of the Faith, in its liturgy, its theology, and its soul, would represent ...These underdeveloped peoples will save the Church, Eminence. A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted" ... Cardinal Pacelli’s remarks are stunning prophesies of the current state of affairs in the Church, 84 years later." https://onepeterfive.com/pius-xiis-prophetic-warnings-fatima-suicide-altering-faith-liturgy/

II. Enemies and Haters of the Roman Catholic Church deny all this, just as they deny that the Roman Catholic Church defeated Communism. The full and complete extirpation and uprooting of the Communist terrorist heresy will come when the Complete Consecration is done, including the uprooting of abortionism, evolutionism, secularism and other errors promoted by the Communists.

Also, Awkward Customer, just think carefully why you are on the same side with self-professed deniers of the Immaculate Conception. That should wake you up if you still want to be woken up. You are not fighting man but you are fighting God, as the Pharisees did when they attributed clearly divine and supernatural works to diabolical and evil spirits, which Our Lord said was blasphemy of His Holy Spirit.

Study the history of the Immaculate Conception Dogma and its tragic denial in Russia, and you'll see Our Lady of Fatima is a Heavenly Intervention in favor of the Catholic Church designed by God for the purpose of bringing Russia back to belief in the Immaculate Conception, devotion to the Immaculate and Sorrowful Heart of our Mother Mary, and thereby back to the Roman Catholic Church.

III. Saintly Sr. Lucy obeyed when finally asked to write down the Secret, made it known to the Bishop in 1944, and it was sent to Rome by 1957.

St. John is speaking about desiring visions for yourself in prayer, instead of relying on the purest light of faith, not about refusing to hear Saint and Mystics raised up by God and Our Lady by public Miracles, approved by the Church, and due for canonization.

The Third Secret was published with Vatican Approval in 2000 A.D. The Catholic Church is not Sedevacantist. She is most certainly not Ecclesia-Vacantist either. Although I'm with Antonio Socci that there's an unpublished part, the published part is more than enough to know that an invasion of Rome is coming, and that some of them in Rome are going to remain blind to it until it will be too late, just like the Kings of France who later wept and bitterly lamented about not performing the Consecration to the Sacred Heart Commanded by the Divine King of kings to His ministers: "‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God." http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

As a Knight of the Immaculata consecrated to Her in the Missio Immaculata, along with millions of others, I for one will not stand idly by  nor treat with frigid indifference when heretics pierce Her Immaculate Heart by sinning mortally and denying Her Immaculate Conception, or when bad Catholics, disregarding what the Popes, Saints and Doctors have taught, do not give the human assent of pious faith spoken by St. Alphonsus and St. Montfort, but instead with rash temerity and self-willed idiocy dare to call the Heavenly Manifestations of the Immaculate Virgin diabolical - which is what Anti-Catholics and Protestants etc also do to both the Holy Rosary and the Immaculate Heart. Yes, if you call the Rosary or Devotion to the Immaculate Heart, or the fully approved Supernatural Signs associated with them to be "diabolical", then yes you are a bad Catholic, and are publicly sinning against Catholic Piety. If you deny the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, you are a faithless heretic publicly sinning against Catholic Faith.

Poor Xavier. 

He's in a worse state than I thought.

Well done. All the harassment and ridicule directed toward Xavier must be paying off.

Hopefully, he'll just learn to ignore you all and allow you all to put your rottenness on display.

If you all don't mind airing your misery out on the forum like dirty laundry he shouldn't mind either.


Xavier! Stop defending yourself from these people and just allow them to come on here and show everybody how pathetic they are!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:34:55 AM by dellery »
The Fisherman's worm.
 
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Offline dellery

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And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort.

Your view of "God" is disgusting.

You can not hide your inward decay, Kreuzritter.

Time and time again you see fit to come on here and show everybody how much of an angry, condescending, jerk you can be.
Not content to wallow in your own sufferings or humble enough to correct them, you try to spread them to others. In almost every single post you make.
The Fisherman's worm.
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Well done. All the harassment and ridicule directed toward Xavier must be paying off.

Hopefully, he'll just learn to ignore you all and allow you all to put your rottenness on display.

If you all don't mind airing your misery out on the forum like dirty laundry he shouldn't mind either.


Xavier! Stop defending yourself from these people and just allow them to come on here and show everybody how pathetic they are!

If you really cared about Xavier, you would point out that he contradicts Church teaching when insists that certain private revelations and visions must be accepted.  And that the accusations he throws at those who don't accept them suggest that, i) he puts himself above Church teaching, and ii) that he is wedded to a viewpoint that inspires him to throw insults at those who don't agree with him.

Instead you urge people to "put their rottenness on display", which is what you are doing.

Sorry, but yours is an example I have no wish to follow.

Is your nastiness yet another 'fruit of Fatima'?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:05:33 AM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline abc123

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Well done. All the harassment and ridicule directed toward Xavier must be paying off.

Hopefully, he'll just learn to ignore you all and allow you all to put your rottenness on display.

If you all don't mind airing your misery out on the forum like dirty laundry he shouldn't mind either.


Xavier! Stop defending yourself from these people and just allow them to come on here and show everybody how pathetic they are!

If you really cared about Xavier, you would point out that he contradicts Church teaching when insists that certain private revelations and visions must be accepted.  And that the accusations he throws at those who don't accept them suggest that, i) he puts himself above Church teaching, and ii) that he is wedded to a viewpoint that inspires him to throw insults at those who don't agree with him.

Instead you urge people to "put their rottenness on display", which is what you are doing.

Sorry, but yours is an example I have no wish to follow.

Is your nastiness yet another 'fruit of Fatima'?

Pretty sure dellery is a troll. Not a very clever one either.
 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Quote
And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort.

Your view of "God" is disgusting.

You can not hide your inward decay, Kreuzritter.

Time and time again you see fit to come on here and show everybody how much of an angry, condescending, jerk you can be.

A God who sends 15,000 devils to possess a man as punishment for blaspheming Mary and the Rosary is the definition of an "angry, condescending, jerk". This "God" is as volatile and spiteful as the worst demon.

Quote
Not content to wallow in your own sufferings or humble enough to correct them, you try to spread them to others. In almost every single post you make.

Turn out Roman Catholics are often no different to those of other ideologies: when someone dares "apostatise" from dogma, it's always that something must be wrong with him, always ad hominem.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:56:36 AM by Kreuzritter »
 

Offline awkwardcustomer

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Pretty sure dellery is a troll. Not a very clever one either.

Really?

I can't tell.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Well done. All the harassment and ridicule directed toward Xavier must be paying off.

Hopefully, he'll just learn to ignore you all and allow you all to put your rottenness on display.

If you all don't mind airing your misery out on the forum like dirty laundry he shouldn't mind either.


Xavier! Stop defending yourself from these people and just allow them to come on here and show everybody how pathetic they are!

Xavier is an obstinate heretic who on another thread said that the authority of apparitions supersede that of the Catholic Church - which is literally heresy, and is expressly condemned by the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations"."

Emphasis on the underlined portion. Sects which exist based on revelations which claim to correct or surpass the deposit of Faith.



Moreover, Xavier's ethos of unquestioning gullibility towards anything that appears supernatural in origin is not only at odds with the New Testament, which is stated in Galatians 1:8



But is fundamentally at odds with how the Church always approached these things.

One simply has to look to the story of Our Lady Guadalupe, Our Lady of Lourdes, and Saint Peter of Verona.

In Guadalupe, the Bishop commanded proof of the supernatural character of Guadalupe before approving of her commands; to which Our Lady herself complied. Our Lady didn't rebuke the Bishop for his faithlessness or his stiff-heart, she simply obeyed his commands.

In Lourdes, Saint Bernadette tested the apparition with Holy Water before listening to her.

In St. Peter of Veronica's case, an apparition of the Virgin Mary with the Child was telling people about the truth of Catharism; to which Saint Peter brought the Eucharist and commanded the apparition to "Adore Thy Son," to which the apparition vanished in a puff of black smoke.

Finally, one has to read Saint John of the Cross's work which commands his disciples to test every apparition, and essentially says to err of the side of caution rather than err of the side of carelessness.



We have every right to rebuke promoters of heresy.

"A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:
Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment."
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 12:15:39 AM by TheReturnofLive »
 
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Offline dellery

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And that claim is itself diabolical. Almighty God punished severely by sending 15,000 devils into a poor, blaspheming heretic, who blasphemed Our Lady and the Miraculous Manifestation of Her Rosary, as we read of in the life of St. Dominic, also repeated by St. Montfort.

Your view of "God" is disgusting.

You can not hide your inward decay, Kreuzritter.

Time and time again you see fit to come on here and show everybody how much of an angry, condescending, jerk you can be.

A God who sends 15,000 devils to possess a man as punishment for blaspheming Mary and the Rosary is the definition of an "angry, condescending, jerk". This "God" is as volatile and spiteful as the worst demon.

Quote
Not content to wallow in your own sufferings or humble enough to correct them, you try to spread them to others. In almost every single post you make.

Turn out Roman Catholics are often no different to those of other ideologies: when someone dares "apostatise" from dogma, it's always that something must be wrong with him, always ad hominem.

Cry me a river.

Several years ago I was probably even more pissed off and miserable than you appear to be. Instead of struggling against my demons I yielded to them. I was rude to a lot of people, not just in my online interactions but in person as well.
Anybody whose familiar with my posting history certainly knows this.
Thankfully people cared enough about me to call me out for being a son of a bitch.
Even on this forum the poster Nmoerbeek did me a great service with his solid rebukes.

People allow demons to live inside of them because they think that the demons are concealed from everybody else. They are not.
Bringing the demons out in the open and into the light forces you to confront and kill them.
The Fisherman's worm.
 
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Offline dellery

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Xavier is an obstinate heretic who on another thread said that the authority of apparitions supersede that of the Catholic Church - which is literally heresy, and is expressly condemned by the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations"."

Emphasis on the underlined portion. Sects which exist based on revelations which claim to correct or surpass the deposit of Faith.



Moreover, Xavier's ethos of unquestioning gullibility towards anything that appears supernatural in origin is not only at odds with the New Testament, which is stated in Galatians 1:8



But is fundamentally at odds with how the Church always approached these things.

One simply has to look to the story of Our Lady Guadalupe, Our Lady of Lourdes, and Saint Peter of Verona.

In Guadalupe, the Bishop commanded proof of the supernatural character of Guadalupe before approving of her commands; to which Our Lady herself complied. Our Lady didn't rebuke the Bishop for his faithlessness or his stiff-heart, she simply obeyed her commands.

In Lourdes, Saint Bernadette tested the apparition with Holy Water before listening to her.

In St. Peter of Veronica's case, an apparition of the Virgin Mary with the Child was telling people about the truth of Catharism; to which Saint Peter brought the Eucharist and commanded the apparition to "Adore Thy Son," to which the apparition vanished in a puff of black smoke.

Finally, one has to read Saint John of the Cross's work which commands his disciples to test every apparition, and essentially says to err of the side of caution rather than err of the side of carelessness.



We have every right to rebuke promoters of heresy.

"A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:
Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment."

You have no power to judge somebody to be an obstinate heretic.
Such an idea is an outcrop of Protestantism and maybe even Americanism to a degree.

Since you think a lay-man has the authority to judge somebody as being a heretic, I could attack you for being a "heretic" and compel you to defend yourself thus entrenching you in your "heresy". Then after you've dug in and defended your position I could accuse you of being an obstinate heretic.
This is actually what I was planning to do to prove my point--the same thing you and others are doing to Xavier.

So let's be honest, nobody, that I've seen has issued Xavier any kind of charitable correction. It's mainly been attacks and insults, sloppily covered by a transparent mask of false-piety.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:43:18 PM by dellery »
The Fisherman's worm.
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Xavier is an obstinate heretic who on another thread said that the authority of apparitions supersede that of the Catholic Church - which is literally heresy, and is expressly condemned by the Catechism of the Catholic Church.


TheReturnofLive, I don't agree with Xavier's judgement on various apparitions but I think you exaggerate his viewpoint. ASK HIM,  POINT BLANK, do they supercede the authority of the Church? I personally would be a liar if I said he thinks they supercede the Church. I would need to see him make this explicit.

I also think he would agree with the CCC quote you made here:

"Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church. Christian faith cannot accept "revelations" that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such "revelations"

I would like to hear from him whether he agrees with this. Maybe his "sensus fidelium" is a little lacking and he is INSUFFICIENTLY guided by the Magisterium,  but I don't see him entirely over- throwing the Magisterium in favor of apparitions. What do you say Xavier?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 09:41:12 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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So let's be honest, nobody, that I've seen has issued Xavier any kind of charitable correction. It's mainly been attacks and insults, sloppily covered by a transparent mask of false-piety.

Plenty of charitable correction has been issued to Xavier, which he just ignores.  Counter arguments have been put to him, which he also ignores.  Not only that, he doubles down on his insistence that his view of visions and apparitions and their role in saving the Church and the world is the absolute correct one.

Have you read what he accused me of in the post above - that one of my views is "diabolical"; that I might be ready to deny the Sacred Heart devotion and the Rosary; that I am on the side of those who deny the Immaculate Conception.

I take it these accusations are fine by you.  And it's not as if this was the first time.  Xavier has made similar accusations elsewhere.

I've lost count of the number of times I have been accused of being a heretic on this forum.  Mikemac did this several times, also for speaking out against Fatima.

Those who elevate visions and apparitions to the level of dogma often accuse those who reject those visions and apparitions of being uncatholic to the point of heresy.  This is contrary to the teaching of the Church, and this has been pointed out to Xavier, charitably, many times.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 10:00:21 PM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.