Author Topic: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.  (Read 242 times)

Offline gsas

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Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« on: January 08, 2020, 05:30:06 AM »
This evangelical, Jimmy Swaggart has made an observation, that thousands of children can confirm.  He said, that the Holy Spirit will do very little, not much at all for you, until you are baptized.  So, this evangelical babtist, who signs up to the century old restriction, to never baptize children, has himself stated the dangers of it.

So, what can a child do, who is not allowed babtism, but needs it?  Are there temporary alternatives for babtism, that a person can carry like a provisional driver permit, to have at least some level of Christy protection in your life, temporarily?
 

Offline St.Justin

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2020, 01:59:08 PM »
Its called Baptizm of desire.
 
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Offline gsas

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2020, 03:55:15 PM »
Its called Baptizm of desire.

This is very interesting!  Is there a material that I could read which explains the baptism by desire in more detail?
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2020, 06:09:24 PM »
Re. "Baptism of Desire"; here is some quotes from the CMRI site: http://www.cmri.org/02-baptism_blood-desire_quotes.shtml
Quote
13. FR. A. TANQUERY, Dogmatic Brevior; ART. IV, Section I, II - 1945 (1024-1)

The Baptism of Desire. Contrition, or perfect charity, with at least an implicit desire for Baptism, supplies in adults the place of the baptism of water as respects the forgiveness of sins.

This is certain.

Explanation: a) An implicit desire for Baptism, that is, one that is included in a general purpose of keeping all the commandments of God is, as all agree, sufficient in one who is invincibly ignorant of the law of Baptism; likewise, according to the more common opinion, in one who knows the necessity of Baptism.

b) Perfect charity, with a desire for Baptism, forgives original sin and actual sins, and therefore infuses sanctifying grace; but it does not imprint the Baptismal character and does not of itself remit the whole temporal punishment due for sin; whence, when the Unity offers, the obligation remains on
one who was sanctified in this manner of receiving the Baptism of water.

14. FR. DOMINIC PRUMMER, O.P., Moral Theology, 1949:

    “Baptism of Desire which is a perfect act of charity that includes at least implicitly the desire for Baptism by water”;
    “Baptism of Blood which signifies martyrdom endured for Christ prior to the reception of Baptism by Water”;
    “Regarding the effects of Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire... both cause sanctifying grace. ...Baptism of Blood usually remits all venial sin and temporal punishment...”


15. FR. FRANCIS O’CONNELL, Outlines of Moral Theology, 1953:

    “Baptism of Desire... is an act of divine charity or perfect contrition...”
    “These means (i.e. Baptism of Blood and Desire) presuppose in the recipient at least the implicit will to receive the sacrament.”
    “...Even if an infant can gain the benefit of the Baptism of Blood if he is put to death by a person actuated by hatred for the Christian faith....”


16. MGR. J. H. HERVE, Manuale Theologiae Dogmaticae (Vol. III: chap. IV), 1931

II. On those for whom Baptism of water can be supplied:

The various baptisms: from the Tridentinum itself and from the things stated, it stands firm that Baptism is necessary, yet in fact or in desire; therefore in an extraordinary case it can be supplied. Further, according to the Catholic doctrine, there are two things by which the sacrament of Baptism can be supplied: namely, an act of perfect charity with the desire of Baptism, and the death as martyr. Since these two are a compensation for Baptism of water, they themselves are called Baptism, too, in order that they may be comprehended with it under one, as it were, generic name, so the act of love with desire for Baptism is called Baptismus flaminis (Baptism of the Spirit) and the martyrium (Baptism of Blood).

18. FR. ARTHUR VERMEERSCH, S.J., Theologiae Moralis (Vol. III), Tractatus II, 1948:

The Baptism of spirit (flaminis) is an act of perfect charity or contrition, in so far as it contains at least a tacit desire of the Sacrament. Therefore it can be had only in adults. It does not imprint a character; ...but it takes away all mortal sin together with the sentence of eternal penalty, according to: “He who loves me, is loved by my Father” (John 14:21).

19. FR. LUDOVICO BILLOT, S.J., De Ecclesiae Sacmmentis (Vol. I); Quaestio LXVI; Thesis XXIV - 1931:

Baptism of spirit (flaminis), which is also called of repentance or of desire, is nothing else than an act of charity or perfect contrition including a desire of the Sacrament, according to what has been said above, namely that the heart of everyone is moved by the Holy Ghost to believe, and to love God, and to be sorry for his sins.
There is also the article on "Baptism" in the Catholic Encyclopedia, here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#iv
And St. Thomas in the Summa III Q. 66. a.11 (http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4066.htm).
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2020, 06:52:11 PM »
Baptism of Desire (the spelling I see most everywhere is with an "s" not a "z") is for adults who have reason and are capable of desiring God and the actual cleansing of their sins.  It is not for babies.  Babies must have water baptism in order to reach heaven.  It is my understanding that without water baptism a baby is not damned to eternal flames (because God is not cruel or unjust) but it will reach perfect natural happiness not supernatural happiness.

Some Catholics, I think even some Saints in the past, but more and more people in modern times, do think that unbaptized babies may be saved because of the desire of other people, e.g. their parents (e.g. in the case of a miscarriage). I think maybe we can be hopeful, but we can't be presumptuous. God does not owe anyone SUPERnatural happiness. It's not just a matter of being innocent, it's a matter of being WORTHY of God. God gave us the Sacrament of Baptism as a means to Sanctifying Grace, which makes us worthy of God.

Once a child is old enough to reason and love God he can have baptism of desire if he is so unfortunate as to be a protestant who is being turned away from the sacrament of baptism.  With baptism of desire GOD HIMSELF can choose to give Sanctifying Grace directly when the Sacrament is unavailable (e.g. because of the stupidity of protestants).  There is a lot of controversy on this forum about baptism of desire, but here is a good site that discusses many of the issues: http://baptismofdesire.com/
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 08:15:57 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 06:18:10 AM »
In the age before Christ's Advent, righteous parents among the faithful people of Israel would offer their children to God, and beg or pray for them that they may be justified, sanctified, washed and cleaned from sin. Original sin, as regards its personal defect, was remitted in circumcision, which prefigured Baptism. The natural defect, common to all human nature, was healed by Christ. So did all those boys go to heaven while all girls who died in infancy, for want of it, then remain in limbo forever? And all Gentile children of parents who were just, are they also eternally deprived of the beatific vision, for never having heard of circumcision nor its necessity in those times? No, not necessarily; that is man's understanding. But God's ways are beyond ours. Christ came to save all, and He died for all, and shed His blood for all; therefore, His blood in some way can be applied to all, unless there is some impediment on their part. Everything must always be done to bring children to the baptismal fount whenever it is possible; non-Catholic parents who delay the baptism of their children up to some so-called age of reason etc, are objectively guilty of sin, because they deprive their children of so many graces that Baptism alone provides. But even if parents have failed, and a child died in infancy without a visible Baptism, we can commend that child in prayer to God, that His Blood be applied to him or her in some way before that child enters eternity, in an invisible Baptism.

In Nigeria, Jesus inspired a Prayer for the Unborn Children who are being massacred by Abortion today - of whom there are known to have been nearly a shocking 2 billion in just the last 50 years - promising to save a soul every time the prayer is said for them, with Church Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat: "(Jesus said: "Today the blood of innocent children has filled Heaven. Their number is too great, too great; the wrath of the Eternal Father is about to fall on mankind -- Their blood disturbs My Agonizing Heart and increases My agony --- Through this prayer, large numbers of innocent unborn babies will be saved; pray it daily and make it known to the world. Anyone who teaches it will not be lost. Innocent souls in Heaven will not let them become lost. I, with My Love and Mercy, will protect them from falling into mortal sin.") NIHIL OBSTAT: Rev. Fr. Stephen Obiukwu IMPRIMATUR: Ayo-Maria Atoyebi, O.P. Bishop of Ilorin Diocese" Prayer From: https://www.preciousbloodinternational.com/prayers_11.html

Prayer:

Heavenly Father, Your love is eternal. In Your ocean of love, You saved the world through Your only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Now look at Your only Son on the Cross Who is constantly bleeding for love of His people, and forgive Your world. Purify and baptize aborted children with the Precious Blood and Water from the Sacred Side of Your Son, Who hung dead on the Cross for their salvation, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. May they, through the Holy Death of Jesus Christ gain everlasting life, through His Wounds be healed, and through His Precious Blood be freed. There to rejoice with the Saints in Heaven. Amen."

I wish millions of Catholics would say this prayer every day and thousands of times and make it known to others so that they may also. Some assume they are already in Heaven, so no need of prayers; others believe that, even if they are in limbo now, prayers cannot help them, so no need of prayers per this belief also. I disagree with both views. I believe we can and should commend them to God.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 12:11:23 PM by Xavier »
"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin).

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 5500+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this year; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"O blessed Virgin, Mother of God, look down in mercy from Heaven, where thou art enthroned as Queen, upon me, a miserable sinner, thine unworthy servant. Although I know full well my own unworthiness, yet in order to atone for the offenses that are done to thee by impious and blasphemous tongues, from the depths of my heart I praise and extol thee as the purest, the fairest, the holiest creature of all God's handiwork. I bless thy holy Name, I praise thine exalted privilege of being truly Mother of God, ever Virgin, conceived without stain of sin, Co-Redemptrix of the human race. [20]" [Indulgence of 100 Days, 22 January 1914] https://www.piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/heart_mary/mystery_coredemptrix_papal_magisterium.htm Come, let us empty Purgatory: http://mtep.com/index.html Pray, "Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us: http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline red solo cup

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2020, 06:46:33 AM »
I don't pay much attention to a person who has been caught more than once with hookers.
"It's so lonely 'round the fields of Athenry"
 

Offline christulsa

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 01:48:23 PM »
Blessed sacramentals - scapulars, St Benedict medals, etc.  Find a group of nuns handing them out in a non-Christian country, and donate $ for that.  Ask the sisters to send you updates of conversions.
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: Jimmy Swaggart: the Holy Spirit will not help you.
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2020, 11:08:08 AM »
Other prayers for Unborn Babies: From: https://www.rosaryoftheunborn.eu/endorsement.htm

PRAYER TO END ABORTION

"O Divine Infant Jesus, present in the womb of Mary at conception by the power of the Holy Spirit, present in the crib at Bethlehem in obedience to the Will of God, open the heart of mankind to see that true peace will only come when there is peace in the womb." "Awaken mankind and help each soul to surrender to the Will of his Divine Creator. Amen."

PRAYER FOR THE UNBORN

Most Sorrowful Heart of Mary, let your mantle of protection fall upon all the unborn children of the world. Save them from any harm and nurture within their souls a predisposition towards holiness. Amen.

And: https://www.rosaryoftheunborn.eu/abouttherosary.htm

SPIRITUAL BAPTISM OF THE UNBORN

"Almighty God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Your Power and Grace transcends all time and space. Cast now Your compassionate glance upon all life in the womb from the moment of conception until the moment of birth. Caress these innocent souls in Your Merciful Love. Protect this life from any marauder. Bestow upon each soul You create a spiritual baptism, in Your Name, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen."

See Also:
"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin).

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 5500+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this year; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"O blessed Virgin, Mother of God, look down in mercy from Heaven, where thou art enthroned as Queen, upon me, a miserable sinner, thine unworthy servant. Although I know full well my own unworthiness, yet in order to atone for the offenses that are done to thee by impious and blasphemous tongues, from the depths of my heart I praise and extol thee as the purest, the fairest, the holiest creature of all God's handiwork. I bless thy holy Name, I praise thine exalted privilege of being truly Mother of God, ever Virgin, conceived without stain of sin, Co-Redemptrix of the human race. [20]" [Indulgence of 100 Days, 22 January 1914] https://www.piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/heart_mary/mystery_coredemptrix_papal_magisterium.htm Come, let us empty Purgatory: http://mtep.com/index.html Pray, "Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us: http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/