Since Vatican II is not ex cathedra, only a blind man would think it falls under Vatican I's definition of Papal Infallibility. Both Pope Paul VI and Pope Benedict XVI have said it does not - as if it needed to be said.
Amazing. Simply amazing.
God bless you, Kreuzritter. You have infinitely more patience than I do. Statements such as the above are why I gave up trying to answer Xavier long ago. I don't know if it is stupidity or plain bad faith and obstinacy. I should hope it is the former.
Its perfectly legitimate to state that Vatican 2 isnt dogmatic. If its that hard to accept the opinion of most people on this forum then you are free to go. And please take Kreuzritter with you, then both of you can thump your breasts and say ”Thank you God for not making us like those pitiful papists”
Yes, it's ridiculous. And these people don't care what Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, or Pope Benedict XVI had to say about it either; nor what Dietrich Von Hildebrand had to say about it, who was highly praised as a loyal Catholic thinker by Pope Pius XII, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. Vatican II has nothing to do with a 1894 Book written to examine Sacred Scripture, Tradition and early Councils.
In any case, it’s irrelevant to the point.
No, your "point" is irrelevant to the thread, first; and second, has already been addressed by numerous Papal Authorities you just ignored. Go start another thread on sede-vacantism or on Vatican II or whatever you want. This thread is to study what the early Church Fathers say about the authority of the Roman Church - with the first 500 years being in particular focus.
You also obviously didn't read the CE's clear explanation of Pope St. Clement's Epistle: "The first witness is St. Clement, a disciple of the Apostles, who, after Linus and Anacletus, succeeded St. Peter as the fourth in the list of popes....The tone of authority [in his Epistle to the Corinthians] which inspires the latter appears so clearly that [Protestant scholar J.B.] Lightfoot did not hesitate to speak of it as 'the first step towards papal domination' ...Thus, at the very commencement of church history, before the last survivor of the Apostles had passed away, we find a Bishop of Rome, himself a disciple of St. Peter, intervening in the affairs of another Church and claiming to settle the matter by a decision spoken under the influence of the Holy Spirit."
Read the whole epistle here, and you'll see what Pope St. Clement of Rome is talking about: "For, as God lives, and as the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost live — both the faith and hope of the elect, he who in lowliness of mind, with instant gentleness, and without repentance has observed the ordinances and appointments given by God— the same shall obtain a place and name in the number of those who are being saved through Jesus Christ, through whom is glory to Him for ever and ever. Amen.
Chapter 59. Warning Against Disobedience. Prayer.
If, however, any shall disobey the words spoken by Him through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and serious danger ..."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm It is obvious Him refers to God in this passage.
St. Irenaeus comments on the letter: "Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority [potiorem principalitatem].
3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolic tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm