Author Topic: Duration of Purgatory  (Read 240 times)

Offline Philip G.

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Duration of Purgatory
« on: January 04, 2020, 01:17:14 AM »
I am under the impression from what I have read over the years that purgatory can last for hundreds of years.   

If correct, that would mean that it takes hundreds of years for the soul of a just man to attain beatitude.  However, I see a problem with that.  How is it that a just soul takes hundreds of years to attain such, while a contemporary of his who is damned, attains the fullness of their malice in one lifetime?  You have heard it before, "death, judgement, and then straight to hell".

Unless perhaps, the souls of the damned have their own type of purgatory, where their punishments as the just would understand a punishment(fire and torment) do not begin right away.  But, instead, the punishments of the soul of one damned is postponed so that the fullness of their malice may come about, even if it did not come about in this life. 

What catholic doctrines support or contract such a theory?

Basically, if there is a purgatory for the just, how is their not an appropriate and proportionate(the key word as I initially mentioned time here) type of purgatory of pleasure after death for the damned?

Does not gradualism go both ways? 

I can think of dante's inferno with many levels, however heaven is not quite styled as such.  If it were, why would there be a need for hundreds of years of purgatory?

« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 01:21:19 AM by Philip G. »
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: Duration of Purgatory
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2020, 01:27:08 AM »
I think of lucifer's banishment from heaven.  Lucifer was cast out like a lightening bolt, but the other angels were swept down by lucifers tail.  That indicates a difference in time.  But, on top of that, are all the souls of the damned comparable to those with an angelic nature?  I don't think so.  But, are we to only conclude that those with an angelic nature go to hell?   I don't think so.  So, what happens do the damned not on a straight path down? 

Another note, Christ descended into hell; not of the damned of course.  But, Christ descended.  That means down.
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Re: Duration of Purgatory
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2020, 02:18:49 AM »
Hell is for mortal sin. Mortal sin of necessity incurs eternal pr everlasting punishment. Purgatory is only for venial sin, as also for forgiven mortal sin for which no penance has been done. Now, early Church canons used to give in some cases around 20 years of penance for every single forgiven mortal sin, although this could be decreased by indulgences. Now, consider a person who has committed 20 such mortal sins, sadly, but, happily, repents of it before death, by God's Mercy going for confession with contrition, but without performing due penance. Then, such a person will likely have to spend at least 400 years in Purgatory, since Divine Justice is likely to be more severe than Church Justice, especially when Merciful Indulgences and other abundant means of forgiveness given to the Church have not been availed of. At any rate, it will be a long time. Hence, it is very foolish to go to one's death like that. But since the Mercy of God does not absolutely forsake even guilty sinners who have repented, but not done penance, Indulgences, Satisfactory works, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and other suffrages, as we know can be offered up for the departed. If someone gains many years indulgence for them, they can be released. But those in hell are eternally lost for the simple reason that they chose to commit many mortal sins, persisted in them for a long time, and then died obstinate in final impenitence without any repentance, love of God, or contrition. Such persons had their opportunity in life to confess their sins to the Church. They have it no longer. So nothing can be done for them.

Reflections on Hell and Purgatory should show us how precious the God-given gift of time is, and how necessary it is to turn to the Church, make good confessions, do much penance, gain many indulgences etc is before it runs out, and it becomes too late for us to do so.
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: Duration of Purgatory
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 03:47:27 PM »
Hell is for mortal sin. Mortal sin of necessity incurs eternal pr everlasting punishment. Purgatory is only for venial sin, as also for forgiven mortal sin for which no penance has been done. Now, early Church canons used to give in some cases around 20 years of penance for every single forgiven mortal sin, although this could be decreased by indulgences. Now, consider a person who has committed 20 such mortal sins, sadly, but, happily, repents of it before death, by God's Mercy going for confession with contrition, but without performing due penance. Then, such a person will likely have to spend at least 400 years in Purgatory, since Divine Justice is likely to be more severe than Church Justice, especially when Merciful Indulgences and other abundant means of forgiveness given to the Church have not been availed of. At any rate, it will be a long time. Hence, it is very foolish to go to one's death like that. But since the Mercy of God does not absolutely forsake even guilty sinners who have repented, but not done penance, Indulgences, Satisfactory works, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and other suffrages, as we know can be offered up for the departed. If someone gains many years indulgence for them, they can be released. But those in hell are eternally lost for the simple reason that they chose to commit many mortal sins, persisted in them for a long time, and then died obstinate in final impenitence without any repentance, love of God, or contrition. Such persons had their opportunity in life to confess their sins to the Church. They have it no longer. So nothing can be done for them.

Reflections on Hell and Purgatory should show us how precious the God-given gift of time is, and how necessary it is to turn to the Church, make good confessions, do much penance, gain many indulgences etc is before it runs out, and it becomes too late for us to do so.

There is a saying that the devils "time is short".  But, that saying does not just apply to the earthly life of the wicked, in fact, it is my understanding that the saying principally regards the devils time to drag as many souls to hell before the end of the world at the general judgement.  That is what is meant by the devils "short time".  Because, in comparison to eternity, it is short.  If the devil has time after death to work, how is it that lesser damned souls do not have time after death for their malice and punishment to mature?  Just souls have time after death in purgatory before they attain beatitude.  That place of work for the greater and lesser damned would be this anti-purgatory.   

This gets me thinking about limbo in relation.  Is limbo only for physical infants?  Is it not potentially also for invalids?  If it is also for invalids, it must be noted that many valids have become invalids later in life. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: Duration of Purgatory
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 04:36:28 PM »
If conversely it is as the underworld would have it be, that sin is unforgivable, and to leave behind all hope upon entering(committing a mortal sin), should not the scriptures emphasize more the unforgivable sin and its consequences?  Perhaps it is that this conversation is really a conversation more appropriate for limbo.  Because, we will all concur that the enemy has entered the church and hijacked it.  Some say it has only be 60 years, others say it has been much longer.  If it is the case that it has been the much longer, that would mean that there are potential influences upon the church by wicked deceased.  Not that I am taking this conversation to the level of approved devotions, but cult comes before approval.  There may very well be cultus of evil in the church that a blind eye has been turned to because we have this believe that if one is damned and dead, they are of no further influence on the church. 

If it is the case that the lesser damned are of no further influence after death, that would mean that they no longer merit further punishment than what they merited while on earth.  The problem with that however is that it would serve no purpose for them to be resurrected at the final judgment than for the sake of visuals and vindication of sorts.  Because, it would mean that no further judgment would be passed on them by Christ beyond what has been passed at their private judgment. 

I say this because it seems to me that there is a de emphasis by proxy of the general judgment.  When in fact, it is a doctrine of the church.  And, it doesn't make much sense in light of many of our developed doctrines and devotions in my opinion. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12