Author Topic: Mass offered for a heretic  (Read 176 times)

Offline JeanVianney

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Mass offered for a heretic
« on: October 09, 2019, 02:58:58 PM »
I am curious about your answers. As you know I am a former protestant, that means I have plenty of friends, who are heretics. My question is can priest offer for them the mass ?I have read it in Augustine writings I mean it was in de civitate dei, that for a heretic cannot be offered the mass. But I have found in it a good catechism namely Spirago s cathechism too
I am very confused. But I mean it is logical, that for a heretic cannot be offered a mass because he is NOT with the Communion of the Roman Catholic church. Somebody told me that for a heretic can be offered the mass, when there is a intention of his conversion.
So what are your opinions ?

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 03:05:30 PM »
Heresy is a sin, a heretic is a sinner, we must pray for sinners - that includes ourselves. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is far and away the best possible remedy and yes of course, can be offered for the conversion of heretics. 
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 03:17:04 PM »
Might help if you provide a reference for where it said that in de civitatae.

"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 

Offline dellery

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 08:05:08 PM »
I am curious about your answers. As you know I am a former protestant, that means I have plenty of friends, who are heretics. My question is can priest offer for them the mass ?I have read it in Augustine writings I mean it was in de civitate dei, that for a heretic cannot be offered the mass. But I have found in it a good catechism namely Spirago s cathechism too
I am very confused. But I mean it is logical, that for a heretic cannot be offered a mass because he is NOT with the Communion of the Roman Catholic church. Somebody told me that for a heretic can be offered the mass, when there is a intention of his conversion.
So what are your opinions ?

After having read a few of your posts, it's safe to say you seriously need to find a priest to mentor you.
Since you have to drive a long distance to your chapel, start exchanging emails, or better yet written letters, on a weekly basis. In the mean time, pick up a Baltimore Catechism, study it, and live by it. You place too much emphasis on being a former protestant. It looks as if you're getting bogged down and not pushing forward in your spiritual life --loitering around with the unpleasantness of the past.
You can not help the lost find the path if you're not already walking down it. If you want to do good for others focus on strengthening yourself first.
Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household.
He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it.
 
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 08:15:40 PM »
Heresy is a sin, a heretic is a sinner, we must pray for sinners - that includes ourselves. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is far and away the best possible remedy and yes of course, can be offered for the conversion of heretics.

I was taught that you can't have public Masses said but private ones are OK.
 

Offline JeanVianney

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2019, 09:52:35 PM »
[quote author=dellery link=topic=22770.msg483454#msg483454 date=1570665908After having read a few of your posts, it's safe to say you seriously need to find a priest to mentor you.
Since you have to drive a long distance to your chapel, start exchanging emails, or better yet written letters, on a weekly basis. In the mean time, pick up a Baltimore Catechism, study it, and live by it. You place too much emphasis on being a former protestant. It looks as if you're getting bogged down and not pushing forward in your spiritual life --loitering around with the unpleasantness of the past.
You can not help the lost find the path if you're not already walking down it. If you want to do good for others focus on strengthening yourself first.
[/quote]
I mean you are right. I ask him. But I do not know if there is time for the priest. The problem for me is I would like to have a profound knowledge of theology like my priest. I mean it has someting to do with my protestant friends and being worried about their salvarion mainly of my former misussed girlfriend. But I should FIRSTLY focus on sanctification of myself. I come to conclusion I have tu study catechisms for now and then begin with reall theology. I have found letters of PADRE PIO in italian on the internet. I mean I should read some of them for my sanctification. He is my favorite saint too.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 10:04:11 PM by JeanVianney »
Domine non sum dignus
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Salus animarum suprema lex
Professio fidei tridentina
Sacrorum Antistitum
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2019, 10:55:26 PM »
Knowledge is only useful so far as it pushes us to holiness.

You might listen and follow along with these catechism lessons from a very learned, and if I dare say holy, priest, Fr. James Jackson of the FSSP:

https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/post/audio_catechism

He also has a series on the Beatitudes:
https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/post/the_eight_beatitudes

A retreat talk (series) given at a Carmel:

https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/post/st._teresa_of_avila_and_the_woman_at_the_well

And for some other sermons by him and also by Fr. Daniel Nolan:
https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/audio

"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2019, 12:28:36 AM »

After having read a few of your posts, it's safe to say you seriously need to find a priest to mentor you.
Since you have to drive a long distance to your chapel, start exchanging emails, or better yet written letters, on a weekly basis. In the mean time, pick up a Baltimore Catechism, study it, and live by it. You place too much emphasis on being a former protestant. It looks as if you're getting bogged down and not pushing forward in your spiritual life --loitering around with the unpleasantness of the past.
You can not help the lost find the path if you're not already walking down it. If you want to do good for others focus on strengthening yourself first.
I mean you are right. I ask him. But I do not know if there is time for the priest. The problem for me is I would like to have a profound knowledge of theology like my priest. I mean it has someting to do with my protestant friends and being worried about their salvarion mainly of my former misussed girlfriend. But I should FIRSTLY focus on sanctification of myself. I come to conclusion I have tu study catechisms for now and then begin with reall theology. I have found letters of PADRE PIO in italian on the internet. I mean I should read some of them for my sanctification. He is my favorite saint too.

Sanctification does not come from profound knowledge, but from loving God and doing His will.  God wills for all to obtain greater knowledge of Him and His Church, but not for all to become profound scholars.  What is most essential is to PRAY, and to make use of the Sacraments. Make time for the priest for the Sacraments and to learn what you need to know. PRAY for your own holiness, and for your friends' conversion: that is what is most powerful.  Profound knowledge obtained through study  is excellent, and since you are so eager to obtain it,  it may be God's will for you: e.g. if you have a vocation to be a priest, or a great scholar.  But many of the greatest Catholics (including Padre Pio) did not have "profound knowledge" obtained through great study - and yet I'm sure they made many converts.

Helping your Lutheran friends even through study may not require the depth of knowledge that you think.  Read good apologetics books or sites (maybe others can recommend some).

But first of all learn the basics (see Gardener's post),  receive the Sacraments frequently, and PRAY.

 

« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 12:36:42 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline JeanVianney

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2019, 01:26:11 AM »
Knowledge is only useful so far as it pushes us to holiness.

You might listen and follow along with these catechism lessons from a very learned, and if I dare say holy, priest, Fr. James Jackson of the FSSP:

https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/post/audio_catechism

He also has a series on the Beatitudes:
https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/post/the_eight_beatitudes

A retreat talk (series) given at a Carmel:

https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/post/st._teresa_of_avila_and_the_woman_at_the_well

And for some other sermons by him and also by Fr. Daniel Nolan:
https://www.olmcfssp.org/index.php/olmc/audio
Thanks for that. It s a great stuff. I am listening to this sermons.
Domine non sum dignus
Christus vincit Christus regnat Christus imperat
Salus animarum suprema lex
Professio fidei tridentina
Sacrorum Antistitum
 

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Mass offered for a heretic
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2019, 06:39:31 AM »
Heresy is a sin, a heretic is a sinner, we must pray for sinners - that includes ourselves. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is far and away the best possible remedy and yes of course, can be offered for the conversion of heretics.

I was taught that you can't have public Masses said but private ones are OK.

I believe the private Masses are only for those deceased who died outside of the Church, but for what JV is talking about, he certainly can have Masses offered for the conversion of his non-Catholic ("heretic" for short) friends and relatives. 
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent
 
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