Author Topic: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...  (Read 881 times)

Offline gsas

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How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« on: September 12, 2019, 01:18:44 AM »
It is a cliche that no matter how much you pray, certain problems never go away, such as birth defects, autism, amputations, and so on.  Even if church records indicate that for example medieval plague deaths negatively correlated with the number of rosaries prayed. 

But here is probably the best example how the devil fools us that it has more power than God. 

https://www.nap.edu/read/10569/chapter/4

In this link it is unfortunately not mentioned, but the internet traffic started to pick up minutes before the 911 world trade center attacks, worldwide, as if they had already happened.  In other words, the devil used the very will of individual people, to build up to starting damages.

So, what can you do, to avoid sin, when the devil does the above, and controls your very own will, to execute the sin?  You can't anticipate something that you haven't yet imagined. So the devil walks always in front of us. 

This generates the illusion that the devil has more power than God.  Then this illusion is cemented as reality when you realize that there is no amount of prayers that you can do to stop the consequences. 

Every soul has a path. God has a plan for everyone's life.  But when the devil takes over your will, and as above, makes you ask to do the devil"s work to your own detriment, then the devil has successfully bypassed God.  This is because after God grants you your will and request to do the devil"s work, you will have to wait until your death to argue to St Peter how much the devil took over your will to make you end up wanting to do those devilish mistakes. 

Even when the mistake is obvious, and everyone can tell that what you want is not you and will cleArly harm you, your will be granted to you.

Therefore it is your own soul that condemns you, right after the devil has modified it, to serve your "will" that he planted into you.  Very clever, and 911 is the highest statistical proof of it. Disgraceful. 


« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 01:39:37 AM by gsas »
 

Offline Bernadette

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 08:21:56 AM »
The devil doesn't take over our will. We're in control over whether we sin or not.

Here's a link to a good Catechism: https://www.amazon.com/Baltimore-Catechism-No-Confraternity-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B00ESVLH5Y/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Baltimore+Catechism+3&qid=1568290878&s=digital-text&sr=1-1
"Make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is come to life again; he was lost, and is found."
 
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 08:22:59 AM »
The devil never takes over your will to the extent of depriving you of free will; even in the case of those that fall into diabolic possession or sell their souls to the devil, they still retain their free will and can ask for God's help to free them from the dominion of the devil. God is stronger than the devil, and the devil can only go as far as God permits him to. The devil can never bypass God.
The evils that occur in the world are the consequence of the free will of man which by sin, introduced sickness and death into the world; but these evils when patiently supported for the love of God, can be turned to our profit and salvation.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline gsas

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 09:46:52 AM »
If free will was not at least a potential victim of the devil, then everyone would be able to exorcise himself, there would be no exorcist priests in every diocese.
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 09:42:44 PM »
If free will was not at least a potential victim of the devil, then everyone would be able to exorcise himself, there would be no exorcist priests in every diocese.

No one can forgive his own sins either.  That doesn't make the will the victim, we are just incapable of doing certain things that we do will. Satan has power but not enough to cause the will to sin. Once a man is possessed an exorcist priest must be called, but any actual sinfulness in the man's soul (even if is inviting the devil in) came from his own will not by the power of the devil. The devil can influence but not cause the will to choose evil.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!
 
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Offline gsas

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 02:55:42 AM »
If free will was not at least a potential victim of the devil, then everyone would be able to exorcise himself, there would be no exorcist priests in every diocese.

No one can forgive his own sins either.  That doesn't make the will the victim, we are just incapable of doing certain things that we do will. Satan has power but not enough to cause the will to sin. Once a man is possessed an exorcist priest must be called, but any actual sinfulness in the man's soul (even if is inviting the devil in) came from his own will not by the power of the devil. The devil can influence but not cause the will to choose evil.

I wish that all three of you were right. 

But church records include exorcism on babies too. Surely they are not capable yet to act upon their sin to invite the devil into themselves.  One case I saw was a baby seeing a terrifying ghost that nobody else could see, but made the baby so threatened that it was enough for a demon to enter the baby. 

So if I understand your point to be free will versus personal invitation, then it seems that free will always results in personal invitation, depending on how much fear energizes it.
 

Offline gsas

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 09:58:59 AM »
OK I guess a Gospel reference is a better way to illustrate the loss of free will under demons, rather than church records and anecdotes.

Here is Mark 5:4-6.

4Though he was often bound with chains and shackles, he had broken the chains and shattered the shackles. Now there was no one with the strength to subdue him. 5Night and day in the tombs and in the mountains, he kept crying out and cutting himself with stones. 6When the man saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees before Him.

He was cutting himself as per his free will, fully captured by the devil.

Another example of loss of free will under demons could be the Papal response to St Fatima, when she asked for the consecration of Russia.  All the pope was able to do was some cursory meeting with a few people, no consecration.  Only after all the plans of the devil had been accomplished, including the establishment of the Soviet Union and a 2nd world war, was the free will restored, and pope John Paul II became capable of conducting the consecration. 

Now how is that for power?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:01:28 AM by gsas »
 

Offline St.Justin

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 01:04:05 PM »
OK I guess a Gospel reference is a better way to illustrate the loss of free will under demons, rather than church records and anecdotes.

Here is Mark 5:4-6.

4Though he was often bound with chains and shackles, he had broken the chains and shattered the shackles. Now there was no one with the strength to subdue him. 5Night and day in the tombs and in the mountains, he kept crying out and cutting himself with stones. 6When the man saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees before Him.

He was cutting himself as per his free will, fully captured by the devil.

Another example of loss of free will under demons could be the Papal response to St Fatima, when she asked for the consecration of Russia.  All the pope was able to do was some cursory meeting with a few people, no consecration.  Only after all the plans of the devil had been accomplished, including the establishment of the Soviet Union and a 2nd world war, was the free will restored, and pope John Paul II became capable of conducting the consecration. 

Now how is that for power?

First off babies can't sin. No one can until they reach the age of reason (which the Church has determined to be 7 years of age).
Second Physicalities are not the same as the will
Third refusing to accept the Actual Grace to do the will of God is not demonic possession.
Fourth who is ST Fatima?
 

Offline gsas

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 01:39:06 PM »
OK I guess a Gospel reference is a better way to illustrate the loss of free will under demons, rather than church records and anecdotes.

Here is Mark 5:4-6.

4Though he was often bound with chains and shackles, he had broken the chains and shattered the shackles. Now there was no one with the strength to subdue him. 5Night and day in the tombs and in the mountains, he kept crying out and cutting himself with stones. 6When the man saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees before Him.

He was cutting himself as per his free will, fully captured by the devil.

Another example of loss of free will under demons could be the Papal response to St Fatima, when she asked for the consecration of Russia.  All the pope was able to do was some cursory meeting with a few people, no consecration.  Only after all the plans of the devil had been accomplished, including the establishment of the Soviet Union and a 2nd world war, was the free will restored, and pope John Paul II became capable of conducting the consecration. 

Now how is that for power?

First off babies can't sin. No one can until they reach the age of reason (which the Church has determined to be 7 years of age).
Second Physicalities are not the same as the will
Third refusing to accept the Actual Grace to do the will of God is not demonic possession.
Fourth who is ST Fatima?

Are you saying that the Church determines the age of reason at 7?  Almost all 7 year olds regularly sell their souls to any nearest devil for as much as one candy!  Even the jews set the age of reason at 13. 

And by St Fatima, I meant Our Lady of Fatima, OK not a good abbreviation, but was quick and handy to write her like that. Plus I really like the word "saint". 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima

Also, what do you mean that physicalities are not the same as the will?  Mark 5:4 declares that there was nobody around and he was unrestrained, so he was free.  Then Mark 5:5 says that he hurt himself.  So if he was free then he hurt himself, then that must have been his free will.  Hijacked by something that Jesus had to deal with.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:34:27 PM by gsas »
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 01:41:55 PM »
The Church teaches, dogmatically, that certain conditions remove man's ability to freely choose:

1. Young age. 
Infants, for example, act on impulse, instinct, and bodily need, not on intellect.  Past infancy, the child still cannot reason well (distinguish between right and wrong and decided between them) until about age 7, which is why that's the traditional age for receipt of Holy Communion.

2. Severe mental impairment.
That would include dementia, any brain damage in an adult which similarly affects will.  Once a person loses the ability to control impulses, he loses the ability to sin, despite the evil/sadness, etc. he may inflict on others due to his actions.

3. Coercion from another person.

With regard to #2, psychosis is a little more complicated, so I don't want to go into it here in great detail.  I will say this, however, with regard to mental disturbance, because it came up in another thread, too:  A person who knows or senses that something is amiss in his or her psyche, and becomes aware of evil consequences that have resulted because of his own disturbed psyche (whether neurosis, mood disorder, or psychosis) has an affirmative obligation to seek healing, which is normally through secular means (professional mental health treatment).  That would be a universal moral requirement, not limited to Catholics.  It's just part of natural law.  So the sin would be in -- having become conscious at any point of the evil effects of an internal condition -- choosing not to do anything about that, for any reason.

The second important point about #2 is that any mental disturbance, untreated, is wonderful soil for the devil.  By definition, mental impairment is a disorder of a primary kind.  Mental impairment weakens the resolve of the person affected, distracts him, reorganizes his priorities toward feeding his illness rather than cooperating with the order of the universe and his humble place within it.  True health is not the immediate object of desire; rather, immediate gratification is -- gratification in the form of satisfying a deluded sense of self, acquiring power in minor or major ways in order to fulfill a distorted grandiosity, etc. 

The important point about all of this, for purposes of the thread conversation, is that only certain situations release a human being from responsibility for decisions to sin.  Most of us will not be in category 2 or 3 for most of our lives.  And merely having a mental condition is not in itself a sin; most of these are genetic, even if the triggers for them come much after birth.

The devil is an opportunist; this is also Catholic dogma.  He seeks, actively, for his opportunities to invade, seize, and destroy, and mental and spiritual disorders are fertile ground for him. I recommend Fr. Ripperger's many audio sermons on Spiritual Warfare.  He is an exorcist who explains some of the conditions which "invite" (even passively) the entrance of the devil.  Fr. R is also very clear, however, that --as other posters have said -- the devil cannot remove our will; we give him permission one way or another -- through weakness, acquiescence, etc.  Fr. R also says that he has never encountered a possession of a person who was living a normally holy life (lay life, not consecrated life), keeping up their prayer activity on a regular -- not extreme-- basis and who was staying out of mortal sin.

Entrenched sin or unconfessed sin is a ripe opportunity for the devil.  Ingrained evil habits, also.  Habits, by the way -- despite the modernistic acceptance of the term "addiction" to describe every stubborn habit -- do not remove our free will.  That includes pornography use.  A person may weaken his or her resolve against a sinful habit, due to augmented levels of expectation, but the culpability remains.  The more persistent any of our sins are, the more obliged we are to root them out; at no point does persistent sin remove our free will.
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2019, 02:25:33 PM »
...
Another example of loss of free will under demons could be the Papal response to St Fatima, when she asked for the consecration of Russia.  All the pope was able to do was some cursory meeting with a few people, no consecration.  Only after all the plans of the devil had been accomplished, including the establishment of the Soviet Union and a 2nd world war, was the free will restored, and pope John Paul II became capable of conducting the consecration. 
...

That is "pulpable".  ;D
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
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Offline gsas

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2019, 02:42:08 PM »
...
Another example of loss of free will under demons could be the Papal response to St Fatima, when she asked for the consecration of Russia.  All the pope was able to do was some cursory meeting with a few people, no consecration.  Only after all the plans of the devil had been accomplished, including the establishment of the Soviet Union and a 2nd world war, was the free will restored, and pope John Paul II became capable of conducting the consecration. 
...

That is "pulpable".  ;D
:) 
I have now looked this word up in the dictionary.  You are right, the spelling is palpable.  I will never figure out how the English language decides which letter of the alphabet goes where.  Luckily there are only 26 of them.
 

Offline mikemac

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2019, 12:18:47 AM »
...
Another example of loss of free will under demons could be the Papal response to St Fatima, when she asked for the consecration of Russia.  All the pope was able to do was some cursory meeting with a few people, no consecration.  Only after all the plans of the devil had been accomplished, including the establishment of the Soviet Union and a 2nd world war, was the free will restored, and pope John Paul II became capable of conducting the consecration. 
...

That is "pulpable".  ;D
:) 
I have now looked this word up in the dictionary.  You are right, the spelling is palpable.  I will never figure out how the English language decides which letter of the alphabet goes where.  Luckily there are only 26 of them.

John Paul II did not consecrate Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart, he consecrated the world in 1984.  The consecration still needs to be done properly.  If JP II had the free will to consecrate the world then he had the free will to consecrate Russia.  Big story here to do with not wanting to offend the Russian Orthodox and other crap.

Our Lady of Fatima told the three children that the war would end but a worse one would start if men did not correct themselves and turn to God, World War II.  Men had the free will to obey to avoid WWII.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
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Offline Daniel

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Re: How the devil projects that it has more power than God ...
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 11:33:01 AM »
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:45:52 AM by Daniel »