Author Topic: Novus Ordo's ecumenical Holy Name of Mary "Mass" lacks Ecclus. 24:24-31 reading!  (Read 128 times)

Offline Geremia

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The Novus Ordo's "Mass" for today's feast of the Holy Name of Mary (nor the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary) doesn't even use Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 24:24-31 for its "Epistle" reading!

This is not surprising because that chapter was "ecumeninicized" in post-Vatican II "Catholic bible" translations:

The NRSV-CE (1989) comes from the RSV-CE (1966), which is a 1946 Protestant translation with all canonical books included (pp. xviii & 9 of Which Bible Should You Read?). Which Bible Should You Read? pp. 28-30 gives another example of a glaring omission of verses in nominally Catholic bibles: Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 24:24-31. The Douay version reads:
Quote
... [24] I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope. Ego mater pulchrae dilectionis, et timoris, et agnitionis, et sanctae spei. ... [25] In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue. In me gratia omnis viae et veritatis : in me omnis spes vitae et virtutis. ... [26] Come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits.  Transite ad me, omnes qui concupiscitis me, et a generationibus meis implemini : ... [27] For my spirit is sweet above honey, and my inheritance above honey and the honeycomb.  spiritus enim meus super mel dulcis, et haereditas mea super mel et favum. ... [28] My memory is unto everlasting generations.  Memoria mea in generatione saeculorum. ... [29] They that eat me, shall yet hunger: and they that drink me, shall yet thirst.  Qui edunt me, adhuc esurient, et qui bibunt me, adhuc sitient. ... [30] He that hearkeneth to me, shall not be confounded: and they that work by me, shall not sin.  Qui audit me non confundetur, et qui operantur in me non peccabunt : ... [31] They that explain me shall have life everlasting. qui elucidant me, vitam aeternam habebunt.
But the NRSV-CE of Sirach 24 omits the bold verses above, and NRSV-CE v. 19 corresponds to Douay v. 26! Douay vv. 24-25's omission is explained in a footnote of the NSRV-CE, but the NRSV-CE doesn't explain its omission of Douay v. 31 in a footnote! These verses were probably omitted because the Catholic Church uses them in the liturgy for various feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mother, and mention of her is a scandal to Protestants. According to Which Bible Should You Read? p. 29,
Quote
All together, Chapter 24 of Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) has some […] 13 fewer verses in the CRSV [Catholic Revised Standard Version] than the Vulgate and DRB [Douay-Rheims Bible]! 
Indeed, the Douay version has 47 verses, and the NRSV-CE has only 34. The "old Latin vulgate" is the only official edition of Holy Scriptures for the universal Church, as defined in the Council of Trent.
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« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:50:22 AM by Geremia »
 
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Offline Geremia

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"prayer and fasting" missing in Mt. 17 & "fasting" missing in Mk. 9!
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 11:46:02 AM »
"But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting." is omitted in their "Catholic"-Protestant versions of Matthew 17, too.

For example, the NABRE explains the omission:
Quote
* [17:21] Some manuscripts add, “But this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting”; this is a variant of the better reading of [NABRE] Mk 9:29.
And the NABRE omits mentioning "fasting" in its translation of Mk 9:29:
Quote from: NABRE
He said to them, “This kind can only come out through prayer.”
cf. Rheims Mk. 9:28:
Quote from: Rheims
And he said to them: This kind can go out by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

I completely forgot how disgusting the Novus Ordo is! They omit verses and renumber them, too! Diabolical!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 03:42:36 PM by Geremia »
 
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Offline Prayerful

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The New Mass Lectionary, wrongly acclaimed as one of its best features, has a notably characteristic where 'pastorally difficult' passages were removed from the periscopes for particularly days. It says so in GIRM. This should stand as a good example of that.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 

Offline Sempronius

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Re: "prayer and fasting" missing in Mt. 17 & "fasting" missing in Mk. 9!
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 03:06:07 PM »
"But this kind is not cast out but by prayer and fasting." is omitted in their "Catholic"-Protestant versions of Matthew 17, too.

For example, the NABRE explains the omission:
Quote
* [17:21] Some manuscripts add, “But this kind does not come out except by prayer and fasting”; this is a variant of the better reading of [NABRE] Mk 9:29.
And the NABRE omits mentioning "fasting" in its translation of Mk 9:29:
Quote from: NABRE
He said to them, “This kind can only come out through prayer.”
cf. Rheims Mk. 9:28:
Quote from: Rheims
And he said to them: This kind can go out by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

I completely forgot how disgusting the Novus Ordo is! They omit verses and renumber them, too! Diabolical disorientation!

Thanks for the reminder. Truly diabolical. I once talked to a deacon about this and he said it was omitted because in one manuscript fasting wasnt mentioned. So they just gladly accepted that and went along with their protestant brothers
 
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Offline martin88nyc

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 :ghost1: the the ghost and spirit of Vatican II. Is there even such a thing?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 11:07:07 PM by martin88nyc »
"These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world." John 16:33
 

Offline Prayerful

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:ghost1:the the ghost and spirit of Vatican II. Is there even such a thing?

The New Lectionary editing, stated plainly in GIRM, makes it clear enough this editing was no 'Spirit of V2' radicalism. An Oratorian doing the NOM in Latin still has the same compromised text.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 

Offline aquinas138

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Re: "prayer and fasting" missing in Mt. 17 & "fasting" missing in Mk. 9!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 02:10:19 AM »
I completely forgot how disgusting the Novus Ordo is! They omit verses and renumber them, too! Diabolical!

One thing to note: the Bible wasn't divided into verses until the middle 16th century, and the first complete Bible to feature versification was the Geneva Bible, so the versification of the Vulgate is not traditional in the sense that the Vulgate itself is traditional. And certain books like Ecclesiasticus/Sirach have a complicated textual history.

I still think the Roman Church should use the Vulgate, though.
O unashamed intercessor of Christians, ever loyal advocate before the Creator, do not disregard the prayerful voice of sinners but in your goodness hasten to assist us who trustfully cry out to you: Intercede always, O Mother of God, in behalf of those who honor you!