Author Topic: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.  (Read 1191 times)

Offline Fleur-de-Lys

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Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« on: July 15, 2019, 04:12:25 PM »
“Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.”

I’ve seen this meme posted a few times by Muslims online. It caught my attention, and sparked my curiosity. First of all, I had to look up ghayrah.  :D

From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghayrah

Quote
Ghayrah
Ghayrah (Arabic: غَيْرَة‎) (sometimes transliterated as ghayra, ghira, gheerah or gheera) is an Arabic word which means a person’s dislike of another’s sharing in a right (which belongs to the former). It has a sense of earnest concern or zeal over something and can be considered a kind of protective jealousy.[1] In Islam, there are different kinds of ghayrah: that which relates to Allah and which relates to a Muslim. Allah's discontent is with sharing the obedience of his servant which rightfully belongs to him. For a Muslim it is the uneasiness in his heart which moves him to guard his family from indecency.

Background
The term is based on the following Quran verses:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" (Quran - Surah An-Nisa: 34)[2]
"Oh you who believe, Protect yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones." (Quran - Surah At-Tahrim: 6):

Men who do not have ghayrah are known as a dayyuth (Arabic: دَيُّوث‎). Being a dayyuth is a major sin and a description of what is deemed an evil characteristic can be found in Az-Zahabi's book of Major Sins (Al-Kaba'ir). Mohammed and his companions were known to have very strong ghayrah.[3][4]

Although it is claimed that the concept of ghayrah is the source of honor killings in the Islamic world,[5][6][7] Salafi scholar Muhammad Al-Munajjid asserts that punishment of any crime is reserved for the Islamic ruler[8] noting that the penalty for fornication (unmarried sexual relationships for unmarried people) is 100 lashes.[8] As it is a Muslim man's role as the guardian of his family, he is responsible for those in his custody and it is his duty to observe the conduct of his wife and children; although this does allow him to be overly suspicious or exceed the acceptable standards of supervision.[9] For conservative Muslims, the enforcement of the wearing of the hijab by a Muslim man's wife and daughters[10][11] and the prevention of the free mingling between the sexes for those under a Muslim man's guardianship[10] are necessary actions under the concept of ghayrah to preserving one's honor. Per Salafi scholar Al-Munajjid, if a Muslim man suspects that certain family members will commit an immoral act, he is allowed to tie up or otherwise detain them in order to prevent the action.[12]

Salafi scholar Muhammad Al-Munajjid indicates that the concept also applies to protecting Muhammad from blasphemy although the determination of guilt and application of the penalty (execution) is to be solely applied by Islamic authorities.[13]

Linguistic Meaning
Hans Wehr's Arabic dictionary defines ghayrah as: jealously; zeal, fervor, earnest concern, vigilant care, solicitude (على for); sense of honor, self-respect. It can be defined as a person’s dislike of another’s sharing in a right (which belongs to the former).

Ghayrah in the Hadith
Narrated By Abu Huraira: The Prophet; said, “Indeed, Allah has ghayrah, and the faithful believer has ghayrah, and the ghayrah which Allah has is provoked when a believer commits that which Allah has forbidden.” [al-Bukhari (4925) and Muslim (2761)]

Asma' relates, "When az-Zubayr married me, he had neither land nor wealth nor slave", so Asma' had to work very hard kneading dough, going far off to get water. "And I used to carry on my head," she continues, "the date stones from the land of az-Zubair which Allah's Messenger had endowed him and it was a distance of two miles from Madinah. One day, as I was carrying the date-stones upon my head, I happened to meet Allah's Messenger, along with a group of his Companions. He called me and told the camel to sit down so that he could make me ride behind him. I felt shy to go with men and I remembered az-Zubair and his ghayrah and he was a man having the most ghayrah. The Messenger of Allah understood my shyness and left. I came to az-Zubair and said, "The Messenger of Allah met me as I was carrying date-stones upon my head and there was with him a group of his Companions. He told the camel to kneel so that I could mount it, but I felt shy and I remembered your ghayrah." So Asma' declined the offer made by the Prophet. Upon this az-Zubair said, "By Allah, the thought of you carrying date-stones upon your head is more severe a burden on me than you riding with him." (related in Sahih Bukhari)

Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Masud: RasulAllah said: “There is none having a greater sense of ghayrah than Allah. And for that He has forbidden the doing of evil actions (illegal sexual intercourse etc.).” (related in Sahih Bukhari)[6]

"The foundation of the Religion is ghayrah, and the one without ghayrah is one without Religion, for ghayrah protects the heart and enlivens the limbs, and shields one from evil and lewdness, and lack of ghayrah kills the heart so that the limbs die, so that there remains not even shielding from [the minor things]. And the example of ghayrah in the heart is the example of the strength that shields one from sickness and fights it off, so if the strength leaves, he will be faced with the sickness, and will not find anything to protect himself from it, so it will establish itself [within him] and destroy him.” (Ibn Qayyim, Ad-Daa’ Wad-Dawaa’)[6]

Al-Mugheerah mentions that Saʿd ibn ʿUbaadah said: "If I find a man with my wife I will take this sword and smite his neck". And the Prophet said, "Are you amazed about Saʿd’s ghayrah?" He said: "By Allaah, I have more of this than Saʿd, and Allaah has more of it than me". (related in Sahih Bukhari)[14]

the Messenger of Allah said: "There is a kind of protective jealousy that Allah loves and a kind that Allah hates. As for that which Allah loves, it is protective jealousy when there are grounds for suspicion. And as for that which He hates, it is protective jealousy when there are no grounds for suspicion." (Sunan ibn Majah Book 9, Hadith 2074)

References
^ Seekers Hub: "The Protective Jealousy (Ghayra) of Spouses" January 18, 2012
^ Saudi gazette: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" May 15, 2015
^ World of islam Glossary: Gheera retrieved January 2, 2014
^ Islam QA Fatwa 49024: "He wants to look at women in the street with the intention of proposing marriage" retrieved February 12, 2014
^ Daniel Akbari and Paul Tetreault Honor Killing: A Professional's Guide to Sexual Relations and Ghayra Violence from the Islamic Sources Jan 8, 2015
^ a b c OnIslam: "Are Muslim Men Jealous or Selfish? - Selfish Jealousy Vs. Honorable Protectiveness" by Zainab bint Younus 10 February 2015
^ "The Trigger for ‘Honour Killing’ – Islamic cleric Said Rageah on Manhood, ‘ghirah’ or ‘jealousy’" by Tarek S. Fatah December 4, 2014
^ a b Islam QA Fatwa 101972: Ruling on honour killings retrieved December 2, 2014 |Even if we assume that she deserves to be executed (if she was previously-married and committed zina), no one should do that but the ruler.
^ OnIslam: "Husband’s Moderate Jealousy" retrieved February 12, 2015
^ a b Saudi Gazette: "Beauty, virtue and obligation of Hijab" 12 February 2015
^ University of Essex Islamic Society: "The Virtues of Hijab" retrieved February 12, 2015
^ IslamQA: Fatwa 8980: "Who is the one who should carry out the hadd punishment for zina?" retrieved February 12, 2015 | The family of the woman should prevent her from committing immoral actions and should prevent the things that lead to that, such as going out, speaking to non-mahram men, and everything that may enable her to commit evil. If the only way is to detain her and tie her up, then they have the right to do that, so they should detain her in the house. But as for killing her, they should not do that
^ Islam QA Fatwa 14305: It is essential to respond to those who defame the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) retrieved February 12, 2015 | If we leave the kuffaar and atheists to say whatever they want without denouncing it or punishing them, great mischief will result, which is something that these kuffaar love.... Whoever hears the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) being insulted and does not feel any honor or get angry is not a true believer – we seek refuge with Allah from humility, kufr and obeying the Shaytaan
^ Al BaSeerah: "My Family, My Home, My Jannah" by the Shaykh Abdullaah Al-Ghudyaan Mar-Apr 2009 ~ Rabi` al-Awwal-Rabi` ath-Thaanee 1430

All of this made me think. Is ghayrah a concept unique to Islam? Do we have something like ghayrah in Christianity? If so, have we, in the West, lost it? And how does this relate to the loss of modesty among women, a phenomenon I think we can all acknowledge? Do men bear a moral responsibility for the modesty of the women under their guardianship? If so, how do men rightly fulfill that responsibility?
 
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Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 09:27:09 PM »
What immediately comes to mind are all of the ways a person can participate in someone else's sin.  A father is committing mortal sin if he does not (at minimun) strongly object to his daughter or wife dressing immodestly.

I agree that men are primarily responsible for these problems.  Men are the guardians and if they neglect their duty then they are first at fault.  It's since become a runaway freight train of vice and depravity so the women are very guilty as well, but I think men are primarily in the wrong.  Speaking generalities here, need not anyone offer specific exceptions.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 10:16:56 PM »
Understanding ghayrah.

Gahyrah is the holy jealousy a man feels for his religion and his family. One of the most remarkable achievements of Islam. Something we all can learn from, especially in our day and age when men are nothing more than workers, providers or reproducers. Let us reclaim the rightful inheritance God has given us.


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Offline Gardener

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 11:17:53 PM »
This video goes into the concept from the Catholic perspective. It is not unique to Islam and goes back far before Mohammed.

 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 11:45:38 PM »
It is not unique to Islam and goes back far before Mohammed.

Of course. However, this sort of oft-repeated remark misses the point entirely on what Islamic theology is all about.

Islam never claimed to be original per se. Rather, it is the perfection and restoration of ancient practices that were commanded by God and his prophets. So it's natural that the concept of ghayrah predates Islam. The point is whether ghayrah is best preserved and practiced in Islam than everywhere else. And it seems it is, by leaps and bounds.
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 01:22:35 AM »
If you want Catholics to choose a religion on the basis of lived practice instead of the actual Truth of that belief system itself, then some of us would way prefer either the Amish or the Chasidic Jews -- both of whom practice modesty universally.  They are both far more palatable as belief systems than Islam is.

Technically speaking, nothing stops a Catholic family from the separatism and near-separatism practiced by the Amish and the Chasidic Jews, respectively. However, with the exception of contemplative orders, traditional Catholicism has never recommended formal separatism as a means of preserving virtues such as modesty and other forms of temperance and self-control.  Instead, the Catholic has always been commanded by the Church to live in the world but be not of it. It is not that Catholicism itself is a weak religion; it is that the majority of her practitioners are weak, given that they are indeed of the world.  Catholic laypeople have weak, ineffective, leaders  who are lukewarm and ambivalent about the faith.  That does not justify syncretism, apostasy, religious experimentation, or false ecumenism on the part of Catholic laypeople.  We cannot control how all or even most Catholics behave; we can only manage our own families and then associate with other Catholics who share our priorities.
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 03:35:39 AM »
Understanding ghayrah.

Gahyrah is the holy jealousy a man feels for his religion and his family. One of the most remarkable achievements of Islam. Something we all can learn from, especially in our day and age when men are nothing more than workers, providers or reproducers. Let us reclaim the rightful inheritance God has given us.


You still think he's posting Islam videos to help learn about Islam and not from Islam, eh Gardner?

Quote
Islam never claimed to be original per se. Rather, it is the perfection and restoration of ancient practices that were commanded by God and his prophets. So it's natural that the concept of ghayrah predates Islam.

Combine this with his call for us to "reclaim the rightful inheritance God has given us" and you have to be blind, deaf and dumb to not realise that he actually believes what he just wrote, namely, that Islam is "the perfection and restoration of ancient practices that were commanded by God and his prophets".

Quote
The point is whether ghayrah is best preserved and practiced in Islam than everywhere else. And it seems it is, by leaps and bounds.





 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 04:08:57 AM »

Thank you, Jesus, for rescuing us from the darkness of paganism.
 

Offline clau clau

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 09:13:30 AM »
"Flounder, flounder in the sea,
Come, I pray thee, here to me;
For my wife, good Ilsabil,
Wills not as I'd have her will."


https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_Household_Tales,_Volume_1/The_Fisherman_and_His_Wife
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Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 01:04:45 PM »

Thank you, Jesus, for rescuing us from the darkness of paganism.

Non sequitur.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 01:50:34 PM »
Well, Islam is a non sequitur to the absolute Truth of Jesus Christ and that Sacred Tradition which professes Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 

Quit trying to convince convicted traditional Catholics that Islam is superior to Catholicism, in any respect.  In no respect is it superior, because Catholic theology is based on Catholic philosophy, which states that all derives from the essence of something.  Hence the diligence with which faithful priests care for the souls of those charged to them. Hence the white martyrdom persecuted priests have suffered trying to remain true to the essence of the traditional Mass.  This living martyrdom is already bearing fruit within the Church, despite repeated efforts by the conciliar church to destroy Tradition in parishes and in the press.

The essence of Islam is categorically not the essence of Catholic tradition.
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 02:21:50 PM »

Thank you, Jesus, for rescuing us from the darkness of paganism.

Non sequitur.

Islam is pagan. Paganism is a darkness. Jesus rescued us from it. And Islamic honour killings definitely is connected to ghayrah , which is, according to you, best preserved and practised by it.  That's not even denied by Islam, which let's men off with a slap on the wrist for murder on its basis.

So I'm not following what you think doesn't follow, Abdul.

 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2019, 03:08:21 PM »
The essence of Islam is categorically not the essence of Catholic tradition.

Don't tell that to Vetus, of whom it now appears he regards Islam as just another expression of a perennial tradition. And if you can't see that, have another look at these Islam threads of his in conjunction with his "Remants of Monotheism" and posts on Julius Evola and Gornahoor.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2019, 03:13:50 PM »

Thank you, Jesus, for rescuing us from the darkness of paganism.

Non sequitur.

Islam is pagan. Paganism is a darkness. Jesus rescued us from it. And Islamic honour killings definitely is connected to ghayrah , which is, according to you, best preserved and practised by it.  That's not even denied by Islam, which let's men off with a slap on the wrist for murder on its basis.

So I'm not following what you think doesn't follow, Abdul.


Non sequitur again, since honour killings are not condoned by Islamic Law.
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Women lost their modesty when men lost their ghayrah.
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2019, 03:15:00 PM »
Well, Islam is a non sequitur to the absolute Truth of Jesus Christ and that Sacred Tradition which professes Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 

Quit trying to convince convicted traditional Catholics that Islam is superior to Catholicism, in any respect.

Fas est et ab hoste doceri.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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