Author Topic: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?  (Read 9581 times)

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2019, 01:28:19 PM »
Judaism is wrong but rational (i.e. if Jesus is not the Son of God then he must be an imposter)

Islam is irrational (a prophet who claims to be the Son of God but is not is a false prophet so why honour him).

According to Islam, Jesus never claimed to be God or the son of God. Rather, He was a mighty prophet of Israel. He and His mother are highly revered by the Muslims.

Their position is internally consistent since the Koran is the lens or the criterion by which everything is judged. The Scriptures in the NT that stress Christ's divinity are deemed to have been corrupted and not a part of His original teaching.

Just slightly correcting the record here.  There are various theories and positions about Our Lord Jesus Christ that are held by Jews.  Remember, first of all, that Judaism is not monolithic and is minimally dogmatic.  Setting aside trends that began with Rabbinic Judaism, the dogma exists as the Torah, but even the Commandments (especially the Fifth and what Catholics consider covered under the Sixth Commandment) are considered in Reform Judaism to be open to some variants of interpretation. 

I won't go into all the other variants and differentiations, but suffice it to say that Jews are uniform only in their belief that Jesus Christ was/is not divine.  Many Jews believe precisely what Muslims believe:  that He was a human being who was an inspired prophet within a respected lineage from the OT and Who did not claim divinity; others believe He was innocent of any deception but was deluded about His identity; still others believe He was an outright imposter and not a genuine Jew outwardly (and for the latter reason excluded as a Messiah); yet a fourth segment believes that however He showed allegiance to Jewish belief and practice, and however His martyrdom fulfilled OT predictions, the lack of peace in the world then and now "proves" He could not have been the genuine Messiah.

Some Jews among the various branches of Judaism also believe that the NT was corrupted in content, in interpretation, or both.

Continue.... :)
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2019, 04:07:24 PM »
And? I'm operating from within the truth of the Christian world view, in which there is no such "third category". It is irrelevant what Islam says of the ontology of djinn
I'm not interested in Islamic views of what "djinn" actually are but in the objective truth of what they actually are.

This sums up the matter quite well.

You're not really interested in engaging meaningfully with what Islam teaches about itself. This is plainly obvious. Fortunately, there are other Catholics who have realized by now that categorizing the whole religion of Muslims simply as a demonic enterprise does a disservice to truth and to the preaching of the Gospel. In fact, the spectacular failure of the Church in evangelizing Muslims down in history is partially explained by this attitude of contempt and ignorance.

my assertion is that the beings which Mohammed and Muslims call "djinn" are demonic, and some of these beings worship Allah.

This is simply a gratuitous assertion, typical of a polemicist.

And bizarre assertion since, if it were true, we'd have some demons worshipping Allah (the devil, according to you) and other demons refusing to worship Allah (the devil, according to you) and going on about harassing the lives of the Muslims.

The translation is entirely apt, and it cannot be any more or less "misleading" than is the use of "demon" for translating the Greek "daimon" when the classical Greek concept of the nature of the daimon, which corresponds rather closely with that of the djinn, was rather different from the modern Christian demon.

Shoebat's translation is obviously misleading because it uses the English word demons between brackets to categorize what the Jinn are. If confers a meaning that is alien to the Arabic text and to Islamic theology, since not all Jinn are evil and those who are don't worship Allah. It's not a translation: a translation remains faithful to the original text in letter and spirit. Shoebat's insertion of demons is nothing but a polemical jab.

Now go cry to your Imam.

You often sound like an angry 9 year old throwing a temper tantrum.

I'm not a convert like you, Kreuzritter, so tone it down.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 04:10:22 PM by Vetus Ordo »
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2019, 04:41:00 PM »
That has a context of tribal loyalty and political expedience in an age of constant warfare and living on the brink of extermination. The law also enshrined divorce, which is an evil. Nevertheless, Deuteronomy is a problematic text, particularly in the context of Josiah's reforms and Hilkiah magical "discovery" of a "Book of the Law", and the corruption of the Old Testament by Jewish scribes from the Second Temple period on is not a conjecture but an objectively demonstrable fact even alleged by the text itself. In any case, I do and will maintain that "othodox Judaism" at the time of the birth of Jesus was totally corrupt, a doctrine of sons of Satan, John 8:44-45.
And that is true. It's true regardless of what Yahweh did or did not command and what the Old Testament does or does not say.
None of which is equivalent to a demand of worship or death, especially in the case of the latter two, while the interpretation of the Sabbath commandment you're implying was clearly contradicted by Jesus Christ, a reality in harmony with Jeremiah 8:8.

Okay. Let me see if I understood you correctly. You're stating one of the following:

1. The Law of Moses, dictated by God, contains evil commandments;
2. Evil is tolerated therein for expedience' sake;
3. The text of the OT that has been cherished by the Christ, the Apostles and the Church as God's word, has been corrupted. We can't be entirely sure of the original contents of the Law.

It was an extermination of demonic infestation and Moloch worship upon Earth. And again, this is distinct from a being demanding worship or death. It is an act to stop the committign of great moral and metaphysical evil upon Earth. Nowhere did Yahweh demand that they bow and worship him or be killed. That is what the pagans of Babylon and Rome demanded of the Hebrews and Christians.

The Canaanites were not given the option of worshipping Yahweh or death. Their extermination was decreed right off the bat by God because they were idol-worshippers. In the Koran, the pagans are at least given an opportunity to repent and convert before facing the wrath of the scimitar. The spirit presiding both accounts, however, is similar: God is to be worshipped above all things. Those who refuse it and who confuse the terrestrial creation for the celestial truth face death.

For instance, Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, were struck dead on the spot by God because they didn't worship Him as He commanded. Clearly, God has a more stringent view of His holiness and His right to be worshipped than what you seem to give Him credit for.

None of this pertains to a being demanding worship or death, so I don't even need to get into it as a moral question. Next please.

Heretics, apostates, sorcerers, etc., were put to death precisely because they refused to worship Christ, either in toto, or as the Church commands. So yes, it's completely relevant.

As an essential consequence of rejecting God, not of a butthurt snowflake of a bloodthirsty dictator not getting his way.

The consequences are the same: either you turn to God in repentance and worship Him or you die. Except that in Islam, hell is intrinsically purgatorial so some people can get out of it.

Thankfully, my faith isn't based in a text but in a real enounter with the person of Jesus Christ, who is the farthest thing in the world from "Allah".

That's in the realm of phenomenology, so I won't delve into it.
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2019, 03:16:23 AM »
St. John Damascene: "As has been related, this Mohammed wrote many ridiculous books, to each one of which he set a title. For example, there is the book On Woman, [109] in which he plainly makes legal provision for taking four wives and, if it be possible, a thousand concubines—as many as one can maintain, besides the four wives. He also made it legal to put away whichever wife one might wish, and, should one so wish, to take to oneself another in the same way. Mohammed had a friend named Zeid. This man had a beautiful wife with whom Mohammed fell in love. Once, when they were sitting together, Mohammed said: ‘Oh, by the way, God has commanded me to take your wife.’ The other answered: ‘You are an apostle. Do as God has told you and take my wife.’ Rather—to tell the story over from the beginning—he said to him: ‘God has given me the command that you put away your wife.’ And he put her away. Then several days later: ‘Now,’ he said, ‘God has commanded me to take her.’ Then, after he had taken her and committed adultery with her, he made this law: ‘Let him who will put away his wife. And if, after having put her away, he should return to her, let another marry her. For it is not lawful to take her unless she have been married by another. Furthermore, if a brother puts away his wife, let his brother marry her, should he so wish.’ [110] In the same book he gives such precepts as this: ‘Work the land which God hath given thee and beautify it. And do this, and do it in such a manner” [111]—not to repeat all the obscene things that he did."

From: http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

Vetus Ordo: do you still believe Jesus Christ is our God and only Saviour, died on the Cross for our sins, and rose from the dead on the 3rd day? If so, you should denounce Mohammed as a wicked and lecherous man and a false prophet sent by hell to destroy Christianity. The Doctors of the Church have taught us this, and they are right. The man who invented the poison has the greatest guilt for it. Those unfortunate souls who drank his poison by believing his heresies against Jesus Christ, the Lord our God, are not so guilty but they are in the greatest danger of falling into hell by the hundreds of millions, and it is the greatest charity to acknowledge that Truth, and labor to deliver them from it. The Old Covenant was temporary, the New Covenant is Everlasting. The man who claims new public revelation superseding Jesus Christ is a heretic and a false prophet.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 03:18:39 AM by Xavier »
My Personal Motto in Life, that of St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe, founder of the Militia Immaculatae: "I want to be a Saint, and a great Saint". Make it your motto too.

"Dignáre, Dómine, die isto sine peccáto nos custodíre" (Deign, O Lord, to keep us this day without any sin). Please pray this prayer many times every day to end all sin.

St. Padre Pio: "I have made a pact with the Lord: I will take my place at the gate to paradise, but I shall not enter until I have seen the last of my spiritual children enter."

Come offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"I bless thy holy Name, I praise thine exalted privilege of being truly Mother of God, ever Virgin, conceived without stain of sin, Co-Redemptrix of the human race." [Indulgence of 100 Days, 22 January 1914] https://www.piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/heart_mary/mystery_coredemptrix_papal_magisterium.htm Pray, "Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us: http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2019, 03:58:46 PM »
If so, you should denounce Mohammed...

Anyone can denounce Muhammad and shout invectives at the founder of Islam. Any Tom, Dick and Harry can speak of the world's second largest religion as being diabolical and incompatible with the "values" of America or Europe. The fruits of this line of reasoning and action, though, are a redundant zero. Nil. Zilch. After so many centuries of evangelical failure when it comes to Islam, one would expect that this simplistic approach should have been dropped by now.

We need more serious study and more willful and honest engagement with the Muslim sources and the Islamic community in order to make any progress. Trying to move beyond the medieval and orientalist stereotypes of Muhammad is a good start.
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2019, 02:04:45 PM »
If so, you should denounce Mohammed...

Anyone can denounce Muhammad and shout invectives at the founder of Islam. Any Tom, Dick and Harry can speak of the world's second largest religion as being diabolical and incompatible with the "values" of America or Europe. The fruits of this line of reasoning and action, though, are a redundant zero. Nil. Zilch. After so many centuries of evangelical failure when it comes to Islam, one would expect that this simplistic approach should have been dropped by now.

We need more serious study and more willful and honest engagement with the Muslim sources and the Islamic community in order to make any progress. Trying to move beyond the medieval and orientalist stereotypes of Muhammad is a good start.

Surely not by kissing Qurans; praying in Mosques; singing Kumb-bay-ah, my Lord together; but by actually learning about it, correct?
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2019, 03:11:43 PM »
If so, you should denounce Mohammed...

Anyone can denounce Muhammad and shout invectives at the founder of Islam. Any Tom, Dick and Harry can speak of the world's second largest religion as being diabolical and incompatible with the "values" of America or Europe. The fruits of this line of reasoning and action, though, are a redundant zero. Nil. Zilch. After so many centuries of evangelical failure when it comes to Islam, one would expect that this simplistic approach should have been dropped by now.

We need more serious study and more willful and honest engagement with the Muslim sources and the Islamic community in order to make any progress. Trying to move beyond the medieval and orientalist stereotypes of Muhammad is a good start.

Surely not by kissing Qurans; praying in Mosques; singing Kumb-bay-ah, my Lord together; but by actually learning about it, correct?

You can start here:

An interesting and balanced lecture by American Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on the revelation and compilation of the Koran according to Islamic sources and theology.

DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline abc123

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2019, 04:13:46 PM »
If so, you should denounce Mohammed...

Anyone can denounce Muhammad and shout invectives at the founder of Islam. Any Tom, Dick and Harry can speak of the world's second largest religion as being diabolical and incompatible with the "values" of America or Europe. The fruits of this line of reasoning and action, though, are a redundant zero. Nil. Zilch. After so many centuries of evangelical failure when it comes to Islam, one would expect that this simplistic approach should have been dropped by now.

We need more serious study and more willful and honest engagement with the Muslim sources and the Islamic community in order to make any progress. Trying to move beyond the medieval and orientalist stereotypes of Muhammad is a good start.

If you haven't already I would recommend checking out the Acts17Apologetics YouTube channel.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2019, 04:21:51 PM »
If you haven't already I would recommend checking out the Acts17Apologetics YouTube channel.

Yes, I'm familiar with David Wood and Sam Shamoun's work. It's an interesting approach because they delve right into hadith sources but it's also highly polemical and more often than not extremely biased. His Islamicize Me series, for instance, was a teatrise in mockery which I find distasteful, misleading and counterproductive.

In terms of apologetics, I think James White's approach, with his now long history of debates with high-ranking Muslim apologists like Shabir Ally or Abdullah Kunde, to be much more serious, engaging and balanced, though.
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Offline abc123

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2019, 05:24:22 PM »
If you haven't already I would recommend checking out the Acts17Apologetics YouTube channel.

Yes, I'm familiar with David Wood and Sam Shamoun's work. It's an interesting approach because they delve right into hadith sources but it's also highly polemical and more often than not extremely biased. His Islamicize Me series, for instance, was a teatrise in mockery which I find distasteful, misleading and counterproductive.

In terms of apologetics, I think James White's approach, with his now long history of debates with high-ranking Muslim apologists like Shabir Ally or Abdullah Kunde, to be much more serious, engaging and balanced, though.

Though I found the Islamicize Me skits humorous at points I ultimately agree with your assessment to their approach overall. Speaking of James White, he also had rather sharp critiques of the series as well which turned into a bit of a kurfuffle.
 
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2019, 03:00:23 PM »
An interesting and balanced lecture by American Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on the revelation and compilation of the Koran according to Islamic sources and theology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICu3ITHnBoM

I enjoyed watching this presentation.  A nice digression on Heidegger, and this was the first I've heard that the lush concept of jannah is not supposed to be taken entirely literally: that the descriptions are a paradox, both true and yet only a manner of suggesting to the mortal mind what is incomprehensible.

Surely there is a literalist school on jannah that predominates, though.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2019, 03:29:59 PM »
An interesting and balanced lecture by American Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on the revelation and compilation of the Koran according to Islamic sources and theology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICu3ITHnBoM

I enjoyed watching this presentation.  A nice digression on Heidegger, and this was the first I've heard that the lush concept of jannah is not supposed to be taken entirely literally: that the descriptions are a paradox, both true and yet only a manner of suggesting to the mortal mind what is incomprehensible.

Surely there is a literalist school on jannah that predominates, though.

Yes, there have been both literal and allegorical interpretations of heaven. However, the allegorical readings aren't strictly modern by any stretch of the imagination. Al-Ghazali in the 11th century already stated that "this life belongs to the world of earth and the world of visibility; the hereafter belongs to the world of transcendental and the world of beings. By this life I understand your state before death, by hereafter I understand your state after death ... However, it is impossible to explain the world of beings in this life by any other means than allegories."

Islamic traditional theology is very rich and nuanced. Hamza Yusuf is actually a traditional Maliki scholar.

He lived and studied for years in the UAE, Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania. I posted this talk precisely because he's not a modernist sheikh. He represents a genuine trend of Islam and that's what you should focus your studies on when trying to deepen your knowledge of Sharia and Islamic spirituality.
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2019, 04:30:07 PM »
"Muhammad is a narcissist, a pedophile, a mass murderer, a terrorist, a misogynist, a lecher, a cult leader, a madman, a rapist, a torturer, an assassin and a looter." Quote from a former Muslim, Ali Sina, who offered $50,000 to anyone who could prove this wrong based on Islamic texts.  The reward has gone unclaimed" https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/muhammad/life-of-muhammad.aspx

"Terrorist attacks by Islamist extremists to further a perceived Islamist religious or political cause have occurred globally. The attackers have used such tactics as arson, vehicle rampage attacks, bomb threats, suicide attacks, bombings, spree shootings, stabbings, hijackings, kidnappings and beheadings." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

The blood of every Christian Martyr who continues to suffer under Islamist terrorism will cry out for judgment against those who knowingly and deliberately continue to make excuses for the False Prophet Mohammed who's prepared the way for Anti-Christ to come. He is of Anti-Christ, as St. John the Apostle says, who denies the Father and the Son. And the sect of Islamism does all that and more, for it blasphemes the Holy Trinity, attacks the Holy Cross of Christ, denies the Glorious Redemption that He alone has accomplished, and denies that Jesus Christ is our God and Saviour. It even completely rejects Baptism, Holy Mass and the Sacraments. And any person who teaches and glorifies polygamy, concubinage and sex slavery after Christ has so much elevated and sanctified Holy Matrimony is no Prophet at all but a lecherous man. Anyone who invents a false religion of hatred and of killing innocents in opposition to the religion of forgiving one's enemies that Jesus taught condemns himself.

Not even Vatican II says one good word about Mohammed, and WikiIslam has this on the wretch who who would make even modern pagans blush with his lawlessness and his sexual immorality, "The historian Al-Tabari calculated that Muhammad married a total of fifteen women, though only ever eleven at one time; and two of these marriages were never consummated.[2] This tally of fifteen does not include at least four concubines. According to Merriam-Webster, a concubine is “a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married”, and has a “social status in a household below that of a wife.”[3] All of Muhammad’s concubines were his slaves." https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Muhammads_Wives_and_Concubines

VetusOrdo, the idea that Mohammed is mercy for the world is a terrible blasphemy. One could more correctly say it rather seems to be God's judgment on an unbelieving world that did not want the Divine Mercy of His Son that such a false Prophet had to arise, as St. Peter would say - there have to be false prophets, so that those who are faithful in following the divine revelation that Jesus Christ has taught us, performing so many and such great miracles in the sight of all and throughout the history of His Church, may be distinguished, differentiated, and set apart, from deceived lost souls who follow heretics and false prophets to their own perdition. Jesus Christ wants to save our Muslim friends, but He will do that by delivering them from Islamism and from the shackles of this wicked man and his perfidious sect of apostasy that to this day persecutes Christians terribly.

St. John Damascene, Doctor of the Church, on Mohammedanism: "But when we ask: ‘And who is there to testify that God gave him the book? And which of the prophets foretold that such a prophet would rise up?’—they are at a loss. And we remark that Moses received the Law on Mount Sinai, with God appearing in the sight of all the people in cloud, and fire, and darkness, and storm. And we say that all the Prophets from Moses on down foretold the coming of Christ and how Christ God (and incarnate Son of God) was to come and to be crucified and die and rise again, and how He was to be the judge of the living and dead. Then, when we say: ‘How is it that this prophet of yours did not come in the same way, with others bearing witness to him? And how is it that God did not in your presence present this man with the book to which you refer, even as He gave the Law to Moses, with the people looking on and the mountain smoking, so that you, too, might have certainty?’ ...

“When we ask again: ‘How is it that when he enjoined us in this book of yours not to do anything or receive anything without witnesses, you did not ask him: “First do you show us by witnesses that you are a prophet and that you have come from God, and show us just what Scriptures there are that testify about you”’—they are ashamed and remain silent.” http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

St. Thomas, Angelic Doctor, on Islamism: "On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, The point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth.

On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning, Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Muhammad forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms." https://thomasofaquino.blogspot.com/2016/03/on-other-hand-those-who-founded-sects.html

St. John Bosco on Mohammed: Q. What is the difference between the Catholic Church and the Mohammedan one?

St. John Bosco: The difference is very great. Mohamed established his religion with violence and arms; Jesus Christ established His Church with words of peace using His poor disciples. Mohamed incited the passions; Jesus Christ commanded the denial of self.  Mohamed worked no miracles; Jesus Christ worked uncountable miracles in broad daylight and in the presence of countless  multitudes.  Mohamed’s doctrines are ridiculous, immoral and corrupting; Jesus Christ’s are august, sublime and pure. In Mohamed not even one prophecy was fulfilled; in Jesus Christ all were.
 
To sum up, the Christian Religion, in a certain way, renders man happy in this world so as to raise him up to the enjoyment of heaven; Mohamed degrades and dishonours human nature and by placing all happiness in sensual pleasures, reduces man to the level of filthy animals." http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/bosco.htm

One notable thing is how the Salesians of Don Bosco, despite the near collapse of Salesian vocations in the West, are overwhelmingly supporters of the failed Council, even Fr. Roberto Spataro SDB book on Latin and the Mass of Ages works from words of Francis on the joy of the Gospel (I suppose a priest in his role has to be prudent and it is said to be a fine book).

Anyhow, Mohammad was cunning warlord who created a perfect system for war and tyranny. A person can respect the achievements of Moslems, even where the immediate successors of Mohammad tore down the Roman-Persian dyarchy of the Middle and Near East, plus so much calligraphic and ceramic art, fine literature too, including even talented interpretation of the impoverish Quran, but Islam is frankly evil.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2019, 04:47:34 PM »
Pon, and anyone else who might be interested in this topic, here are two more lectures by Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on the Pillars of Islamic Practice.

Very informative talk. It follows the same format of the one I shared before.

Part 1:


Part 2:

DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline abc123

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2019, 06:51:21 PM »
Its unfortunate that Mark Hanson abandoned Christ who is the source of Life for Mohammad's delusion.

 
 
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