Author Topic: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?  (Read 3713 times)

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« on: June 17, 2019, 03:45:42 PM »
In surah Al-Anbiya ("The Prophets"), the 21st chapter of the Qur'an, verse 107, we read the following about Muhammad:

Wama arsalnaka illa rahmatan lil'alamina, "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds." In what sense was the Prophet of Islam a mercy to all creation, according to Islamic understanding?

Tabari, in his famous tafsir, quotes Ibn Abbas narration about this verse: "The more correct of the two opinions is that which was narrated from Ibn Abbas, which says that Allah sent His Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) as a mercy to all the world, both believers and disbelievers. As for the believers, Allah guided them through him and caused them, through their belief in him and their acting upon what he brought from Allah, to enter Paradise. As for the disbelievers, by virtue of him He warded off from them the hastening of the punishment that came upon the nations who disbelieved in their Messengers before him."

He continues: "There is no doubt that, although the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did not kill anyone with his own hand except this wretch [n.b. Ubay ibn Khalaf at the battle of Uhud] he is the one who prescribed and enjoined jihad and urged the Muslims to go out on jihad. There is no contradiction between the fact that he prescribed and enjoined jihad and killed that wretch or anyone else, and the words of Allah, may He be exalted, 'And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the worlds' (21:107), because Allah, may He be exalted, only sent him to bring people forth from darkness to light, and to guide them to His straight path. He prescribed for him jihad for His sake and to fight His enemies who wanted to extinguish the light of Allah and spread mischief on earth."

Traditionally, Muhammad has been viewed with utmost hostility by the Christian world. His character, even today, is subject to the most extreme forms of maledicency. From all the figures of history, he seems to be universally the most maligned in Western historiography. We all know the typical accusations: from pagan God and devil to a simple war-mongerer, child molester, fraud, etc. Only in the past century have some of these ideas been challenged.
 
William Montgomery Watt, a famous Orientalist and Anglican priest, in his book about early Islam entitled Muhammad at Medina, writes the following:

Quote
Of all the world's greatest men none has been so much maligned as Muhammad. It is easy to see how this has come about. For centuries Islam was the great enemy of Christendom, for Christendom was in direct contact with no other organized states comparable in power to the Muslims. The Byzantine empire, after losing its provinces in Syria and Egypt, was being attacked in Asia Minor, while Western Europe was threatened through Spain and Sicily. Even before the Crusades focused attention on the expulsion of the Saracens from the Holy Land, medieval war-propaganda, free from the restraints of factuality was building up a conception of 'the great enemy'. At one point Muhammad was transformed into Mahound, the prince of darkness. By the eleventh century the idea about Islam and Muslims current in the crusading armies were such travesties that they had a bad effect on morale. The crusaders had been led to expect the worst of their enemies, and, when they found many chivalrous knights among them, they were filled with distrust for the authorities of their own religion.

More interestingly even, he concludes regarding the moral accusations levelled against him by Western historians and Christian missionaries:

Quote
The other main allegations of moral defect in Muhammad are that he was treacherous and lustful . . . Sufficient has been said above about the interpretation of these events to show that the case against Muhammad is much weaker than is sometimes thought. The discussions of these allegations, however, raises a fundamental question. How are we to judge Muhammad?  By the standards of his own time and country?  Or by those of the most enlightened opinion in the West today?  When the sources are closely scrutinized, it is clear that those of Muhammad's actions which are disapproved by the modern West were not the object of the moral criticism of his contemporaries. They criticized some of his acts, but their motives were superstitious prejudice or fear of the consequences.  If they criticized the events at Nakhlah, it was because they feared some punishment from the offended pagan gods or the worldly vengeance of the Meccans.  If they were amazed at the mass execution of the Jews of the clan of Qurayzah, it was at the number and danger of the blood-feuds incurred. The marriage with Zaynab seemed incestuous, but this conception of incest was bound up with old practices belonging to a lower, communalistic level of familial institutions where a child's paternity was not definitely known; and this lower level was in process being eliminated by Islam . . . From the standpoint of Muhammad's time, then, the allegations of treachery and sensuality cannot be maintained.  His contemporaries did not find him morally defective in any way. On the contrary, some of the acts criticized by the modern Westerner show that Muhammad's standards were higher than those of his time.  In his day and generation he was a social reformer, even a reformer in the sphere of morals. He created a new system of social security and a new family structure, both of which were a vast improvement on what went before. By taking what was best in the morality of the nomad and adapting it for settled communities, he established a religious and social framework for the life of many races of men. That is not the work of a traitor or an old lecher.

Thomas Carlyle, in his famous work On Heroes, Hero-Worship, and The Heroic in History, has to following refreshing admission:

Quote
Our current hypothesis about Mahomet, that he was a scheming Imposter, a Falsehood incarnate, that his religion is a mere mass of quackery and fatuity, begins really to be now untenable to any one. The lies, which well-meaning zeal has heaped around this man, are disgraceful to ourselves only. When Pococke inquires of Grotius, where the proof was of that story of the pigeon, trained to pick peas from Mahomet's ear, and pass for an angel dictating to him? Grotius answered that there was no proof! It is really time to dismiss all that.

Vatican II has definitely inaugurated a new era in Catholic-Muslim relations and dialogue. As we deepen our understanding of Islam and the person of Muhammad in a climate of peace and scholarly dialogue, will we finally reach a more balanced view of one of the most important men to have ever walked the planet?
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Offline ChristusRex

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2019, 10:52:12 PM »
When do you think you’ll convert to Mohammedanism?
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2019, 12:14:26 AM »
"Muhammad is a narcissist, a pedophile, a mass murderer, a terrorist, a misogynist, a lecher, a cult leader, a madman, a rapist, a torturer, an assassin and a looter." Quote from a former Muslim, Ali Sina, who offered $50,000 to anyone who could prove this wrong based on Islamic texts.  The reward has gone unclaimed" https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/muhammad/life-of-muhammad.aspx

"Terrorist attacks by Islamist extremists to further a perceived Islamist religious or political cause have occurred globally. The attackers have used such tactics as arson, vehicle rampage attacks, bomb threats, suicide attacks, bombings, spree shootings, stabbings, hijackings, kidnappings and beheadings." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

The blood of every Christian Martyr who continues to suffer under Islamist terrorism will cry out for judgment against those who knowingly and deliberately continue to make excuses for the False Prophet Mohammed who's prepared the way for Anti-Christ to come. He is of Anti-Christ, as St. John the Apostle says, who denies the Father and the Son. And the sect of Islamism does all that and more, for it blasphemes the Holy Trinity, attacks the Holy Cross of Christ, denies the Glorious Redemption that He alone has accomplished, and denies that Jesus Christ is our God and Saviour. It even completely rejects Baptism, Holy Mass and the Sacraments. And any person who teaches and glorifies polygamy, concubinage and sex slavery after Christ has so much elevated and sanctified Holy Matrimony is no Prophet at all but a lecherous man. Anyone who invents a false religion of hatred and of killing innocents in opposition to the religion of forgiving one's enemies that Jesus taught condemns himself.

Not even Vatican II says one good word about Mohammed, and WikiIslam has this on the wretch who who would make even modern pagans blush with his lawlessness and his sexual immorality, "The historian Al-Tabari calculated that Muhammad married a total of fifteen women, though only ever eleven at one time; and two of these marriages were never consummated.[2] This tally of fifteen does not include at least four concubines. According to Merriam-Webster, a concubine is “a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married”, and has a “social status in a household below that of a wife.”[3] All of Muhammad’s concubines were his slaves." https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Muhammads_Wives_and_Concubines

VetusOrdo, the idea that Mohammed is mercy for the world is a terrible blasphemy. One could more correctly say it rather seems to be God's judgment on an unbelieving world that did not want the Divine Mercy of His Son that such a false Prophet had to arise, as St. Peter would say - there have to be false prophets, so that those who are faithful in following the divine revelation that Jesus Christ has taught us, performing so many and such great miracles in the sight of all and throughout the history of His Church, may be distinguished, differentiated, and set apart, from deceived lost souls who follow heretics and false prophets to their own perdition. Jesus Christ wants to save our Muslim friends, but He will do that by delivering them from Islamism and from the shackles of this wicked man and his perfidious sect of apostasy that to this day persecutes Christians terribly.

St. John Damascene, Doctor of the Church, on Mohammedanism: "But when we ask: ‘And who is there to testify that God gave him the book? And which of the prophets foretold that such a prophet would rise up?’—they are at a loss. And we remark that Moses received the Law on Mount Sinai, with God appearing in the sight of all the people in cloud, and fire, and darkness, and storm. And we say that all the Prophets from Moses on down foretold the coming of Christ and how Christ God (and incarnate Son of God) was to come and to be crucified and die and rise again, and how He was to be the judge of the living and dead. Then, when we say: ‘How is it that this prophet of yours did not come in the same way, with others bearing witness to him? And how is it that God did not in your presence present this man with the book to which you refer, even as He gave the Law to Moses, with the people looking on and the mountain smoking, so that you, too, might have certainty?’ ...

“When we ask again: ‘How is it that when he enjoined us in this book of yours not to do anything or receive anything without witnesses, you did not ask him: “First do you show us by witnesses that you are a prophet and that you have come from God, and show us just what Scriptures there are that testify about you”’—they are ashamed and remain silent.” http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

St. Thomas, Angelic Doctor, on Islamism: "On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, The point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth.

On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning, Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Muhammad forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms." https://thomasofaquino.blogspot.com/2016/03/on-other-hand-those-who-founded-sects.html

St. John Bosco on Mohammed: Q. What is the difference between the Catholic Church and the Mohammedan one?

St. John Bosco: The difference is very great. Mohamed established his religion with violence and arms; Jesus Christ established His Church with words of peace using His poor disciples. Mohamed incited the passions; Jesus Christ commanded the denial of self.  Mohamed worked no miracles; Jesus Christ worked uncountable miracles in broad daylight and in the presence of countless  multitudes.  Mohamed’s doctrines are ridiculous, immoral and corrupting; Jesus Christ’s are august, sublime and pure. In Mohamed not even one prophecy was fulfilled; in Jesus Christ all were.
 
To sum up, the Christian Religion, in a certain way, renders man happy in this world so as to raise him up to the enjoyment of heaven; Mohamed degrades and dishonours human nature and by placing all happiness in sensual pleasures, reduces man to the level of filthy animals." http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/bosco.htm
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 01:37:48 AM by Xavier »
Please Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart daily, especially in the Sacred Month of August: Do never secede for any pretended reason from the Pope and the Bishops, and pray and work for the Pope and the Bishops to Consecrate Russia one day, as they infallibly will quite soon. Consecrate Russia yourself in Communion and in Union with the Pope and Bishops. Please consecrate aborted babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Please also offer the Precious Blood of Jesus' Heart to the Eternal Father, and our Lives in Sacrifice in Union with It, and with Mary's Immaculate Heart, that Jerusalem may be saved, Judah be restored, and the Jews may at long last happily be returned to saving Faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2019, 12:50:24 AM »
Vetus, when you play EU4, I swear, if you have ever unironically picked Kebab and not converted to Orthodoxy, Coptic, Catholic, or Catholic and then Protestant / Reformed, I have lost any inkling of respect for you. You also have better not culture-converted the Greeks and Armenians to Kebabi.

At least play as QQ or Mamluks, or just Oman.
 

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2019, 12:51:21 AM »
In all seriousness,
 

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2019, 01:35:18 AM »
Islam has been foundational in terms of Middle Eastern culture for more than one and half millenia, and the developments in terms of Islamic theology I find really fascinating. For instance, in Sunni Islam, the debate as to whether or not the Quran is uncreated or created, or the ideas that have been permeating within the Sufi school of Islamic thought, including it's ideas of Origenism or the ideas of the world existing as in God's mind.

While also being by and large an iconoclastic religion (one could actually argue that the iconoclastic persecution during the end of the first millenia in Christianity was started from Islamic influence), it has also led to many unique works of art that have been produced.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about wanting to learn about the belief system that has guided several cultures for more than a millenia and a half.

Now, with that said, Vetus, I have brought up my oppositions to Islam before, but I'll bring them up again; for one, so much of Islamic praxis does not, in fact, come from Islam itself, but comes from a combination of Byzantine and Alexandrian Christianity, as well as Judaism. The Burka can actually be found in Clement of Alexandria in his suggestions of modesty, where he argues women need to be clothed completely except for their eyes. Islamic chant has clear origins in Middle Eastern Christian chant, which can be compared to this day in the Alexandrian and Antiochian Byzantine, Oriental, and Assyrian Rites; even the way that Mosques are designed have clear origins from Middle Eastern Church architecture, with some famous Mosques even appearing in the shape of a cross. Prostrations are huge in Byzantine Christianity; if one attends a Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Presanctified Liturgy of Saint Gregory the Great, you will wonder if you wandered into a Mosque with how many people prostrate in rapid succession (I got sweaty during my first Presanctified service), not to mention the interval prayers which have clear origins in Christian liturgical praxis. Finally, as in an argument that Saint John of Damascus brings up, who worked for an Islamic government, while Islam mandates some parts of the Old Covenant, like circumcision, they blatantly ignore other rules and regulations within the Old Covenant, like the requirements of the Aaronite Priesthood.

For two, the Theistic worldview of Islam doesn't make much sense to me. For Islam, what was the point of God having picked the Israelites as His chosen people? Did God ever indicate He would abandon them for the Ishmaelites? Why has God switched from the Israelites to the Ishmaelites? Why does God favor some people He creates over others? At least in Christianity it can be argued that the point of it all was to have a people that would be the light to the nations, with that light being the root in which Christ comes forth from, and in which the Church can truly be Catholic by having Saints from Pentecost onward. What ever happened to the very clear Messianic Prophecy which can be found as incomplete in Judaism, but complete in Christianity? Going back on Saint John of Damascus's argument, why did God abolish certain precepts, but allow others?

For three, I don't find Muhammad or his narrative very convincing. First of all, he already proved himself as not legitimate when he argued that three pagan deities were actually angels, but then "oops, Satan was whispering into my ear." Second of all, while arguing to be a Prophet of Peace, he nonetheless - like Joseph Smith - used force and political pressure to disseminate his ides. Third of all, I find the argument that Christianity apostasized within the first moments of Jesus's death not convincing, considering that the people who actually knew Jesus for a couple of years helped establish the Church - I also don't get why Jesus would have disciples sent out to establish organize communities when they would just apostatize immediately; why would God do that? Fourth of all, it seems weird that although Jesus was a Prophet, he nonetheless taught things that Muhammad would disagree with, such as divorce, polygamy, drinking, being allowed to deny God to save your life, etc.

For four, overall, I find the morality of Christianity way more fulfilling and in tune with what human nature demands than Islam. In Christianity, there is a genius balance where while the law and rules and regulations are  important and shouldn't be denied, nonetheless intrinsic human morality holds precedent to it. In Islam, you will find an unabashed legalism as the Pharisees taught; I've actually talked to a person online who lives in Saudi Arabia who tried worshiping Pagan deities in order to achieve short-term goals of manipulation and power, only for these Pagan deities to harass him in his dreams in nightmarish forms with extreme hostility towards the worship of the Abrahamic God; when he went to a member of the Islamic clergy to tell him one on one with his struggles, the man in question was extremely offended, shocked, and disgusted with what he did, and threatened to report him to the authorities. This is in stark contrast to say something you would find in Christianity, like Confession.


Now, to actually answer your question.

No.

I don't think that the kind of Ecumenical dialogue that Vatican II has paved way will answer anything or create an enlightenment among the Catholic populace; I can tell you that despite the heavy Ecumenism of the Catholic Church with Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholics remain in the dark about Eastern Orthodoxy, with many not knowing it even exists, while others being completely ignorant to it; Pope Francis is certainly ignorant of it and how conservative and strict the Eastern Orthodox laity and clergy can be, judging from his recent comments from his latest trip. I bet most Catholics don't know about Hesychasm, or Mount Athos, or the Jesus Prayer, or icons, or Ad-Orientem Liturgy, or leavened bread, or the fact that Priests can get married. The only thing that they do know about Orthodoxy - if they know it exists at all - is that it's wrong because it allows divorce and contraception, because that argument has been repeated like a Hindu mantra.

Now, that is Eastern Orthodoxy - the religion that, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is the closest religion to Catholicism. How do you think that Ecumenism will help people learn about Islam in terms of its liturgical praxis, its mysticism, its theology, its history?

Ecumenism, while being active for 60 years, has not spread an enlightenment throughout the Catholic Church. It instead has only brought indifference and ignorance, and a John Lennon intellectual level of understandings of the differences of the worlds religions in terms of philosophy, outlook, and culture; where all the religions are more or less the same and they all preach peace, love, and rock and roll.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 01:39:16 AM by TheReturnofLive »
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2019, 01:45:58 AM »
Whatever "ecumenism" means (it's an amorphous term that's not clearly defined, but a possible meaning could be "Restoration of Unity among Christians" - one, indeed, suggested by the Title Unitatis Redeintegratio), ecumenism is among those who (1) Have been validly baptized in the Name of the Holy Trinity (2) believe at least in the Triune God, and confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

This is what UR states: "Everywhere large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day the movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. This movement toward unity is called "ecumenical." Those belong to it who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, doing this not merely as individuals but also as corporate bodies. For almost everyone regards the body in which he has heard the Gospel as his Church and indeed, God's Church. All however, though in different ways, long for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and set forth into the world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God ... 12. Before the whole world let all Christians confess their faith in the Triune God, One and Three, in the incarnate Son of God, our Redeemer and Lord. United in their efforts, and with mutual respect, let them bear witness to our common hope which does not play us false. In these days when cooperation in social matters is so widespread, all men without exception are called to work together, with much greater reason all those who believe in God, but most of all, all Christians in that they bear the name of Christ. Cooperation among Christians vividly expresses the relationship which in fact already unites them, and it sets in clearer relief the features of Christ the Servant. This cooperation, which has already begun in many countries, should be developed more and more, particularly in regions where a social and technical evolution is taking place be it in a just evaluation of the dignity of the human person, the establishment of the blessings of peace, the application of Gospel principles to social life, the advancement of the arts and sciences in a truly Christian spirit, or also in the use of various remedies to relieve the afflictions of our times such as famine and natural disasters, illiteracy and poverty, housing shortage and the unequal distribution of wealth. All believers in Christ can, through this cooperation, be led to acquire a better knowledge and appreciation of one another, and so pave the way to Christian unity."

I prefer the Catholic Encyclopedia's way of putting it: "The Catholic Church is by far the largest, the most widespread, and the most ancient of Christian communions in the world, and is moreover the mighty trunk from which the other communions claiming to be Christian have broken off at one time or another. If, then, we limit the application of the term Christendom to this, its most authentic expression, the unity of Christendom is not a lost ideal to be recovered, but a stupendous reality which has always been in stable possession. For not only has this Catholic Church ever taught that unity is an essential note of the true Church of Christ, but throughout her long history she has been, to the amazement of the world, distinguished by the most conspicuous unity of faith and government, and this notwithstanding that she has at all times embraced within her fold nationalities of the most different temperaments, and has had to contend with incessant oscillations of mental speculation and political power. Still, in another and broader sense of the term, which is also the more usual and is followed in the present article, Christendom includes not merely the Catholic Church, but, together with it, the many other religious communions which have either directly or indirectly, separated from it, and yet, although in conflict both with it and among themselves as to various points of doctrine and practice agree with it in this: that they look up to our Lord Jesus Christ as the Founder of their Faith, and claim to make His teaching the rule of their lives. As these separated communities when massed together, indeed in some cases even of themselves, count a vast number of souls, among whom many are conspicuous for their religious earnestness, this extension of the term Christendom to include them all has its solid justification. On the other hand, if it is accepted, it becomes no longer possible to speak of the unity of Christendom but rather of a Christendom torn by divisions and offering the saddest spectacle to the eyes. And then the question arises: Is this scandal always to continue? The Holy See has never tired of appealing in season and out of season for its removal but without meeting with much response from a world which had learnt to live contentedly within its sectarian enclosures. Happily a new spirit has lately come over these dissentient Christians, numbers of whom are becoming keenly sensitive to the paralyzing effects of division and an active reunion movement has arisen which, If far from being as widespread and solid as one could wish, is at least cherished on all sides by devout minds."

Muslims are also loved by God, and called by Him to salvation, but through faith and knowledge of Jesus Christ, loving and recognizing Him as God, and through Holy Baptism in the Name of the Triune God.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 01:56:09 AM by Xavier »
Please Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart daily, especially in the Sacred Month of August: Do never secede for any pretended reason from the Pope and the Bishops, and pray and work for the Pope and the Bishops to Consecrate Russia one day, as they infallibly will quite soon. Consecrate Russia yourself in Communion and in Union with the Pope and Bishops. Please consecrate aborted babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Please also offer the Precious Blood of Jesus' Heart to the Eternal Father, and our Lives in Sacrifice in Union with It, and with Mary's Immaculate Heart, that Jerusalem may be saved, Judah be restored, and the Jews may at long last happily be returned to saving Faith in Jesus Christ.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2019, 06:24:44 PM »
Vetus, when you play EU4, I swear, if you have ever unironically picked Kebab and not converted to Orthodoxy, Coptic, Catholic, or Catholic and then Protestant / Reformed, I have lost any inkling of respect for you. You also have better not culture-converted the Greeks and Armenians to Kebabi.

When I have the honour of playing with the Sublime Porte, I do my best to bring the light of Islam and the love of the Prophet, s.a.w., into the very heart of Europe.

Something along these lines:

DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Chestertonian

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2019, 07:44:17 PM »
They didn't seem very merciful to the church in Mosul.  You could say that those Muslims were "radicalized" but entire countries embrace this.  I will never understand why American liberals pay more attention to "mansplaining" "manspreading" or whatever they're complaining about, yet little girls in many Muslim countries still can't obtain a basic education and they throw acid on rape victims, then there's the polygamy, the gay underbelly in a lot of Muslim countries. 
"I am not much of a Crusader, that is for sure, but at least I am not a Mohamedist!"
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 07:49:44 PM »
Thank you for your thoughtful post, Live. I'll try to exchange some ideas on the points you raised.

for one, so much of Islamic praxis does not, in fact, come from Islam itself, but comes from a combination of Byzantine and Alexandrian Christianity, as well as Judaism. The Burka can actually be found in Clement of Alexandria in his suggestions of modesty, where he argues women need to be clothed completely except for their eyes. Islamic chant has clear origins in Middle Eastern Christian chant, which can be compared to this day in the Alexandrian and Antiochian Byzantine, Oriental, and Assyrian Rites; even the way that Mosques are designed have clear origins from Middle Eastern Church architecture, with some famous Mosques even appearing in the shape of a cross. Prostrations are huge in Byzantine Christianity; if one attends a Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Presanctified Liturgy of Saint Gregory the Great, you will wonder if you wandered into a Mosque with how many people prostrate in rapid succession (I got sweaty during my first Presanctified service), not to mention the interval prayers which have clear origins in Christian liturgical praxis. Finally, as in an argument that Saint John of Damascus brings up, who worked for an Islamic government, while Islam mandates some parts of the Old Covenant, like circumcision, they blatantly ignore other rules and regulations within the Old Covenant, like the requirements of the Aaronite Priesthood.

Since Islam claims to be the perfection and divine correction of the revelations that preceded it in history, it is no wonder that it incorporates some practices that are found in religions that came before it. I don't think plagiarism per se can be successfully leveled against Islam given the context of its own claims. That it took some things from Judaism, for instance, while ignoring others, is no more an argument against Islam as it is against Christianity that also abandoned the Mosaic Law while keeping the OT scriptures. Both religions have different claims and reasons to have done so (Christianity because Christ fulfilled the Law; Islam because the Law as it is found in the Torah has been corrupted by the Jews and the Rabbis themselves) but each one is logically defensible in itself.

For two, the Theistic worldview of Islam doesn't make much sense to me. For Islam, what was the point of God having picked the Israelites as His chosen people? Did God ever indicate He would abandon them for the Ishmaelites? Why has God switched from the Israelites to the Ishmaelites? Why does God favor some people He creates over others? At least in Christianity it can be argued that the point of it all was to have a people that would be the light to the nations, with that light being the root in which Christ comes forth from, and in which the Church can truly be Catholic by having Saints from Pentecost onward. What ever happened to the very clear Messianic Prophecy which can be found as incomplete in Judaism, but complete in Christianity? Going back on Saint John of Damascus's argument, why did God abolish certain precepts, but allow others?

The favor of God towards the Jewish people in Islam does not display the same messianic context that we have in the Bible. They're merely a subset of the Abrahamic and Noachide prophetic missions which were destined to all men on earth.

This koranic exegesis might interest you: Tafsir of Surat al-Baqarah (2:122-129)

For three, I don't find Muhammad or his narrative very convincing. First of all, he already proved himself as not legitimate when he argued that three pagan deities were actually angels, but then "oops, Satan was whispering into my ear." Second of all, while arguing to be a Prophet of Peace, he nonetheless - like Joseph Smith - used force and political pressure to disseminate his ides. Third of all, I find the argument that Christianity apostasized within the first moments of Jesus's death not convincing, considering that the people who actually knew Jesus for a couple of years helped establish the Church - I also don't get why Jesus would have disciples sent out to establish organize communities when they would just apostatize immediately; why would God do that? Fourth of all, it seems weird that although Jesus was a Prophet, he nonetheless taught things that Muhammad would disagree with, such as divorce, polygamy, drinking, being allowed to deny God to save your life, etc.

As regards to the episode you described, related by Al-Tabari and Ibn Sa'd and popularized in the West by Salman Rushdie's famous novel The Satanic Verses, it bears mentioning that its factual historicity has been rejected by all exegetes. Some orientalists without an axe to grind, like John Burton, plainly admit it: There existed therefore a compelling theoretical motive for the invention of these infamous hadiths. If it be felt that this has now been demonstrated, there should be no further difficulty in suggesting that those hadiths have no historical basis. ("Those Are The High-Flying Cranes", Journal Of Semitic Studies). The fact that this story was recorded in their works does not prove that the story itself is historically true, neither do these sources claim it. In fact, the episode is so absurd that it runs contrary to the historical information we have on Muhammad and the way he spread his religion.

As for Islam not squaring with the New Testament, this is to be expect by Islamic standards. All previous revelations have been tampered with over time, so there can't be an exact correspondence. The Koran, miraculous in its nature, is the criterion by which everything in the past (and present) is judged. While there is no unanimous agreement in Islam to explain the facts of early Christianity that I'm aware of, it is generally assumed that the message was only corrupted later on and the the extant copies of the NT that we have today cannot be fully trusted.

For four, overall, I find the morality of Christianity way more fulfilling and in tune with what human nature demands than Islam. In Christianity, there is a genius balance where while the law and rules and regulations are important and shouldn't be denied, nonetheless intrinsic human morality holds precedent to it. In Islam, you will find an unabashed legalism as the Pharisees taught; I've actually talked to a person online who lives in Saudi Arabia who tried worshiping Pagan deities in order to achieve short-term goals of manipulation and power, only for these Pagan deities to harass him in his dreams in nightmarish forms with extreme hostility towards the worship of the Abrahamic God; when he went to a member of the Islamic clergy to tell him one on one with his struggles, the man in question was extremely offended, shocked, and disgusted with what he did, and threatened to report him to the authorities. This is in stark contrast to say something you would find in Christianity, like Confession.


Christianity was known to harass and kill heretics and apostates for centuries. So did the OT religion of the Hebrews. That an apostate today wouldn't be killed in Western Christianity only proves that the Church lost temporal power and gave in to Enlightenment demands, nothing more.

Islam is a holistic system that does not have the same concept of law and grace that Christianity does. Nevertheless, I'd submit that its spirit is as Semitic and Abrahamic as anything that preceded it, while not encountering the traditional difficulties that the Church has had in trying to harmonize the OT with the NT.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 08:51:19 PM »
So, are you now a Muslim, Vetus Ordo?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2019, 09:34:15 PM »
When do you think you’ll convert to Mohammedanism?
So, are you now a Muslim, Vetus Ordo?

I've been a student of Islam and Muslim History since 2005.

That's all.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 09:59:28 PM »
When do you think you’ll convert to Mohammedanism?
So, are you now a Muslim, Vetus Ordo?

I've been a student of Islam and Muslim History since 2005.

That's all.

OK. But it appears that it is bleeding into a reverence and premiere Weltanschauung for you.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 11:40:08 PM »
Vetus, when you play EU4, I swear, if you have ever unironically picked Kebab and not converted to Orthodoxy, Coptic, Catholic, or Catholic and then Protestant / Reformed, I have lost any inkling of respect for you. You also have better not culture-converted the Greeks and Armenians to Kebabi.

When I have the honour of playing with the Sublime Porte, I do my best to bring the light of Islam and the love of the Prophet, s.a.w., into the very heart of Europe.

Something along these lines:



sadhfwoqieurfhaljn

I knew it; for some reason I knew it. You are a traitor to the HRE, you barbarian scum!

Although, if that's a legit run, that's pretty dang good. Even though I love EU4, I suck at it.

But I'm kind of disgusted that you just completely ignored the No CB Ireland strat, and instead attacked England directly.
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2019, 11:34:37 AM »
Does it come as any surprise that a man who embraces Vatican II, pushes evolutionism, embraces Biblical criticism and casts aspersions upon Genesis is also a bona fide Islamophile?

Ecumenism with what is possibly the single-most explicitly anti-Christ religion? Really? Because they claim "Allah" was Abraham's God? I have more in common with just about any other world religion I can think of.