Author Topic: The Case for the Soul  (Read 625 times)

Offline Vetus Ordo

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The Case for the Soul
« on: April 01, 2019, 03:05:52 PM »
The Case for the Soul

Is there any scientific evidence for the soul? Are you nothing but matter? These videos address this topic.


1. Neuroscience:


2. Refuting Physicalist objections:


3. Quantum Biology:

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Offline Maximilian

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 01:16:25 PM »
These videos are really good. Definitely worth watching. Thanks for posting.

An awful lot of food for thought.
 
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2019, 04:43:56 PM »
These videos are really good. Definitely worth watching. Thanks for posting.

An awful lot of food for thought.

Have you watched any so far?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2019, 08:00:06 PM »
These videos are really good. Definitely worth watching. Thanks for posting.

An awful lot of food for thought.

Have you watched any so far?

Yes, all three.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2019, 03:38:39 PM »
These videos are really good. Definitely worth watching. Thanks for posting.

An awful lot of food for thought.

Have you watched any so far?

Yes, all three.

What's your take on it?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline james03

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2019, 04:10:09 PM »
Excellent videos.  Watch them until you get it.

I had a podcast awhile back which is somewhat related to the last video.  There is an objection called the "interface problem" which asks how an immaterial soul can move an arm, for example.  I pointed out that this was in reality an problem for a heathen scientist since they have failed to show how immaterial charge and immaterial force can move mass.  In fact, I believe it is correct to say they will never explain that.  However an immaterial mind affecting an immaterial "field" seems plausible.  So once we understand physically what a field is and what it is doing, then we can solve the interface problem.  I'm waiting on the heathens to get back to me.

Other points, I think the ability of the mind to read neural pathways to be easier to accept than the ability of the mind to change neural pathways (interface problem).

Finally, we get into the physics problem.  What exactly is mass?  We have to swallow the bizarre concepts of Quantum theory it appears.  It seems like we are at a point to bring the philosophers back into the discussion to develop new tools to think about things.  Quantum theory is suffering from that.  Greek Realism came first, and gave us the tools to work on classical physics.  We now see the deficit of philosophy not being consulted to give us tools to work with Quantum theory.

Final point, I like his idea of quantum collapse in explaining how our brains are utilizing quantum computing.  It's pretty cool.
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2019, 05:25:40 PM »
These videos are really good. Definitely worth watching. Thanks for posting.

An awful lot of food for thought.

Have you watched any so far?

Yes, all three.

What's your take on it?

It pulls together current knowledge to blow out of the water the Englightenment-era "divine watchmaker" view. Reality is infinitely more complex than we can begin to imagine. We have only begun to scratch the surface of understanding.

All we can do is marvel at the wonder of God's infinite creation. That is what men like King David did back in the early days of the human race, and it is what men continue to do today whenever they begin "to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth of the fulness of God which surpasseth all knowledge."

Idealism and realism are like two faces of the same coin. But which is the head and which is the tail? We have made realism into the head, and that is a fatal mistake.

Science demonstrates to us that what seems like substantial reality is actually founded upon what Einstein called "spooky action at a distance." The solid facade masks profound mystery, even in the most ordinary things of life. What seems real to us is just a thin surface overlying supernatural depths. Every breath we take, every beat of our hearts rely upon some sort of ethereal substrate that we haven't even begun to understand

What I find frustrating is when each new scientific discovery exposes more and more of the mystery of life, that men can be so deaf, dumb and blind. We who have been given so much more knowledge about the truly inexplicable nature of reality should be so much more in awe of the Creator than those in the past who knew less, yet instead we close our minds and hearts, and consider ourselves to be the measure of all things.
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 03:10:42 PM »
This whole issue is moot if one has correctly defined soul in the traditional Greek sense of psyche and not as some ethereal body; denying its existence then becomes as idiotic as denying the contents of consciousness and the thinking, feeling, sensing totality of the internal life of a human. it then becomes only a matter, for the metaphysical quibblers, of arguing over it being "caused" to exist by the so-called "brain".

That leads us into the shenangians what exactly is meant by "causation" here and the physical brain "causing" the soul as an "epiphenomenon" - in my analytic opinion, following on from the work of the Vienna Circle, ultimately meaningless drivel (the physicalist, in the sense used here, can't just not account for the objects and mathematical laws of physics "causing" somethign so simple as a colour, since none of the "information" contained in them contain or can together form what a colour, as experienced, is, but they cannot even define the meaning of such a statement, or the brain "causing" an object of sensation like a colour and the subject who perceives it.)

As for the argument at hand, for my part I see it as misconstrued from the very start, even by the defence, which is just stated within more-or-less the same terms and on the same level as the physicalist's. Both, by the way, have replaced the meaning and idea of matter as the stuff of the content of consciousness like colour, sound, taste, bodies (resistances in space) with the abstract conceptual objects of physics (viz. "matter" is what has mass and consists of atomic "particles") and erroneously calls the former "naive materialism", and with various fashionable shenanigans ultimately ends up denying the existence of "matter" in favour of "energy" (note the laughable confusion between material vs. immaterial (ontological categories) and mass vs. energy (physical QUANTITIES) in which the juxtaposition becomes the nonsensical matter vs. energy by equation of matter and mass) or even worse, in favour of the everything=information metaphysical reductionism, which is 100 times worse a denial of reality and than any Eleatic argument and any true materialism.

The physicalists "brain", ultimately, is an object of thought conceived and derived from the content of consciousness, or if you will, of the soul, and if one isn't left astounded and mouth-agape at how they turn that on its head to "derive" the conscious subject and the soul from that abstract theoretical object of neuroscience, I really don't know what to say except "You're rather a bit dumb".
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 03:23:38 PM by Kreuzritter »
 

Offline John Lamb

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2019, 01:01:18 PM »
The eye doesn't see, it is only a window. The ear doesn't hear, it is only a microphone or receiver. In general, the body doesn't know anything, it is only a medium through which we know. The body itself is in utter darkness and dissolution until the soul gives it light and form. You will notice that there is a constant presence what we call "presence of mind" which is in the body but not of the body. We distinguish ourselves from the lower animals because we notice that they lack this presence of mind. But if you sit still and quiet your mind you'll realise that there is a presence which is even more constant and fundamental, from which all conscious thought and experience arises this is the substantial soul, which gives life and form to the body. Of itself the body is pure nothingness; the soul gives it form like air filling a balloon, without which it is just this useless empty thing, although the body without the soul is even less than that.
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: The Case for the Soul
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 12:30:23 PM »
What is CONSCIOUSNESS? The Case for the Quantum Soul


On the cutting edge of neuroscience and quantum physics, scientists are beginning to find incontrovertible evidence that there is more to this mystery of consciousness than we previously thought. It is now becoming clear that consciousness exists independently of the brain. Consciousness is "non-local," existing beyond the physical human body, and beyond space and time itself. Could science be slowly proving that consciousness exists as the "soul" or divine essence that mystics and spiritually awakened beings have been pointing to for thousands of years? The question of "What is consciousness?" will revolutionize science as we know it. And it very much already has. A new paradigm is emerging. This is the great awakening of humanity.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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