Author Topic: Are all of the Apostolic Churches completely disproven by two Bible verses?  (Read 1277 times)

Offline Gardener

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Re: Are all of the Apostolic Churches completely disproven by two Bible verses?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2019, 12:50:53 AM »
Thanks for the posts guys - and I'm really sorry for this post.

I was really tired when I got back from Church last night - I just woke up after a couple hours of sleep - before I posted these things, and it seems that a lot of deep and suppressed feelings, opinions, and inner spiritual problems I had very irrationally made themselves appear.

Mainly, lately especially lacking Faith, having bad habits of sins that I feel like I can't escape from, being trapped inside my own head, and often times feeling lonely.

So, I apologize for my outrageous post - looking back at it when I'm less tired, I don't know why I came to these absolute, definitive conclusions that Christianity must be false because an Apostle seems to quote the fact that he think that angels had sex.

I'm kind of like a walking guy from the "Notes from the Underground," and quite honestly - despite all the selfish things I've done, I ask for your prayers.

Back when I was still single I lived a 5 minute walk from the local FSSP parish in Littleton. I was in the end of a semester for school, barely eating, staying up crazy hours to study for finals/write papers, and I'd break up time between all that on forums, reading theology books, etc.

I got myself to a point where I was convinced I was the worst person in the world and walked up to the rectory and knocked on the door. Fr. Jackson answered and with tears in my eyes I asked if I could make a confession. He let me in and we proceeded. After a few minutes of me rambling, he asked, "When was the last time you had a good meal, slept, and did something for the fun of it?" I broke down in a complete mess and he said I didn't confess any sins and I need to go eat and have some fun for at least an hour, and then take a good nap.

There's an acronym I once learned: H.A.L.T.: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. If you are any, or some combination, of those four things, HALT. No big decisions. No angry screeds. No arguments with anyone. No beating yourself up. Etc. If hungry, get food. If angry, wait till you are calmed down. If lonely, rectify that however you need to do so. If tired, get some rest.

Grab a bite to eat, calm down and stop beating yourself up, go do something with someone that is carefree and fun, and grab a nap.
 
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Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Are all of the Apostolic Churches completely disproven by two Bible verses?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2019, 01:45:46 AM »
The Bible is filled with seemingly problematic verses.  Why does this make you lose the Faith?

My thoughts:

- You are pulling from a book which is not known to be infallible to try to disprove the infallibility of what you know to be infallible.

- You are making assumptions of what an ancient text means when it says "these"

- You assume that because angels are non-material and genderless that they cannot procreate.  Can the Holy Spirit impregnate a woman?  If God allows it then can creatures do things outside of their nature, such as magic?  If so then why can He not make it be such that an angel can copulate?

In the Faith there are many other absolute head-scratchers that seem to be contradictory.  You either accept it all or lose it all.  I warned you a year or so ago something about risking losing the Faith from your quest into history to prove Orthodoxy correct.  This sort of intellectual quest leads to oddities like losing the Faith from personal analysis over a couple verses.  Requiring that every aspect of the Faith must make sense to us is a recipe for apostasy.  Demanding to dot every i and cross every t is going to fail - its futile like kicking against the goads.

God knows how it all makes sense.  We don't.  When we try to fit the infinite into our finite heads its we whom break.

Put the books down, give it a break.

Edit:  Had written this and not hit reply till hours later and after your latest reply.  I had suspected this was coming from deeper problems.  Its the way we are, we rationalize the way we are feeling.  We all do this.

However I continue to think that the intellectual path will lead you out of the Faith.  Please put the books down for awhile.  You have many talents and much zeal which can be well used elsewhere for some period of time.

Edit of the Edit:  Gardener has the same good advice which is to put the books down.  Go have fun, go join a charity, go pursue a serious girlfriend (if you seek the married life and are single), play a game, go on adventures outside, take up sketching or other art, learn to cook, learn to bake, whatever.  Just put down the books.  Get outside of your head for a bit.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 02:47:38 AM by Davis Blank - EG »
 
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Are all of the Apostolic Churches completely disproven by two Bible verses?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2019, 11:59:50 AM »
Daniel stated:
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This is false. Angels are genderless and incorporeal, but that doesn't mean they can't have sex. If angels can appear as men (cf. Genesis 18:2, Tobias 5:5, and all sorts of other verses), then I see no reason to deny that they can have sex (see also Genesis 19:5).
What's debatable is whether or not the sexual act between an angel and a human woman would be fertile. As far as I know, the Church doesn't teach one way or the other. Most (if not all) theologians say that it would be sterile, though.
Even so, that doesn't mean that there can be no offspring. One hypothesis is this: the angel first appears as a woman and has sex with a man. The angel then takes the man's semen and, that same night, while the sperm is still alive, that angel appears as a man and has sex with a woman. He inseminates her with that man's sperm, and she conceives a bastard child.
This could account for the fact that many historical persons have claimed to have been demigods (assuming all such persons weren't just lying, which very well may have been the case).
I think some people have further speculated that the angel can then also corrupt this child's genes/DNA in order to cause him to mutate and become gigantic. Angels do have power over matter, after all, and DNA is matter.
Angels being spiritual beings and not having sexual organs, cannot have sex.
The Church teaches that they are spiritual beings, the rest follows.
If God would permit an Angel (more likely a devil) to steal semen and etc. The Angel would still not be having sex, it would be more like a spiritual Dr. Mengele, manipulating matter to achieve some end.
In the case we know from Sacred Scripture in the Book of Tobias, where Raphael the Archangel corporeally interacting with the Tobias family including eating and drinking; The Angel explained that he was not really doing doing any of those things: 
Quote
Peace be to you, fear not. [18] For when I was with you, I was there by the will of God: bless ye him, and sing praises to him. [19] I seemed indeed to eat and to drink with you: but I use an invisible meat and drink, which cannot be seen by men. [20] It is time therefore that I return to him that sent me: but bless ye God, and publish all his wonderful works.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 

Offline St.Justin

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Re: Are all of the Apostolic Churches completely disproven by two Bible verses?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2019, 09:57:18 PM »
This "Book of Enoch?" sounds more like more Sumerian legends funny enough which some also claim as the fore runner of Genisis.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Are all of the Apostolic Churches completely disproven by two Bible verses?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2019, 12:04:04 AM »
This "Book of Enoch?" sounds more like more Sumerian legends funny enough which some also claim as the fore runner of Genisis.

Enoch was probably written during the time of the Babylonian Exile, which would explain why there seems to be clear Babylonian Syncretism. 

And if I didn't say it, the Book of Enoch is, in fact, canonical in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and it was canonical with the Beta Zionists (Ethiopian Jews).

Although from what I've heard of Ethiopian Orthodox generally don't interpret Enoch literally, and they also tend to reject the idea of angel-human copulation.

You can read it here:
http://www.hiddenbible.com/enoch/online.html
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 12:21:24 AM by TheReturnofLive »