Author Topic: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?  (Read 159 times)

Offline Geremia

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Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« on: February 09, 2019, 05:13:11 PM »
Will states secede over abortion?

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 05:19:21 PM »
No.
 

Offline Geremia

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Offline Matto

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2019, 05:53:50 PM »
No.
Why not?
Why bother when all those babies go straight to heaven because they are martyrs.
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Offline Geremia

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2019, 06:24:36 PM »
Why bother when all those babies go straight to heaven because they are martyrs.
Not all are.

Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2019, 06:36:03 PM »
Why bother when all those babies go straight to heaven because they are martyrs.
Not all are.

The point is that many Catholics THINK they are, and so might be less likely to worry about their death.
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I think that even if many people (just how many?) are against abortion (in an opinion poll or election) they would not fight it so far as go to through the trouble of trying to secede.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 

Offline GloriaPatri

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2019, 06:56:55 PM »
Given that the states of the Union do not have the constitutional right to secede, would not be recognized by any major world power, nor have the military forces to resist retaliation from the federal government, I'm going to say no. Even states that are majority opposed to abortion still have urban regions that trend more liberal. Attempting to secede would likely introduce civil unrest within a state on a very large scale. You'd have pro-Unionists fighting against pro-Secessionists in the streets.
 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 04:04:49 PM »
Given that the states of the Union do not have the constitutional right to secede.

That's never been settled legally. Thomas Jefferson would disagree with you, to boot. The defeated cause had but no choice to lay down their arms. The empire struck a mighty blow even the gallant skeletons in gray couldn't overcome.
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Offline Reader

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 06:39:14 PM »
Given that the states of the Union do not have the constitutional right to secede, would not be recognized by any major world power, nor have the military forces to resist retaliation from the federal government, I'm going to say no. Even states that are majority opposed to abortion still have urban regions that trend more liberal. Attempting to secede would likely introduce civil unrest within a state on a very large scale. You'd have pro-Unionists fighting against pro-Secessionists in the streets.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Russia would have a serious interest in recognizing a divided U.S.
 

Offline GloriaPatri

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 07:55:22 PM »
Given that the states of the Union do not have the constitutional right to secede.

That's never been settled legally. Thomas Jefferson would disagree with you, to boot. The defeated cause had but no choice to lay down their arms. The empire struck a mighty blow even the gallant skeletons in gray couldn't overcome.

Texas v. White disagrees with you. Furthermore, the Articles of Confederation established a perpetual union among the states. Given that the Constitution establishes "a more perfect union" than the one established by the Articles it follows that the Constitution establishes a perpetual union as well.

And the bonds of union are not merely between each state individually and the federal government, they are between each state and its 49 fellows. Thus a state cannot just unilaterally leave the Union without seeking the consent of the majority of the states it is bound to, at the very least.

The only way for a state or states to leave the Union would be through mass insurrection or by consent of the states of the Union themselves to dissolve the Union (likely through some form of constitutional convention). In the former case "legality" can only be determined when there is a clear winner to the conflict, not before. In the latter case you're going to need the majority of the states ratifying any proposal to end the Union.
 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Will U.S. states secede over abortion?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 08:41:17 PM »
Given that the states of the Union do not have the constitutional right to secede.

That's never been settled legally. Thomas Jefferson would disagree with you, to boot. The defeated cause had but no choice to lay down their arms. The empire struck a mighty blow even the gallant skeletons in gray couldn't overcome.

Texas v. White disagrees with you. Furthermore, the Articles of Confederation established a perpetual union among the states. Given that the Constitution establishes "a more perfect union" than the one established by the Articles it follows that the Constitution establishes a perpetual union as well.

And the bonds of union are not merely between each state individually and the federal government, they are between each state and its 49 fellows. Thus a state cannot just unilaterally leave the Union without seeking the consent of the majority of the states it is bound to, at the very least.

The only way for a state or states to leave the Union would be through mass insurrection or by consent of the states of the Union themselves to dissolve the Union (likely through some form of constitutional convention). In the former case "legality" can only be determined when there is a clear winner to the conflict, not before. In the latter case you're going to need the majority of the states ratifying any proposal to end the Union.

Good historical gumshoe work, gringo. However, it is clearly evident that the SC has demonstrated itself to be the foundation for the oligarchs, routinely basing moral sans reason decisions in part for poltical power and pelf(Cf. Roe vs Wade).

Again, a man by the name of Jefferson disagrees with you and your candyass carpetbaggery:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/thomas-jefferson-secession-and-states-rights.130704/
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