Author Topic: being a trad in a liberal family  (Read 611 times)

Offline diaduit

  • Mary Garden
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1055
  • Thanked: 1049 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 01:43:43 AM »
As important as it is to show your children an uncompromising faith and religion, it is also and perhaps more important to show them what charity means, or else they might grow up to think that Christians are hypocrites less charitable than others who don't preach a religion of charity.
,
  I had my oldest daughter come to me one too many times and tell me things that she was saying and doing...abortion should be a women's choice, various digs at home education and the Church.  We were called fundamentalist Catholics and informed that what the Holy Father (Frankie) was saying was not in line with how we were living our lives  ::)  We wear dresses in this house, and she stocked up her house with pants for the girls, which in itself is not huge, it was just the way she went about it, like she was going to liberate them or something.   She was having my children do spelling and math when they were at her house...because she was probably worried I was making them ignorant with home education. That too is not a huge deal, but it was done in a way that seemed critical. My daughter would come home and be miserable. I had no idea what she was going to do or say next.  And I don't have time for the drama!  Large family life is dramatic enough already  :)

My blood would boil if I had a relative like this.  Its one thing to contradict your Catholic life to you as an adult its a whole other deal when she is sinister and deceitfully trying to undermine your parenting authority in such a manner.  I wouldn't hesitate cutting this out of our lives and I wouldn't lose sleep over it either.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Gardener, Traditionallyruralmom, Xavier, bigbadtrad, Josephine87

Offline Miriam_M

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5671
  • Thanked: 3470 times
  • Never have been "MiriamB"
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 01:57:56 PM »
I have never known a super-lib who wasn't also a super-control-freak.  Social engineering is part of their creed.  This is one reason I have largely kept my children away from my sister.  True story:  my sister and brother-in-law once told me that they would never take care of my children for any length of time unless they could be assured that I, their mother, was completely out of the picture and they would have free rein to  raise   indoctrinate  them as they saw fit.

The other fact about super-libs is that they feel very threatened by traditionalists, including secular traditionalists, and that's why libs direct such vigor/hostility against them.
 
The following users thanked this post: maryslittlegarden, Lynne, Traditionallyruralmom, Xavier, Josephine87

Offline Maximilian

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 4842
  • Thanked: 2355 times
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 02:56:51 PM »

I have never known a super-lib who wasn't also a super-control-freak.  Social engineering is part of their creed.

I just ran across a quote from Dostoevsky (probably here on SD) where he says, "Starting from the thesis of total freedom, one inevitably arrives at the conclusion of total tyranny."
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Traditionallyruralmom, Xavier, Josephine87

Offline Miriam_M

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5671
  • Thanked: 3470 times
  • Never have been "MiriamB"
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 03:55:29 PM »

I have never known a super-lib who wasn't also a super-control-freak.  Social engineering is part of their creed.

I just ran across a quote from Dostoevsky (probably here on SD) where he says, "Starting from the thesis of total freedom, one inevitably arrives at the conclusion of total tyranny."

Although I can't quote anybody, I have also read that the extreme right and the extreme left are actually quite like each other, in the sense of domination, restriction of freedom, and lack of trust in the individual.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich, Lynne, Traditionallyruralmom

Offline Vetus Ordo

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1544
  • Thanked: 1083 times
  • Religion: The Way
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2019, 12:19:54 PM »
I just ran across a quote from Dostoevsky (probably here on SD) where he says, "Starting from the thesis of total freedom, one inevitably arrives at the conclusion of total tyranny."

You probably took it from this topic: https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21540.0

The revolutionary theorist Shigalyov in Fyodor Dostoevksy’s novel Demons sums up the progress of his thought: “Starting with unlimited freedom, I conclude with unlimited despotism.”
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
The following users thanked this post: Maximilian

Offline Davis Blank - EG

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 291
  • Thanked: 372 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2019, 10:07:58 AM »
I am very thankful for all of you good people here.

Regarding lost family and friends, we all know how St. Monica got her wayward son into the Church.  Pray for a third party to enlighten your loved ones.  Its a sad part of human nature that strangers can easily convert a mind, but a loved one cannot.

The state of the world (and Church) is a disaster.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Xavier, Josephine87

Offline Lynne

  • happy to be Catholic!
  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8952
  • Thanked: 3685 times
  • We're all special snowflakes
  • Religion: Catholic (SSPX)
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
I am very thankful for all of you good people here.

Regarding lost family and friends, we all know how St. Monica got her wayward son into the Church.  Pray for a third party to enlighten your loved ones.  Its a sad part of human nature that strangers can easily convert a mind, but a loved one cannot.

The state of the world (and Church) is a disaster.

That's brilliant!
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Josephine87

  • Mary Garden
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Thanked: 276 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 05:51:31 PM »
I am very thankful for all of you good people here.

Regarding lost family and friends, we all know how St. Monica got her wayward son into the Church.  Pray for a third party to enlighten your loved ones.  Its a sad part of human nature that strangers can easily convert a mind, but a loved one cannot.

The state of the world (and Church) is a disaster.

That's a great point but I also want to add that she converted her pagan husband and mother-in-law! I believe her other two children became religious and were never in the same situation as Augustine. Funny isn't it, that he became the greatest saint of that family of Christians?
"Begin again." -St. Teresa of Avila

“My present trial seems to me a somewhat painful one, and I have the humiliation of knowing how badly I bore it at first. I now want to accept and to carry this little cross joyfully, to carry it silently, with a smile in my heart and on my lips, in union with the Cross of Christ. My God, blessed be Thou; accept from me each day the embarrassment, inconvenience, and pain this misery causes me. May it become a prayer and an act of reparation." -Elisabeth Leseur
 

Offline Traditionallyruralmom

  • Mary Garden
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1241
  • Thanked: 1013 times
  • Raising warriors for Christ and our country!
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 06:23:38 PM »
on the same note, how do you maintain true respect for your parents and grandparents (who are supposed to be older and wiser) who think it is fine to kill a baby, have a man pee in a ladies bathroom, yet think illegal immigration is a human right? Really struggling with this right now.  I honestly sometimes feel like my family members have no common sense, and are brainwashed by the sexual revolution and the liberal media to the point of stupidity. 
Ok, I get the prayer part, doing that all the time,....but having to interact with them and not internally feel like your 7 year old has more common sense than they do  ::)
Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.
 
The following users thanked this post: Josephine87

Offline Vetus Ordo

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 1544
  • Thanked: 1083 times
  • Religion: The Way
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2019, 08:25:30 PM »
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (Matthew 10:34-36)

This is the predicament of Christians throughout the ages: not all our beloved blood ties will believe and be saved. Some will indeed oppose God and ourselves.

The sword is to be understood as the Gospel of Christ "which is the means of dividing and separating the people of Christ from the men of the world, and from their principles and practices, and one relation from another; as also of divisions, discords, and persecutions arising from it: not that it was the intention and design of Christ, in coming into the world, to foment and encourage such things; but this, through the malice and wickedness of men, was eventually the effect and consequence of his coming; see Luke 12:51 where, instead of a "sword", it is "division"; because the sword divides asunder, as does the sword of the Spirit, the word of God." (Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible)

Or course, none of the doctrines of Christ and the Church break in upon the ties and obligations of nature, or in the least set aside any of the duties of natural religion, but the intent of the words of Our Saviour is simple: love God above all things, even your family. Remain steadfast in your faith and maintain the natural ties and affection that they are due, without losing perspective and inverting the order of priorities.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heinrich, Lynne, Traditionallyruralmom, Josephine87

Offline The Harlequin King

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3326
  • Thanked: 907 times
    • Modern Medievalism
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2019, 08:44:02 PM »
on the same note, how do you maintain true respect for your parents and grandparents (who are supposed to be older and wiser) ...

Quote
I honestly sometimes feel like my family members have no common sense, and are brainwashed by the sexual revolution and the liberal media to the point of stupidity.


I'd say you've answered your own question. We're all products of our surrounding culture, to some degree or another.
 

Offline Davis Blank - EG

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 291
  • Thanked: 372 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2019, 08:48:40 PM »
on the same note, how do you maintain true respect for your parents and grandparents (who are supposed to be older and wiser) who think it is fine to kill a baby, have a man pee in a ladies bathroom, yet think illegal immigration is a human right? Really struggling with this right now.  I honestly sometimes feel like my family members have no common sense, and are brainwashed by the sexual revolution and the liberal media to the point of stupidity. 
Ok, I get the prayer part, doing that all the time,....but having to interact with them and not internally feel like your 7 year old has more common sense than they do  ::)
That's because your 7 year old does.

We've all changed beliefs from one thing to another.  I used to be libertarian - a quite a thoughtful libertarian as well - in other words, thinking about it occupied an embarrassing amount of my time.  And I was absolutely positive that it was right as I had excellent counters for the various arguments against it.

Now I think it is moronic.  But nothing during that decade+ as a libertarian seemed to shake me from it at all.  You'd never guess what dropped the scales from my eyes.  It's absurd and you all will rightly think me nuts, but once I realized it, it quickly all unraveled.  I had been convinced that free markets and maximum liberty would result in an excellent society.  Then one day I heard that Houston was the city with the least zoning laws (in other words, very libertarian in its city development).  Well, I detest Houston.  And once I realized that a city I most disliked was a good model for libertarian development, everything began to collapse.  (sorry to anyone in Houston, we all have our own things we like and dislike)

The "reason" why people believe in one thing or another, hold one idea or another, is truly a great mystery.  Getting a person to get himself out of a destructive ideology or lifestyle is the Herculean task.  I think people generally do what they like and then rationalize it later.  We've all seen endless reasoned debates here on SD and elsewhere in life (internet, politics, coworkers, intellectuals, whatever) that never get resolved, change almost no one's opinion, and yet both sides seem well reasoned.  I suspect we can reason anything we want.

Bad ideas are like an infection that are difficult to remove.  Or perhaps even a demon that must be excised.

I think most people want to be good.  The screwup comes when they mistake what is evil for what is good.  Reason and discussion rarely will convince anyone that what they hold to be good is actually evil.  I think this change comes from something visceral.  That is why the left fights tooth and nail to prevent mandatory ultrasound images before executing the baby.  It's all fine and dandy for many women to kill their children, until they actually see a photo of that child inside her belly.  Then the scales fall from their eyes and they realize how wrong they had been.  What they had been oh so sure of, that it was good to abort, it was women's freedom, women's liberation, and oh why bring that poor child into this cruel world when I cannot care for him, now in the flip of a switch becomes horrific, how could I kill that tiny little baby inside of me?!  That's my child!

This is also why the left is smart in trotting out heart rending images of whatever it is they want.  Want open borders?  Write a NY Times op-ed with some sad photos of a family separated by a border.  It's also why they never report the crimes of illegal immigrants, or the crimes of muslims, nor show their photos, nor give a name, nor even their nationality.  Whenever a jihadi blows himself up in France its always a "French man" who did it (which is code for, a French-born Algerian muslim).

Anyways, moving back a bit more to the topic, I feel pity for those whom are against the Church and her teachings.  I know how nearly impossible it can be to bridge the gap from non-Catholic to Catholic.  I, for one know, this personally.  It's like the woman searching for love in all the wrong places.  Most people are seeking good, they are just mistakenly drawn to evil and incorrectly think it good.  How does one show Susie that thrice-imprisoned Billy is not good for her?  Usually have to wait for tragedy to strike her, and even then that often is not enough.  Its a pitiful situation, as it is for those whom hold beliefs contrary to the Church.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Traditionallyruralmom, Xavier, Josephine87, Sen

Offline Xavier

  • "Deign to use us to accomplish what was said of You, O Immaculata, "She will crush your head," and, "You alone have destroyed all heresies in the world."
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2910
  • Thanked: 2482 times
  • Immaculate Mary, Pray for the Papal Consecration!
  • Religion: Catholic Christian (Roman Rite Latin Traditionalist)
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2019, 03:54:30 AM »
Yes. Never give up praying for them and let our lives be a kind and gentle witness to them about the love of Jesus Christ and His Church. What else can we do? To help save all the members of our families is our primary calling as Christians. The best we can do is try to offer sacrifices for them, e.g. if they are rude to us, try to be nice to them, and offer up their unkindness as a sacrifice for their souls; as some Saints who obtained the conversion of their family members used to do. Obviously, if they're disobedient children, who should be honoring their parents, being stubborn, then that's different. Sternness is called for there imo. But if they're elderly parents, then maybe the best we can do is be kind to them, sometimes perhaps try to explain gently why they are mistaken.

It is said, "two conditions make prayer infallible: faith and perseverance". Fr. Sullivan suggests that if we continue to pray always for our loved ones and our neighbors, as long as we continue doing so without wavering for life, they will be eventually saved in the end. And because we were concerned about the salvation of a spouse/sibling/relative and always prayed for them, then, according to some Saints, we also will save our own souls!

That's what happened with St. Augustine and St. Monica imo. St. Monica was so concerned about her son's salvation she also herself became a Saint! Whereas some who are nominal or lukewarm Catholics but don't pray for themselves or for their loved ones or just think anybody and everybody is going to be saved anyway and so don't strive for it don't manage to save their souls. Let us seek to be like St. Monica, always believing all things are possible to God, and that if we always persevere in asking in faith, we will receive in the end.

My mother and grandfather are Catholics, many of my uncles and aunts are very liberal. Occasionally, I speak to them about Christ and His Love and the Joy and Peace He gives us gently. But for the most part, it's better to offer them to Our Lord and Our Lady in prayer.

One nice incident from a convert, Fr. Herman Cohen, in St. John Vianney's time. His mother had not converted, and every day, with great love, but also great grief, he used to commend and offer her in prayer to Our Lord and Our Lady, fearing her lost. Finally, she converted on her deathbed! And so all ended well. http://papastronsay.blogspot.com/2011/10/text-of-letter-prophesied-to-father.html
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 04:10:00 AM by Xavier »
Please listen to the frequent messages and take heed of the directions given from Our Living Lord and Our Loving Lady from around the world here: https://maryrefugeofholylove.com/ Great things are at stake. Please consecrate your life to the Blessed Mother so that the Kingdom of God may come, "Ad Sanctam Trinitatem per Mariam, Ut adveniat Regnum Deum, adveniat Regnum Mariae, ergo TOTUS TUUS ego sum, MARIA" See http://www.maria-domina-animarum.net/en/flowers/1-250

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time. Please do.

Please read the Blessed Mother's amazing promises in the link: A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. The Doctors and Apostles say if we save even just one other soul through prayer and sacrifice, we also ensure the salvation of our own. Let us all Offer all our Life to Jesus and Mary Today.
 
The following users thanked this post: Traditionallyruralmom, Josephine87

Offline Traditionallyruralmom

  • Mary Garden
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1241
  • Thanked: 1013 times
  • Raising warriors for Christ and our country!
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2019, 08:37:47 AM »
Last night I was re reading the intro to my Deliverance Prayers book, and as a child we have the ability to pray these prayers for our parents and siblings without demonic backlash.  Unfortunately grandma does not fall into that category.  I will be upping the prayer for my parents and brother and grandma (but  for gram, not using the deliverance prayers as they are laid out, modifying them as Father suggests for someone you have no authority over) because they have NO ONE else to do it. 

Its very telling that my grandmas father was a Mason, and my moms dad and his dad (both Catholics) committed adultery in very concrete ways (fathering a child, having a known mistress), and I am unsure if it was ever repented of with a priest.  To see that I am the ONLY one of the line of those generations that is faithful to Christ is so telling of the power of sin to mess up the generations. 

Another reminder for us faithful Catholics to pray for our children's spouses or future spouses every day, as well as beg Our Lady for the graces that will make all of the generations that come forth from us receive and accept a lively gift of faith, holiness and purity. 
Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Maximilian, Xavier, Josephine87

Offline Josephine87

  • Mary Garden
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Thanked: 276 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: being a trad in a liberal family
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2019, 02:48:25 PM »
I had been convinced that free markets and maximum liberty would result in an excellent society.  Then one day I heard that Houston was the city with the least zoning laws (in other words, very libertarian in its city development).  Well, I detest Houston.  And once I realized that a city I most disliked was a good model for libertarian development, everything began to collapse.  (sorry to anyone in Houston, we all have our own things we like and dislike)

I live in Houston and I definitely agree with you!  Although I'd say zoning laws are just one piece of the enormous problem here.
"Begin again." -St. Teresa of Avila

“My present trial seems to me a somewhat painful one, and I have the humiliation of knowing how badly I bore it at first. I now want to accept and to carry this little cross joyfully, to carry it silently, with a smile in my heart and on my lips, in union with the Cross of Christ. My God, blessed be Thou; accept from me each day the embarrassment, inconvenience, and pain this misery causes me. May it become a prayer and an act of reparation." -Elisabeth Leseur