Author Topic: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children  (Read 1687 times)

Offline Quaremerepulisti

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3879
  • Thanked: 1268 times
  • Religion: Catholic (Byzantine)
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2019, 05:24:21 PM »
Of course, all Catholic doctrine should be taught at an appropriate age (e.g. when children are able to understand) and there should be no question about that.  It's a question of prudence, of which parents are going to be the primary judge, when children are ready to learn this or that specific doctrine.

But there's a difference between instructing about the reality of hell or the possibility of hell vs. "instilling the fear" of hell, which is indicative of a state of mind instead of knowledge of a doctrine, and the concept of which (usually) involves several quite psychologically unhealthy aspects, as well as some questionable (at best) theology.  For every St. Anthony Mary Claret there are probably 20 who have left the faith, psychologically traumatized and refusing to worship the dictator God put out to them.

According to the standard (sin-as-contest-of-wills) line, God issues commands because He is God and has the right to have everything His way.  Sucks to be us, if that isn't what's best for us or the way we would have it, and sucks even more if we find it difficult to conform to His way - who are we to complain, and we have no real right to His help, but with enough abasement maybe He will be merciful and help us, or maybe not, since He owes us nothing, being cursed children of Adam and all.  Anyway, if we disobey (no matter how much we struggled in the attempt), this is an infinite insult to almighty God Who has the right to our obedience (prescinding from exactly what it was that was commanded), and makes us deserving of infinite punishment.  And He gets His revenge on disobedient humanity by torturing them horrendously for all eternity.  Of course, we have to loudly proclaim how much this God loves us and how wonderful His acts for humanity and how much He desires the salvation of all - despite having made the trajectory of the vast majority of mankind an almost certain path to hell, so He can manifest His justice, claiming He gave "sufficient grace" for them to be saved, despite His knowledge of how futile that would be in practice.  And, we know that while perfect contrition is a possibility in theory, it almost never happens in practice, so we can be confident that pretty much everyone to whom God did not grant the grace of a priest present in the hour of death is now suffering eternal fire.

You will argue this is a caricature.  It is not.  I can find support for all the above statements in traditional Western theology.  And thus, it's made God into a bully.  A very powerful bully, but a bully all the same  - Kim Jong-Un on steroids.  And people who worship a bullying God are bullies, or become bullies, themselves, which explain things like lack of compassion for the victims of clerical sex abuse, and many other things, including hardline right-wing politics and lack of sympathy for the poor, whose situation is always seen as a Divine chastisement.  But over and above all that, rebellion, eventually, is inevitable, and when rebellion happens people inevitably go to the opposite extreme.  And this is a good part of the story in my opinion of the post-Conciliar aftermath.  The Western world has rejected this and it's not coming back, no matter how much you might wish otherwise.

But there's another way.  It is to look at the evil of sin in and of itself, how the sinner rejects goodness and embraces evil - this is not because of some decree of God, but because of what sin is in itself - "missing the mark" - by its nature separating one from God, not because God is out to get revenge, pissed off He didn't get His way.  And how God, Who is Goodness itself, has, as it were, a "stake" in the person's choice: He didn't just become man in the person of Jesus Christ, but in some mysterious way, united Himself with mankind as a whole (that means each one of us) - John Paul II said this in Redemptor Hominis but it's been East doctrine for a long time.  And, also, realizing that God's saving action means changing our hearts, at least if we ask Him to - and if we do, there is no reason for fear of hell - it is not reasonable.  It is the only real way to harmonize "Convert us to You, and we will be converted" with "Turn ye to Me, and I will turn to you".

 

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 493
  • Thanked: 127 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2019, 06:02:13 PM »
You will argue this is a caricature.  It is not.  I can find support for all the above statements in traditional Western theology.  And thus, it's made God into a bully.  A very powerful bully, but a bully all the same  - Kim Jong-Un on steroids.  And people who worship a bullying God are bullies, or become bullies, themselves, which explain things like lack of compassion for the victims of clerical sex abuse, and many other things, including hardline right-wing politics and lack of sympathy for the poor, whose situation is always seen as a Divine chastisement.  But over and above all that, rebellion, eventually, is inevitable, and when rebellion happens people inevitably go to the opposite extreme.  And this is a good part of the story in my opinion of the post-Conciliar aftermath.  The Western world has rejected this and it's not coming back, no matter how much you might wish otherwise.

As you are a Catholic, I question how you deal with the fact that the Virgin Mary showed the children of Fatima Hell, and they were acting almost traumatized by it, to the point one of the children started self flagellating.
 

Offline Graham

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1117
  • Thanked: 741 times
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2019, 06:05:23 PM »
I like this thing QMR sometimes does where he goes "I've come up with another way of looking at this" and then says something pretty normal.

To be fair he does often have another way of looking at things though.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 06:16:02 PM by Graham »
 
The following users thanked this post: Xavier

Offline Maximilian

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Thanked: 2685 times
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2019, 07:21:53 PM »

Is the topic:
A. teach your children about Hell or
B. Instill the fear of Hell in Children? 

Answer: B


Can you spot the difference?

Yes, "A" by itself is nothing more than mind games, preparing your children to get a good score on the Catechism test, or making sure they're ready if the subject comes up on Jeopardy.

"B" is how you help them to form their souls so that they reach heaven and avoid hell.

Lack of fear is what we see all around us as the defining feature of the young adults who are already far advanced on the road to perdition. They're not afraid of their parents, they're not afraid of their teachers, they're not afraid of the police, they're not even afraid of God who can send their soul to hell for all eternity. Like a ship without any ballast, they are sure to capsize immediately, even in calm weather. So they have no virtue of obedience, they have no respect for their superiors, they're doing drugs, fornicating, failing in their duties, all because they lack a necessary and salutary fear.


This is the difference between a physician coming in to teach your teens about reproduction and a showgirl coming in to turn your teens on. 

No this is the difference between
A. a physician coming to teach your teens about reproduction and
B. the gut-level fear of consequences that used to work so effectively

A. is a waste of time and proven to be counter-productive, just like sex-ed and DARE.
B. Worked for as long as it was practiced, and stopped working only when people abandoned the tried-and-tested method that worked for countless generations.


I'm thinking that this is such an ill defined area that people are making misapplications all over the place.

No, it's not "ill-defined." It's very well established. You just don't want to accept the reality of Catholic doctrine which has already been proven to you on this thread.


 People are Jesus is conflating teaching about Hell with instilling fear of Hell with fear of the Lord, with imperfect contrition…etc.

The words of our Lord from the Bible have already been provided on this thread showing that He is the one who taught us to associate "Fear of the Lord" with "fear of hell."
 

We are talking about the concept of deliberately provoking an emotional reaction in children.

Right. Which is exactly what needs to happen if you want to have any effect on them. Without an emotional reaction there is no permanent impact. Endlessly talking to children without "provoking an emotional reaction" is just the "Blah, blah, blah" of Charlie Brown's teacher.
 

We aren't discussing the concept of Hell and its relation to us in a doctrinal manner in which each child or adult must make an evaluation based on their grasp of the subject and their will and not their emotional reactions. 

Thank goodness we aren't talking about that, because that would be a waste of time.


And children aren't stupid (not all of them anyway)  and they will know on some level when they are being played. 

They will know they are being played when they are not given sufficient information about eternal consequences of their actions -- like Michael Wilson's 5 - 6 year-old niece who was outraged that she was not given all the information.


They aren't just learning about the fires of Hell, they are learning about manipulation through fear. 

You choose to use the loaded term "manipulation." But children must be influenced through fear. That is also in the Bible.


This is why you see so many people scoff at "being damned to Hell" by "the Church" or the nuns or the "hypocritical" priests. 

Those who "scoff" are "whistling past the graveyard." If they were taught properly, then they know what is in store for them. And that knowledge may yet save their souls in the end.

Those who were not taught properly will wake up only when they feel the fires of hell.
 
The following users thanked this post: bigbadtrad, Davis Blank - EG

Offline Sen

  • Hellebardier
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Thanked: 56 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2019, 07:58:24 PM »
You will argue this is a caricature.  It is not.  I can find support for all the above statements in traditional Western theology.  And thus, it's made God into a bully.  A very powerful bully, but a bully all the same  - Kim Jong-Un on steroids.  And people who worship a bullying God are bullies, or become bullies, themselves, which explain things like lack of compassion for the victims of clerical sex abuse, and many other things, including hardline right-wing politics and lack of sympathy for the poor, whose situation is always seen as a Divine chastisement.  But over and above all that, rebellion, eventually, is inevitable, and when rebellion happens people inevitably go to the opposite extreme.  And this is a good part of the story in my opinion of the post-Conciliar aftermath.  The Western world has rejected this and it's not coming back, no matter how much you might wish otherwise.

I agree with your approach. And I'm not saying the following is the best way of approaching things as a Catholic, but how do you explain that Islam views God in this way -- as the dictator whose every whim humanity must submit to lest they be thrust into hell -- yet is the fastest growing religion, with adherents who appear to take their religion much more seriously than modern Catholics do? There actually seems to be more rebellion against the wishy washy modern, emphasis on love Christianity, from which Catholics are leaving by the droves. It's as if people by nature respect and are more willing to submit to the "master" or "bully" image of God and less so to the "loving friend" image. Especially men. And, from my humble observations, the father (much more than the mother) keeping the faith is a strong predictor of the children keeping the faith.
 
The following users thanked this post: Maximilian

Offline Quaremerepulisti

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3879
  • Thanked: 1268 times
  • Religion: Catholic (Byzantine)
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2019, 09:02:59 PM »
As you are a Catholic, I question how you deal with the fact that the Virgin Mary showed the children of Fatima Hell, and they were acting almost traumatized by it, to the point one of the children started self flagellating.

I don't believe the entire story of Fatima.
 
The following users thanked this post: St. Columba

Offline St.Justin

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2089
  • Thanked: 831 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2019, 09:47:08 PM »
As you are a Catholic, I question how you deal with the fact that the Virgin Mary showed the children of Fatima Hell, and they were acting almost traumatized by it, to the point one of the children started self flagellating.

I don't believe the entire story of Fatima.

Quare, Where did you learn your Catholic Faith?
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3879
  • Thanked: 1268 times
  • Religion: Catholic (Byzantine)
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2019, 09:50:26 PM »
As you are a Catholic, I question how you deal with the fact that the Virgin Mary showed the children of Fatima Hell, and they were acting almost traumatized by it, to the point one of the children started self flagellating.

I don't believe the entire story of Fatima.

Quare, Where did you learn your Catholic Faith?

If you think that Fatima is part of the Catholic Faith then it is you whose learning is deficient.

 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3879
  • Thanked: 1268 times
  • Religion: Catholic (Byzantine)
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2019, 10:15:33 PM »
Lack of fear is what we see all around us as the defining feature of the young adults who are already far advanced on the road to perdition. They're not afraid of their parents, they're not afraid of their teachers, they're not afraid of the police, they're not even afraid of God who can send their soul to hell for all eternity. Like a ship without any ballast, they are sure to capsize immediately, even in calm weather. So they have no virtue of obedience, they have no respect for their superiors, they're doing drugs, fornicating, failing in their duties, all because they lack a necessary and salutary fear.

The defining feature, really????

So the primary problem underlying young adults committing crimes is lack of fear of the police???? 
The primary problem with dropping out of school is lack of fear of teachers???
The primary problem with doing drugs and fornicating is lack of fear of parents???

What a strange world you live in.

Now sure, if the only thing preventing you from committing a crime is fear of prosecution and prison, then by all means, if that will dissuade you from doing it, then let fear of police come into play.  But you are already a bad person and not an upstanding citizen, at least in desire, if you are at that state of mind, for you lack the respect for others that should make even thinking about committing a crime out of the question.

And so it is with everything else: a lack of proper respect.  And the same thing goes for one for whom the only thing preventing him from sinning is fear of hell.  If that is his state (desirous of sinning but only the fear of punishment holding his off), he is in a very bad state indeed.
 

Offline Maximilian

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Thanked: 2685 times
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2019, 10:21:49 PM »

So the primary problem underlying young adults committing crimes is lack of fear of the police???? 
The primary problem with dropping out of school is lack of fear of teachers???
The primary problem with doing drugs and fornicating is lack of fear of parents???

Yes. You can spot a young person headed for trouble by their lack of fear. The government if they wished could easily identify "at-risk youth" that way.


What a strange world you live in.

The same one you do.
 
The following users thanked this post: bigbadtrad

Offline Non Nobis

  • Why are you fearful?
  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 4527
  • Thanked: 3188 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2019, 11:48:36 PM »
I think the fear of hell isn't supposed to be a neurosis-engendering, terrorizing, immobilizing fear that hampers love but an EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY taken fear of the authority of God and His right to punish immense sin with IMMENSE punishment.  I think children need to be taught this carefully along with teaching God's love and the love they should have for Him.

If teaching the fear of hell is put off until a child is older, even IF he is a sweet innocent child who loves God, he may fall at last into sin and be hardened against fearing hell when he needs to, because he was taught that hell was not so fearful or that he was too good to go there.

Fear of Hell is in a way a "last resort" to the prevention of evil, but it NEEDS TO BE THERE, just as policemen and jails and teachers who punish need to be there. Without these barriers in place, a man who (for WHATEVER reason, regardless of what he was taught) does not have so much love will more easily fall.

Fear of hell is an acknowledgement of God's absolute Justice and of the evil of sin.

Exactly how a Catholic mother would instill a proper fear of hell in her children is something I don't really know (not being a mother), but I think that  God would help her, since it is so crucial.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:10:48 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
The following users thanked this post: Maximilian, Xavier, Josephine87

Offline Gerard

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3744
  • Thanked: 1413 times
  • .. and his raiment became white and glittering
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2019, 01:32:34 AM »

Is the topic:
A. teach your children about Hell or
B. Instill the fear of Hell in Children? 

Answer: B


Can you spot the difference?

Yes, "A" by itself is nothing more than mind games, preparing your children to get a good score on the Catechism test, or making sure they're ready if the subject comes up on Jeopardy.

"B" is how you help them to form their souls so that they reach heaven and avoid hell.

Lack of fear is what we see all around us as the defining feature of the young adults who are already far advanced on the road to perdition. They're not afraid of their parents, they're not afraid of their teachers, they're not afraid of the police, they're not even afraid of God who can send their soul to hell for all eternity. Like a ship without any ballast, they are sure to capsize immediately, even in calm weather. So they have no virtue of obedience, they have no respect for their superiors, they're doing drugs, fornicating, failing in their duties, all because they lack a necessary and salutary fear.


I'm sorry but this is friggin' perverse. 

What you don't see all around us is the lack of respect.  Not the lack of fear. 

I've never been afraid of the police because I've always respected them. I've always respected the laws of the land as well.  So I never cause them trouble and they never give me a problem.  I hold doors for them and greet them in the stores.  I was taught that as a kid and I do it now even when the cops are younger than I am.  Friends of mine who didn't respect the rules of the road, treated the officers with scorn didn't fare so well with their run ins.     

Teachers who instilled "fear" in the classroom I despised.  And I frankly still despise them 40+ years later.  If I were more emotional and less respectful, I'd be relieving myself on a number of graves if I had the opportunity. Teachers who engendered respect in the classroom were real teachers, they respected the students, the students respected them and because the students respected them, they respected the subjects being taught and consequently learned. 

A drunk or abusive parent can easily instill fear into a child.  That doesn't do the child any good.  A parent that instills respect into a child is one that takes their responsibility seriously. 

To "respect" is to look back to…in other words, when a person faces a decision, they look back towards the authority figure either literally or metaphorically and measure their decision against what guidelines established by the authority figure. 



Quote


This is the difference between a physician coming in to teach your teens about reproduction and a showgirl coming in to turn your teens on. 

No this is the difference between
A. a physician coming to teach your teens about reproduction and
B. the gut-level fear of consequences that used to work so effectively

Work so effectively?  Are you kidding? All that developed was clever ways of lying and hiding people's indiscretions while they would hypocritically condemn those that didn't hide their sins as well.  Girls giving birth and their sons are raised by her parents as her brother.  Good times.  Bobby Darrin was probably elated when he found that one out. 

Shotgun weddings, with couples that only know how to instill fear into their wife or their children.   Good plan.  Worked out so well. 

Quote
A. is a waste of time and proven to be counter-productive, just like sex-ed and DARE.
B. Worked for as long as it was practiced, and stopped working only when people abandoned the tried-and-tested method that worked for countless generations.

A is a waste of time on kids that have already been beaten up emotionally for years over everything.  They are anxious at that point to rebel and relieve that fear and go for the forbidden fruit. 

This is because they were taught to fear and not respect. 


Quote

I'm thinking that this is such an ill defined area that people are making misapplications all over the place.

No, it's not "ill-defined." It's very well established. You just don't want to accept the reality of Catholic doctrine which has already been proven to you on this thread.

No. You are the one who is misapplying Catholic doctrine and twisting it into a form of sadism. 

Quote

 People are Jesus is conflating teaching about Hell with instilling fear of Hell with fear of the Lord, with imperfect contrition…etc.

The words of our Lord from the Bible have already been provided on this thread showing that He is the one who taught us to associate "Fear of the Lord" with "fear of hell."

No.  You are conflating the words of the Lord about the consequence of behavior leading to Hell vs. Hell itself. 

You haven't reconciled my reference to all of those scripture passages that tell the faithful not to be fearful. 


 
Quote

We are talking about the concept of deliberately provoking an emotional reaction in children.

Right. Which is exactly what needs to happen if you want to have any effect on them. Without an emotional reaction there is no permanent impact. Endlessly talking to children without "provoking an emotional reaction" is just the "Blah, blah, blah" of Charlie Brown's teacher.

Assinine.  As if fear is the greatest of all emotions.  And abusing a persons sense of fear and distorting is not screwing them up.   Fear is the motivational tool of the incompetent dullard.  Most likely someone who had fear instilled in them by another incompetent dullard.  It's a generational disorder.

I'm reminded of being in an SSPX chapel years ago when I regularly attended.  The still-wet behind the ears father was probably thinking he was "doing what was right" as he proceeded to smack his infant for crying during mass.  All the while they were getting the kid all sugared up on apple juice while in the pews.  God help that poor kid, if he's still alive he's a teenager by now and probably messed up significantly because his father is an idiot. 

Quote

We aren't discussing the concept of Hell and its relation to us in a doctrinal manner in which each child or adult must make an evaluation based on their grasp of the subject and their will and not their emotional reactions. 

Thank goodness we aren't talking about that, because that would be a waste of time.

I agree, we are in the process of exposing poisoned thinking that is probably one of the main reasons why trads are so fragmented and the whole Latin Church fractured when its glass jaw was hit by modernism. 

Quote

And children aren't stupid (not all of them anyway)  and they will know on some level when they are being played. 

They will know they are being played when they are not given sufficient information about eternal consequences of their actions -- like Michael Wilson's 5 - 6 year-old niece who was outraged that she was not given all the information.

Eternal consequences of their actions and choices like Heaven?  Or are you just interested in a child being given a life of fear with the only goal being "Don't go there!" 


Quote

They aren't just learning about the fires of Hell, they are learning about manipulation through fear. 
You choose to use the loaded term "manipulation." But children must be influenced through fear. That is also in the Bible.

I can't wait to see what and how you've misinterpreted some more passages from the Bible. 

Quote

This is why you see so many people scoff at "being damned to Hell" by "the Church" or the nuns or the "hypocritical" priests. 

Those who "scoff" are "whistling past the graveyard." If they were taught properly, then they know what is in store for them. And that knowledge may yet save their souls in the end.

Those who were not taught properly will wake up only when they feel the fires of hell.
[/quote]

No.  You are arguing against giving them knowledge. That's a waste of time according to you.  They are just reacting emotionally and only with fear.  That's what you want.  It's just that they've run out of fear and are running on another emotion (scorn)  to keep them going in this life.  Fear tends to wear a person out.  Hope actually keeps people going. 

If they end up in the fires of Hell, they will have their parents most likely there with them to blame.  The ones who abused them emotionally by gaming them into what is essentially a power play and not an actual nurturing care for their souls. 

 While too many parents today of my generation have an unhealthy worshipfulness for their children, the previous generations had an equally destructive concept of "ownership" of their children.  And when they weren't especially wishing for more children, they become "saddled" with children.  So, the best way to coral them or to make them pay for a parent's unrealized goals was to dominate them and prey on their fears in order to gain power or other ignoble motivations. 




 
The following users thanked this post: St. Columba

Offline Gerard

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3744
  • Thanked: 1413 times
  • .. and his raiment became white and glittering
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2019, 01:50:47 AM »
I think the fear of hell isn't supposed to be a neurosis-engendering, terrorizing, immobilizing fear that hampers love but an EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY taken fear of the authority of God and His right to punish immense sin with IMMENSE punishment.  I think children need to be taught this carefully along with teaching God's love and the love they should have for Him.

I think it's interesting that people are pointing out the necessity of teaching about Hell but adding the qualifier that it should be in conjunction with teaching about God's love and I would imagine the joys of Heaven. 

That's the big mystery because I think most of us are suspicious and some are probably enthusiastic about the idea of simply creating that crippling and craven fear as a means of controlling behavior and not having to contend with a soul.  Adding Heaven and free will and explaining the Good News as actually Good News and not the Guilt News would make parenting more complicated. 

"Give him enough fear and he'll be on auto-pilot.  That's good enough."  It has the mark of being given the responsibility to watch another person and your best strategy is the have them anesthetized for the entire time you are responsible. 


Quote
If teaching the fear of hell is put off until a child is older, even IF he is a sweet innocent child who loves God, he may fall at last into sin and be hardened against fearing hell when he needs to, because he was taught that hell was not so fearful or that he was too good to go there.

I think you hit it on the head that it needs to be taught carefully and include God's Love and Heaven and the choices of free will.  Ignoring it is not the answer and teaching it in isolation is also not the answer. 

Quote
Fear of Hell is in a way a "last resort" to the prevention of evil, but it NEEDS TO BE THERE, just as policemen and jails and teachers who punish need to be there. Without these barriers in place, a man who (for WHATEVER reason, regardless of what he was taught) does not have so much love will more easily fall.

As a last resort, true but a lot of people have come away with the idea that it's the first option and nothing ever needs to be added to it.  That's why so many people have a the distorted version of God as cruel "Worship Me or I will send you to Hell."  Their emotional reaction to Hell has poisoned them to the idea of God as a whole.  Or at least what they believe the Catholic teaching on God is. 

Quote
Fear of hell is an acknowledgement of God's absolute Justice and of the evil of sin.

Exactly how a Catholic mother would instill a proper fear of hell in her children is something I don't really know (not being a mother), but I think that  God would help her, since it is so crucial.

A lot of that is not understood even by Catholics.  What is "sin"?   God says, Do this or don't do that and if you do or don't you "sin"?   That's a really odd way of explaining things to someone isn't it? 

"Sin" just becomes points on a scorecard or something.  Bishop Sheen once pointed out that a child can understand the pain of separation from a relationship.  If they can do that.  They can understand sin if they are taught it that way. 

 

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 493
  • Thanked: 127 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2019, 02:26:39 AM »
As you are a Catholic, I question how you deal with the fact that the Virgin Mary showed the children of Fatima Hell, and they were acting almost traumatized by it, to the point one of the children started self flagellating.

I don't believe the entire story of Fatima.

Regardless if you found it as a hoax, or perhaps even a delusion done by Satan, and your Church has allowed you to reject it, your Church declared it still as legitimate and worthy of veneration, which necessarily implies that any morality or dogmatic teaching which comes from it will be beneficial to the soul, if not leaving no effect on the soul.

Therefore, the Catholic Church has stated that the idea of the Theotokos showing children the literal torments of Hell, such that they were traumatized, with one child self-flagellating, is a morally and dogmatic acceptable story which - if not harmful to the soul, is beneficial to the soul. After all, can Rome approve devotions which cause one to sin and fall away from God?

And you'll have to wrestle with your own statements thus, in asserting the Virgin Mary as a bully, whose actions necessitate a lack of compassion.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 02:30:07 AM by TheReturnofLive »
 
The following users thanked this post: Pon de Replay

Offline Davis Blank - EG

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 516
  • Thanked: 666 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Instilling the fear of Hell in Children
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2019, 07:21:27 AM »
This argument reads as if there were an objectively correct one-size-fits-all approach to raising children.  Some people need to learn through fear.  Some people if you treat them with respect they will walk all over you.  Some must learn fear first before they can respect authority and in turn be respected by authority.
 
The following users thanked this post: Non Nobis, Maximilian, awkwardcustomer, Xavier, bigbadtrad, Josephine87