Author Topic: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories  (Read 1584 times)

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2019, 04:54:58 PM »
By the same token, human nature also makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really hard to conceal, especially today in the age of mass media.

The mass media is what makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really easy to conceal . . .

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I think the boring truth is that the world's most powerful people aren't part of any secret society or adhere to any particular creed.

The world's most powerful people are the demons, who are certainly in conspiracy; and to think that men in high places aren't wittingly or unwittingly in league with the demons shows real ignorance of human nature.

I honestly don't know how a Christian can't be a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theory is basically a part of the Christian faith. All history is a battle between two conspiracies (angelic & demonic). Demons had all kinds of temples, cults, and states under their power in the ancient world. Do you think they just gave up entirely after Christians kicked them off their thrones?

Doesn't matter if they all get together in a room and make plans or not when one puppet master is driving them toward the same goal.
 

Offline TradGranny

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2019, 06:07:37 PM »

[/quote]
Doesn't matter if they all get together in a room and make plans or not when one puppet master is driving them toward the same goal.
[/quote]

Amen brother. Jesus told us that we fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, etc.
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila
 
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2019, 06:12:47 PM »
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Again, besides Bezmenov and a quote from Khruschev, what Soviets have admitted to morally destabilizing countries in order to seize control?

How did you jump from "Communists / Socialists" to Soviets?

When I was initially talking about "Socialists", I was referring to the conspiracy of Soviets who wanted to use Socialist ideology as a methodology of "divide and conquer," visa vi Bella Todd or Bezmenov, which - obviously the Soviet Union no longer exists, but according to the theory, the people they propped up - whether they were explicit Marxists or not - are still hell bent on destroying society by demoralization, ideological subversion, etc.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2019, 06:26:08 PM »
By the same token, human nature also makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really hard to conceal, especially today in the age of mass media.

The mass media is what makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really easy to conceal . . .

Well, when you have the Internet now, independent news outlets, etc., if there's explicit evidence of something nefarious, it's bound to be found it out.

We no longer live in a day and age where all of the media is exclusively controlled by a couple of corporations in cooperation with the government, to conceal and twist whatever fits their narrative - there's alternative and individual outlets nowadays to find information that mainstream news outlets wouldn't usually give, such that things can't be hidden as well.

Here's an example.

There was an online personality named "Kraut" who felt like the "Alt-Right" was getting to powerful, so he created a Discord with other like-minded individuals, said Discord had the express goal of infiltrating Alt-Right platforms or destroying the reputation of Alt-Right figures.

There's a very controversial figure named "Andy Warski" who has a YouTube channel / stream whose purpose is Internet Bloodsports (where people who have a beef confront each other and rip into each other), and bringing in very controversial figures for debate (for example, there was a debate between Richard Spencer and Sargon of Akkad as to whether or not "race" exists or is just a construct; if there was a black race, a white race, an Asian race, etc., each with different characteristics).

Well, allegations came out with photo evidence of this Andy Warski allegedly texting sexual things to a 14 year old, and it was revealed that it was all a hoax by this Discord group.

Likewise, a woman who was a part of the group tried to setup a convention for Alt-Right speakers called "Killroy," making them sign a non-disclosure agreement in order to sabotage their reputation - but failed of course.

What do you know, someone who was a part of the group took screenshots of the group and posted it online, destroying the reputation of everyone in that group online and running off the guy who started it off the internet.


So, this was just a small group that got leaked and destroyed.

In the age of Internet where something like this can get leaked, how can a conspiracy that's so expansive over international society be hidden without any evidence, or anybody who was a part of it leaking what it is?


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I think the boring truth is that the world's most powerful people aren't part of any secret society or adhere to any particular creed.
Quote
The world's most powerful people are the demons, who are certainly in conspiracy; and to think that men in high places aren't wittingly or unwittingly in league with the demons shows real ignorance of human nature.

I honestly don't know how a Christian can't be a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theory is basically a part of the Christian faith. All history is a battle between two conspiracies (angelic & demonic). Demons had all kinds of temples, cults, and states under their power in the ancient world. Do you think they just gave up entirely after Christians kicked them off their thrones?

That's a true point, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they operate through puppet-master organizations.

After all, Stalin was a Seminarian - all it took was a demon to make him lose his faith, and what do you know? He becomes a dictator through an atheistic and utopian ideology, and he causes millions to be murdered. And based on his disturbing death, he is probably not in Heaven.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 06:38:05 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2019, 06:33:31 PM »
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Again, besides Bezmenov and a quote from Khruschev, what Soviets have admitted to morally destabilizing countries in order to seize control?
Are you livign under a friggin rock with wool pulled over your eyes and your fingers stuck in your ears whilst humming "Nananananana" to yourself?

No, I don't think malicious ideologues trying to destroy Western Civilization = Freemasonry controlling all the banking institutions.
 

Offline Graham

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2019, 09:59:14 PM »
No, your example of some pissant internet drama doesn't prove that conspiracies don't exist.

Every interest group of every size and description is conspiring for group gain. Groups of sufficient influence understand basic procedures to minimize damaging leaks, are able to impose costs on traitors, and can pretty successfully obfuscate when leaks happen in any case.

You sound ignorant mocking at Freemason conspiracies. They are a prime example of the successful conspiracy. It's also ludicrous to speak of radical ideologues as if they aren't being intentionally formed by interest groups (which previously operated discreetly but thanks to their success are now considered prestigious)

Where people go wrong is in attributing inordinate effects to the machinations of interest groups which in reality have sociological causes which are under nobody's control. I say the Freemasons were a successful conspiracy but they were also riding a wave of technological and economic revolution.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 10:01:28 PM by Graham »
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2019, 10:59:52 PM »
I honestly don't know how a Christian can't be a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theory is basically a part of the Christian faith. All history is a battle between two conspiracies (angelic & demonic). Demons had all kinds of temples, cults, and states under their power in the ancient world. Do you think they just gave up entirely after Christians kicked them off their thrones?

This is certainly true. But isn't it possible that Satan would lead some people astray by focusing their attention on phony little conspiracies, directing it away from the great battle? An extreme example: mightn't arguing against the reality of the moon landing be wasting time that could be spent fighting the errors against FAITH? Those who think you are crazy will be totally turned away from your religious arguments too.  And some conspiracies, even if they are true, may be little distractions from the big ones. Would proving that the moon landing is phony (or that the earth is flat) bring people to the Church or prevent them from becoming atheists?

This isn't to say there aren't true conspiracies worth uncovering; those that are aimed  pretty clearly against God and the Church: especially when exposure is likely to do some good or prevent some evil.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 11:04:38 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2019, 11:55:58 PM »

But isn't it possible that Satan would lead some people astray by focusing their attention on phony little conspiracies, directing it away from the great battle? An extreme example: mightn't arguing against the reality of the moon landing be wasting time that could be spent fighting the errors against FAITH?

No, you've got it backwards. Those who are hoodwinked by the lying fables of the world are not able to understand the Faith.

The world is spinning a story to deceive you and to make you unable to see the supernatural reality of God. Every time you go along with them, it's not just that you are helping to further the conspiracy, but you are deceiving yourself.

There's a very good and solid reason why the man who refused to go along with the lies about gas chambers is also the man who refused to go along with the surrender of Tradition. Having the courage to seek the truth when it is painful and inconvenient in one area makes you capable of seeking and finding and accepting the truth when it is painful and inconvenient regarding topics such as the true Catholic Faith.


Those who think you are crazy will be totally turned away from your religious arguments too. 

If they do not recognize the truth when they hear it, then they were never among the predestined.


And some conspiracies, even if they are true, may be little distractions from the big ones. Would proving that the moon landing is phony (or that the earth is flat) bring people to the Church or prevent them from becoming atheists?

No, this is exactly wrong. One lie can never support a truth. One truth always supports other truths. The truth is all of one piece.

So too are the lies told by the masters of the world. Each little story here or there is like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle that when it is all put together reveals one over-arching image. The revolt of Lucifer against God.


This isn't to say there aren't true conspiracies worth uncovering; those that are aimed  pretty clearly against God and the Church: especially when exposure is likely to do some good or prevent some evil.

"Live not by lies." It may seem prudent for you to decide whether or not "it is likely to do some good or prevent some evil" by exposing a lie. But that is a false, worldly prudence. Nearly every time we will decide that it's not worth it. "Why should I risk my own security by exposing falsehoods? It won't do any good."
 
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2019, 02:41:03 AM »
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But isn't it possible that Satan would lead some people astray by focusing their attention on phony little conspiracies, directing it away from the great battle? An extreme example: mightn't arguing against the reality of the moon landing be wasting time that could be spent fighting the errors against FAITH?

No, you've got it backwards. Those who are hoodwinked by the lying fables of the world are not able to understand the Faith.

The world is spinning a story to deceive you and to make you unable to see the supernatural reality of God. Every time you go along with them, it's not just that you are helping to further the conspiracy, but you are deceiving yourself.

There's a very good and solid reason why the man who refused to go along with the lies about gas chambers is also the man who refused to go along with the surrender of Tradition. Having the courage to seek the truth when it is painful and inconvenient in one area makes you capable of seeking and finding and accepting the truth when it is painful and inconvenient regarding topics such as the true Catholic Faith.

See, here's the thing though - you are forcing a belief onto somebody of something which is irrelevant for salvation.
Let's assume ISIS doesn't really exist - they are nothing more than a proxy funded by the CIA. How is that relevant to your salvation?
Believe it or not, we are not going to be judged based on whether or not we know a conspiracy or not.

Rather, according to Christ Himself,

"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'"

Those who think you are crazy will be totally turned away from your religious arguments too. 
If they do not recognize the truth when they hear it, then they were never among the predestined.

Okay Mr. J. Calvin, can you tell me how it's Catholic to believe that one can determine who is among the "predestined" by who they are and how they act?

Quote

And some conspiracies, even if they are true, may be little distractions from the big ones. Would proving that the moon landing is phony (or that the earth is flat) bring people to the Church or prevent them from becoming atheists?

No, this is exactly wrong. One lie can never support a truth. One truth always supports other truths. The truth is all of one piece.

So too are the lies told by the masters of the world. Each little story here or there is like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle that when it is all put together reveals one over-arching image. The revolt of Lucifer against God.

Except the fact that that truth is your own opinion and is irrelevant for the puzzle of salvation.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2019, 02:43:57 AM »
No, your example of some pissant internet drama doesn't prove that conspiracies don't exist.

Every interest group of every size and description is conspiring for group gain. Groups of sufficient influence understand basic procedures to minimize damaging leaks, are able to impose costs on traitors, and can pretty successfully obfuscate when leaks happen in any case.

You sound ignorant mocking at Freemason conspiracies. They are a prime example of the successful conspiracy. It's also ludicrous to speak of radical ideologues as if they aren't being intentionally formed by interest groups (which previously operated discreetly but thanks to their success are now considered prestigious)

Where people go wrong is in attributing inordinate effects to the machinations of interest groups which in reality have sociological causes which are under nobody's control. I say the Freemasons were a successful conspiracy but they were also riding a wave of technological and economic revolution.

Even if there was massive mechanisms for damage control and preventing leaks, wouldn't there be some evidence available?
 

Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2019, 08:58:24 AM »
No, your example of some pissant internet drama doesn't prove that conspiracies don't exist.

Every interest group of every size and description is conspiring for group gain. Groups of sufficient influence understand basic procedures to minimize damaging leaks, are able to impose costs on traitors, and can pretty successfully obfuscate when leaks happen in any case.

You sound ignorant mocking at Freemason conspiracies. They are a prime example of the successful conspiracy. It's also ludicrous to speak of radical ideologues as if they aren't being intentionally formed by interest groups (which previously operated discreetly but thanks to their success are now considered prestigious)

Where people go wrong is in attributing inordinate effects to the machinations of interest groups which in reality have sociological causes which are under nobody's control. I say the Freemasons were a successful conspiracy but they were also riding a wave of technological and economic revolution.

Even if there was massive mechanisms for damage control and preventing leaks, wouldn't there be some evidence available?

Everyone and their dog apparently knew that McCarrick was busy sodomizing boys and yet I'm sure it was just a conspiracy theory among the N.O. crowd.

Do you doubt that Hillary Clinton is incredibly sick?  Imagine if she visited your town and you personally witnessed her hit the floor, presumably you would imagine this would be major news and you'd be hearing about it on CNN in a couple hours.  And yet you wouldn't.  And if you tried to tell anyone about it on Twitter, they'd call you a nut.  And besides, there are videos of her acting like one extremely sick person, and yet its still the "official" story that Sick Hillary is a conspiracy theory.

Just because something is true does not mean that its what people believe is the truth.  What's more, just because there is overwhelming and publicly available evidence that something is true, that still does not mean that the public en masse will believe it.

Jeffrey Epstein was busy raping little girls on his private island and inviting all the wealthy to rape along with him.  Do you think this was unknown?  It was obviously well known among the elites.  And yet a few years ago if you were to discuss this private island where the elites go to rape little girls, people would call you a nut.  And yet it was true the entire time.

The reality is that elites do not need to hide perfectly what they are doing.  Famous people can abuse hundreds of prostitutes and not be concerned that one will spill their secrets, because they know that no one will believe them.  Elites can even do things relatively publicly and be confident that it will not affect their
credibility.  Consider a prison guard who brutally beats a prisoner in front of the cell block.  He can do this likely without receiving any punishment because every prisoner is thinking the following:  I know that everyone else is seeing this and I know that everyone else is not going to say anything and that everyone else is allowing this to happen without putting a stop to it.  Furthermore, everyone else sees that I see it and that I am not going to say anything nor am I doing anything to stop it right now.  The truth of the situation is that the guard brutalized the prisoner.  But the "truth" as per the common belief among the people is that it was just another normal day, and if someone whispers about hearing through the grapevine of a beating in which everyone saw and yet nothing was done about it, we'd just call them liars.  For if something so stupendous were true, the guard clearly would have been fired!

You might find this relevant:  https://www.epsilontheory.com/when-does-the-story-break/  Especially the riddle of the green eyed islanders.

I've read many conspiracy theories.  Many are nuts.  The ones you listed are so obviously true I am quite baffled you doubt them.
 
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Offline The Harlequin King

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2019, 11:41:17 AM »
The mass media is what makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really easy to conceal . . .

That was true before the Internet. In terms of mis-information, I think the period between, say, 1940-1990 (when the entire news cycle was controlled by a few major media outlets) must have been the worst time to be alive. Now that everyone basically carries a camera in hand at all times, it must be an utter nightmare to try to keep a story straight. (Case in point: the Covington Catholic story.)

I don't think, for instance, that if the Internet existed during Vatican II, it would have ended anywhere near the same way it did.

Quote
I honestly don't know how a Christian can't be a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theory is basically a part of the Christian faith. All history is a battle between two conspiracies (angelic & demonic). Demons had all kinds of temples, cults, and states under their power in the ancient world.

I understand where you're coming from. Not sure I would call the "good side" a conspiracy, though. We seem to terribly inept at keeping any plots together, for one thing.

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Do you think they just gave up entirely after Christians kicked them off their thrones?

No. In fact, I'm not even saying there are no conspiracy theories. (A US civil court, for example, officially found that the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. was a government conspiracy.) But simply, I'm saying that the more elaborate a conspiracy is, the harder it is to keep up because the conspirators are still human. Taking an extreme example, there's a famous Jack Chick tract that claims the Vatican has a super-computer with a database of every single Protestant church member on earth, just waiting for the day when the CDF can unleash a new inquisition on the "true believers". As someone with experience working for the institutional Church, I can only dream the Church was 1% as efficient as it would take to pull off such an endeavor as that. I can't even identify all the Catholics in a 5-mile radius to send them appeal solicitations.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 11:43:03 AM by The Harlequin King »
 
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2019, 12:49:54 PM »
No. In fact, I'm not even saying there are no conspiracy theories. (A US civil court, for example, officially found that the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. was a government conspiracy.) But simply, I'm saying that the more elaborate a conspiracy is, the harder it is to keep up because the conspirators are still human. Taking an extreme example, there's a famous Jack Chick tract that claims the Vatican has a super-computer with a database of every single Protestant church member on earth, just waiting for the day when the CDF can unleash a new inquisition on the "true believers". As someone with experience working for the institutional Church, I can only dream the Church was 1% as efficient as it would take to pull off such an endeavor as that. I can't even identify all the Catholics in a 5-mile radius to send them appeal solicitations.

Wait...so is the Vatican NOT responsible for JFK's death, and Lincoln's death?





(it's disturbing people are so uneducated that they fall for these comics).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 12:57:47 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline TradGranny

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2019, 05:00:44 PM »
Quote
Again, besides Bezmenov and a quote from Khruschev, what Soviets have admitted to morally destabilizing countries in order to seize control?
Are you livign under a friggin rock with wool pulled over your eyes and your fingers stuck in your ears whilst humming "Nananananana" to yourself?

No, I don't think malicious ideologues trying to destroy Western Civilization = Freemasonry controlling all the banking institutions.

The enemy's greatest trick is making people think he doesn't exist.
C. S. Lewis
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila
 

Offline The Harlequin King

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Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2019, 05:03:45 PM »
One conspiracy theory that I wish were true is the one where the Order of Malta has black helicopters. I'm a Knight of the Order and, to be honest, would jump at the chance to get trained in how to fly a chopper. Alas, I've never gotten the invitation to go to covert ops flight school.
 
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