Author Topic: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories  (Read 1919 times)

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 492
  • Thanked: 126 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« on: January 29, 2019, 03:25:39 AM »
It's no secret that Traditional Catholics can be obsessed with Conspiracy Theories, or the idea of certain groups who do such and such.

In my life from Catholics, I've heard that there are secret societies or plots of

Freemasons
Theistic Satanists
Illuminati
Communists / Socialists
Jews / Zionists
Bankers / Elites

etc., who all seem to exist in terms of being the guy who is the "puppet master" of the world, whenever it's convenient to prove a narrative, as it turns out that all these groups have the same goals and the exact same methodology to achieve these goals.

So, my question to you is,

1. What is the proof of these Conspiracies existing?
2. Which of these groups are actually real in terms of plotting, and why?
3. Why do these groups have the goals of "corrupting the world" with no visible benefit, considering that they are already in power?
4. How did they get into power in the first place?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 03:27:43 AM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline Gardener

  • Drink the poison yourself.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Thanked: 5810 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 01:57:35 PM »
It's no secret that Traditional Catholics peoplecan be obsessed with Conspiracy Theories, or the idea of certain groups who do such and such.

In my life from Catholicspeople, I've heard that there are secret societies or plots of

Freemasons
Theistic Satanists
Illuminati
Communists / Socialists
Jews / Zionists
Bankers / Elites

etc., who all seem to exist in terms of being the guy who is the "puppet master" of the world, whenever it's convenient to prove a narrative, as it turns out that all these groups have the same goals and the exact same methodology to achieve these goals.

So, my question to you is,

1. What is the proof of these Conspiracies existing?
2. Which of these groups are actually real in terms of plotting, and why?
3. Why do these groups have the goals of "corrupting the world" with no visible benefit, considering that they are already in power?
4. How did they get into power in the first place?

Why are you trying to poison the well by pointing out Catholics?

These theories have supporters in all walks of life, Atheists, Catholics, Orthodox, Muslims, etc.

Freemasons - because they admit as such in their own writings and fraternal-nepotism?
Theistic Satanists - What makes you think they are necessarily different/separate from any other component you've mentioned, rather than a subset of any or multiple?
Illuminati - Typically accepted as an extension of the Freemasons and a sort of overarching catchphrase which encompasses several of the specified groups, no?
Communists/Socialists - because they admit as such in their own writings?
Jews/Zionists - Their worldview demands it
Bankers/Elites - Because they seek ways to combined the power of control and money, which is a mechanism of control.

1 - Historical records, self-admittance, etc.
2 - All, in some degree. Conspiracy is just 2 or more persons plotting for a particular end, typically seen as "evil" or at least its means as such to an end which of itself may or may not be evil.
3 - Corruption = chaos and chaos = opportunity for control; this can go in stages, just as the relationship between a psychopath and an innocent person can. Why does the psychopath need to "corrupt" the relationship between himself or herself with another, when they already have control in their domain? Because they want total control, which they don't have until they destroy the ego of the other. But even that would not be good enough, ultimately.
4 - The same way anyone gets into power: start small and work up.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
The following users thanked this post: clau clau, Kreuzritter, martin88nyc, Philip G.

Online The Harlequin King

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3425
  • Thanked: 1085 times
    • Modern Medievalism
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 04:05:31 PM »
Why does a 1-billionaire (who already has more money than he can really spend) work so hard to become a 2-billionaire? It's just human nature. By the same token, human nature also makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really hard to conceal, especially today in the age of mass media. I think the boring truth is that the world's most powerful people aren't part of any secret society or adhere to any particular creed. Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Carlos Slim are not likely to be Freemasons but have more real power as a group than all the Freemasons on earth combined.
 
The following users thanked this post: Pon de Replay, Lambda Phage

Offline Gardener

  • Drink the poison yourself.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Thanked: 5810 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 04:23:29 PM »
Why does a 1-billionaire (who already has more money than he can really spend) work so hard to become a 2-billionaire? It's just human nature. By the same token, human nature also makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really hard to conceal, especially today in the age of mass media. I think the boring truth is that the world's most powerful people aren't part of any secret society or adhere to any particular creed. Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Carlos Slim are not likely to be Freemasons but have more real power as a group than all the Freemasons on earth combined.

Ah, but could they be tools of any particular shadow group?

We know governments do things which are basically in the realm of conspiracy theories. We also know that there are people in governments who do things which seek to use that power to conduct their own side "operations". Is it not conceivable that such groups could, on the direction of a small, core component, place such people in positions to affect certain goals?

"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
The following users thanked this post: Xavier

Offline TradGranny

  • Mary Garden
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 771
  • Thanked: 502 times
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 04:46:23 PM »

In 1967, the CIA Created the Label "Conspiracy Theorists" ... to Attack Anyone Who Challenges the "Official" Narrative as part of its psychological warfare operations.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-23/1967-he-cia-created-phrase-conspiracy-theorists-and-ways-attack-anyone-who-challenge

see also
https://www.globalresearch.ca/conspiracy-theory-foundations-of-a-weaponized-term/5319708
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila
 
The following users thanked this post: Lynne, Maximilian, Xavier, martin88nyc

Offline Vetus Ordo

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2224
  • Thanked: 1721 times
  • Religion: The Way
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2019, 05:29:41 PM »
This is the thread where we unmask the Moon landing fakery?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 492
  • Thanked: 126 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 02:52:12 PM »
It's no secret that Traditional Catholics peoplecan be obsessed with Conspiracy Theories, or the idea of certain groups who do such and such.

In my life from Catholicspeople, I've heard that there are secret societies or plots of

Freemasons
Theistic Satanists
Illuminati
Communists / Socialists
Jews / Zionists
Bankers / Elites

etc., who all seem to exist in terms of being the guy who is the "puppet master" of the world, whenever it's convenient to prove a narrative, as it turns out that all these groups have the same goals and the exact same methodology to achieve these goals.

So, my question to you is,

1. What is the proof of these Conspiracies existing?
2. Which of these groups are actually real in terms of plotting, and why?
3. Why do these groups have the goals of "corrupting the world" with no visible benefit, considering that they are already in power?
4. How did they get into power in the first place?

Why are you trying to poison the well by pointing out Catholics?

These theories have supporters in all walks of life, Atheists, Catholics, Orthodox, Muslims, etc.

While I haven't seen any specific Atheist (not secular, rather explicitly Atheist) groups which believe in conspiracy theories,

Two reasons

1. This is a Catholic forum
2. Because of how factional the Roman Catholic Church has become, and due to the fact that it's usually the more conservative people who buy into Conspiracy Theories, and the fact that Traditional Roman Catholics want to find an explanatory solution to the current crisis, Traditional Roman Catholics are more drawn to conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories seem to me to have a greater salient even when comparing it with traditional Orthodox or Muslims.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 492
  • Thanked: 126 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2019, 03:15:15 PM »
Freemasons - because they admit as such in their own writings and fraternal-nepotism?
Where do the Freemasons admit in their own writings they have a plot of a subversion of moral foundations in society, and total domination of the world?

Quote
Theistic Satanists - What makes you think they are necessarily different/separate from any other component you've mentioned, rather than a subset of any or multiple?

Because aside from some "testimonies" from people which seem absolutely fraudulent to me.

(Let's take Zachary King. I don't find Zachary King's story credible at all; there are things that don't line up - like how by the age of 40, he dismantled 120 Baptist Churches [1. Why Baptists of all people? 2. So let's say that by the time that he was 13 and entered the cult, he started dismantling churches immediately until he left at age 40. So that means he would have to, at a minimum dismantle 4-5 churches every year, and the means of doing so would be participating in the church actively, trusting people, and getting to high enough rank to participate on the committee], how the Bohemian Grove is a Satanic sacrifice [even though there's video footage of it, and while it is definitely pagan, there's not one idea of Satan even present in it, and it's clear that the "sacrifice" is part of a symbolic show, by sacrificing "care" who speaks and talks in the ceremony], how he saw presidents future and past [although he won't give any future predictions], how he allegedly had multiple expensive cars and tons of money [no evidence of it, and he ends up working at a jewelry store when he converts], how there are millions of members throughout the world [yet the atheist Church of Satan doesn't actually have anywhere near that amount, nor do Wiccans], how he met with the Illuminati [what? evidence?], how he's committed around 260 ritual abortions [again, that's around 10 abortions a year at a minimum, and considering how it takes 9 months for the abortion to happen, that would require multiple women getting pregnant and a lot of a abortion doctors who would be okay with a Satanic sacrifice and cannibalism of a fetus?], etc.),

there is literally not one iota of evidence of such a conspiracy existing.

Plus, it's very obvious that the two entities are separate from each other.

These idiots:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/650397/Group-kill-friend-cult-ceremony-vampire

Are not part of the Illuminati or Freemasons, otherwise there wouldn't be a news story about it, nor would they be arrested.

Quote
Illuminati - Typically accepted as an extension of the Freemasons and a sort of overarching catchphrase which encompasses several of the specified groups, no?
According to conspiracy theorists? Yes. Do they actually exist? Any evidence?


Quote
Communists/Socialists - because they admit as such in their own writings?

Again, besides Bezmenov and a quote from Khruschev, what Soviets have admitted to morally destabilizing countries in order to seize control?


Quote
Jews/Zionists - Their worldview demands it

Nope - Ben Shapiro, being a Zionist Orthodox Jew, doesn't want to destabilize moral foundations to seize control of society. In fact, he's done more to save American society from corruption than any anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist has done.


Quote
Bankers/Elites - Because they seek ways to combined the power of control and money, which is a mechanism of control.

Okay...
 

Offline Gardener

  • Drink the poison yourself.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Thanked: 5810 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2019, 03:28:14 PM »
You've shifted terms and/or introduced more specific definitions/understandings, and have now sought to set up specific instances to disprove a broad subject.

In other words, you've moved the goal posts.

Pick a yard line so I know if I want to play.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 492
  • Thanked: 126 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2019, 03:28:49 PM »
This is the thread where we unmask the Moon landing fakery?

Out of all the conspiracy theorists, this is the one that sounds the least credible, for the simple fact that we actually have rocks from the moon that have been dated older than any rock on Earth.

https://www.rt.com/news/446179-moon-landing-russian-scientist/

Now, I personally do believe in a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK - there is so much circumstantial evidence which contradicts the Warren Report that undoubtedly there was a conspiracy. However, I don't see how one could say the moon landing was faked.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 492
  • Thanked: 126 times
  • Saint Thomas the Apostle, pray for me, a sinner!
  • Religion: I have no idea.
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2019, 03:30:36 PM »
You've shifted terms and/or introduced more specific definitions/understandings, and have now sought to set up specific instances to disprove a broad subject.

In other words, you've moved the goal posts.

Pick a yard line so I know if I want to play.

What? I'm merely responding to what you posted to what I posted.

But okay. For now, let's focus on the 6 groups which all allegedly have the same goals.
 

Offline Gardener

  • Drink the poison yourself.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Thanked: 5810 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 03:32:51 PM »
You've shifted terms and/or introduced more specific definitions/understandings, and have now sought to set up specific instances to disprove a broad subject.

In other words, you've moved the goal posts.

Pick a yard line so I know if I want to play.

What? I'm merely responding to what you posted to what I posted.

But okay. For now, let's focus on the 6 groups which all allegedly have the same goals.

Fine. Flesh out the definitions you are using of those groups. For example, you started with Socialists/Communists and then shifted into KGB/Russian Soviet examples as a counter. But that's not the whole of Communism.

So set your yard line.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 

Offline John Lamb

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1492
  • Thanked: 1637 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 04:01:29 PM »
By the same token, human nature also makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really hard to conceal, especially today in the age of mass media.

The mass media is what makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really easy to conceal . . .

Quote
I think the boring truth is that the world's most powerful people aren't part of any secret society or adhere to any particular creed.

The world's most powerful people are the demons, who are certainly in conspiracy; and to think that men in high places aren't wittingly or unwittingly in league with the demons shows real ignorance of human nature.

I honestly don't know how a Christian can't be a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theory is basically a part of the Christian faith. All history is a battle between two conspiracies (angelic & demonic). Demons had all kinds of temples, cults, and states under their power in the ancient world. Do you think they just gave up entirely after Christians kicked them off their thrones?
As many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. (John 1:12)
 
The following users thanked this post: Graham, mikemac, TradGranny, Kreuzritter, martin88nyc

Offline Kreuzritter

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1118
  • Thanked: 779 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2019, 04:33:53 PM »
Why does a 1-billionaire (who already has more money than he can really spend) work so hard to become a 2-billionaire? It's just human nature. By the same token, human nature also makes ultra-elaborate conspiracies really hard to conceal, especially today in the age of mass media. I think the boring truth is that the world's most powerful people aren't part of any secret society or adhere to any particular creed. Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Carlos Slim are not likely to be Freemasons but have more real power as a group than all the Freemasons on earth combined.

Ummm ... don't you see what you did there?

Yes, conspiracies are hard to conceal in this day and age, which is why they've all been exposed. They are, however, very easy to keep going despite exposure when the reaction fo Joe Public to beign confronted with one is," Huhuh, if that were true, everyone would know about it, huhuh, quod erat demonstandum".


 
The following users thanked this post: martin88nyc

Offline Kreuzritter

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1118
  • Thanked: 779 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: The Legitimacy of Conspiracy Theories
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2019, 04:43:15 PM »
Quote
Again, besides Bezmenov and a quote from Khruschev, what Soviets have admitted to morally destabilizing countries in order to seize control?

How did you jump from "Communists / Socialists" to Soviets?

No, Gramsci's long march through the institutions, Lukács's invention of sex education, the Frankfurt School, and the stated GOAL of half-a-century of Neomarxist thinkers and activists, who now dominate the humanities and social sciences, most recently manifest in the form of "intersectionality", to overturn the foundations of Western civilisation by dismantling "Christian", "bourgeois", "capitalist" power structures, which si everything from religion to family to sexual norms to morals to gender.

Are you livign under a friggin rock with wool pulled over your eyes and your fingers stuck in your ears whilst humming "Nananananana" to yourself?
 
The following users thanked this post: Graham, clau clau, TradGranny