Author Topic: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?  (Read 366 times)

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« on: January 16, 2019, 04:43:55 PM »
While I think that the Tridentine Mass, in comparison to the Novus Ordo Mass, is supreme overall, and many hymns - maybe even a majority - are cringe-inducing (Sorry, "Lord of the Dance," I don't find your music fitting for Mass), I don't think that it's the case that everything bad has come from the Novus Ordo, and that all the hymns that have been subsequently composed for the Novus Ordo are bad.

Here's a clip, for example, of something that I find beautiful. It's John Paul II in New York, Central Park, performing Mass in 1995 - this is the Alleluia being sung.

The Hymn used is the "Celtic Alleluia," composed by Irish Jesuits in the 80s.

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/yK5c3fa4815f6b8
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 04:47:09 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 07:27:30 PM »

I don't think that it's the case that everything bad has come from the Novus Ordo, and that all the hymns that have been subsequently composed for the Novus Ordo are bad.

I do. Universally.


Here's a clip, for example, of something that I find beautiful. It's John Paul II in New York, Central Park, performing Mass in 1995 - this is the Alleluia being sung.

Beautiful, no.
Appropriate for Mass, no.


The Hymn used is the "Celtic Alleluia," composed by Irish Jesuits in the 80s.

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/yK5c3fa4815f6b8

This song is certainly above average compared to other N.O. hymns. That's only because it's based on a traditional Irish tune.
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 07:33:58 PM »
theReturnofLive - Beautiful is a subjective term, sacred is not.  That song is not sacred.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 07:36:32 PM by Philip G. »
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 10:03:31 PM »
This song is certainly above average compared to other N.O. hymns. That's only because it's based on a traditional Irish tune.

Which tune? It certainly sounds Irish - but which tune?

I know that the Novus Ordo hymns generally steal from classical music and interpolate it into the Mass - "Joyful Joyful we adore thee" etc.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 10:15:07 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 10:10:35 PM »
theReturnofLive - Beautiful is a subjective term, sacred is not.  That song is not sacred.

I concord.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 10:33:29 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 01:38:48 AM »
I think the OP asks a fair question, simply because there is a small subset of modern Christian music (such as certain complex, 4-part hymns outside of the polyphonic era) that is, on its own, decent music from the point of view of us musicians (i.e., within accepted musical standards).  It could be legitimately called "sacred music," just as J.S. Bach, Handel, Mozart, and many others wrote moving, soul-uplifting music in the genre that is universally considered sacred music.

That is not the same thing as music typically suitable for the TLM, of course -- not only because it is not Gregorian chant or classical polyphony, but also because it would typically call for instruments forbidden at a TLM, such as full or partial orchestra.

Nevertheless, the vast majority of N.O. Masses do not concern themselves with quality sacred music.  Instead, one hears Protestant hymns (literally), often with unorthodox lyrics, even more often with insipid or offensive lyrics -- such as Gather Us In, the Proud and the Haughty, which is practically blasphemous as a product of keystrokes.  Dan Schutte and Marty Haugen are not even very good composers.  Schutte writes in a genre that is called "worship songs" or "songs of praise" (both Protestant terms), and Haugen, a Lutheran, writes music for Lutheran worship services.

These men write for the lowest common denominators -- the most theologically ignorant and the least musically capable.

In some, less "contemporary" N.O. parishes, hymns are sometimes chosen from the Adoremus Hymnal, which is at least fairly Catholic, even though so many of those hymns are led by women taking over the sanctuary.  (Cringe.)
 

Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2019, 05:11:41 PM »
There are no Novus Ordo hymns that are bad.
 

Offline John Lamb

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2019, 05:29:29 PM »
There are no Novus Ordo hymns that are bad.

Now we KNOW you're a troll.
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Offline John Lamb

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2019, 05:35:28 PM »
theReturnofLive - Beautiful is a subjective term, sacred is not.  That song is not sacred.

The instruments make it sound more secular and the cantor having an operatic style doesn't help. I've heard the "celtic alleluia" sung more plainly and though it's quite jolly I think it's dignified enough as sacred music (the Kyrie for the Missa de Angelis is fairly jolly as well). Plenty of beautiful Mass settings (e.g. Mozart) are more secular than sacred in how they're written. Like the Gloria in Bach's B minor Mass which sounds quite secular music to me:

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Offline John Lamb

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2019, 05:41:16 PM »
The most sober and dignified rendering of the celtic alleluia I could find:


I think this is fairly close to the standards of sacred music, though it's not as profound as most Gregorian or Byzantine chant.
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Offline Josephine87

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 06:46:57 PM »
Can someone explain why the woman singing at the microphone during the Novus Ordo uses the operatic style? They always sound like Miss Piggy to me.
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Offline Green

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 09:41:32 PM »
My main gripe with Novus Ordo is often the music selection, who chooses it anyway?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:48:11 PM by Green »
 

Offline Clare

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2019, 04:55:20 AM »
I must confess to not disliking some Taizé chants. I was in a NO folk group in my youth, and Taizé chants were my first exposure to Latin.
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Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2019, 03:11:50 PM »
There are no Novus Ordo hymns that are bad.

Now we KNOW you're a troll.
Just because I don't believe that Novus Ordo hymns are not fine does not denote that I am a troll. The Vatican has no problem with the hymns utilized in the Novus Ordo Mass.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 04:45:35 PM by Howard Kopsho »
 

Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Are ALL the Novus Ordo Hymns THAT Bad?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 10:04:08 PM »