Author Topic: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass  (Read 880 times)

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« on: January 13, 2019, 10:57:19 PM »
The Cross Pollination that I think that Pope Benedict wanted with the encouragement of the Latin Mass.

 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 09:24:31 AM »
That's nice. At that particular parish, it'll last as long as long as that particular priest remains there...

Still contains all the flaws of the N.O. Mass. It's interesting that he does the genuflection right after he says the words for the consecrating of the bread and then again for the wine. So he's changing the rubrics...
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline VeraeFidei

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 09:43:41 PM »
So a woman in the Sanctuary (uncovered, mind you) reading prayer intentions during Mass is "traditional?" So much for Saint Paul...
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 10:22:10 PM »
A Novus Ordo mass CAN'T be traditional no matter what language it is in; it is NOVUS. Only some of the externals can be traditional.

I went to a Latin Novus Ordo Mass only once in my life - at my Catholic/Novus Ordo College graduation.  My parents learned about the TLM when I was about 12, and a  Novus Ordo Mass (even in Latin) was only a one time exception for me after that.  Since then the only Novus Ordo Mass I go to is at weddings or funerals (where I don't participate).

The Mass at my graduation was beautiful and reverent (the only women were in the pews or at the Communion rail, where we all knelt and received on the tongue).  But it didn't express the truth of "The Mass of the Ages".'

We need to remember that with regard to the "TLM", the emphasis needs to be on the "T".  It would have been a pity to say the Old Mass in English (the vernacular), but it is not the language that is the main problem. But Latin does preserve the truth and the reverence better than English can.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:34:03 PM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2019, 03:11:32 AM »
Non Nobis - I think the best thing that TLMers can hope for is the old mass in a sacerdotal vernacular.  I would prefer that clearly before ever preferring the NO in Latin.  In fact, I can never prefer the Latin NO as a final outcome.  I don't think that this crisis resolves itself without a compromise hybridization of liturgy.  I would be a believer in all of the traditional arguments for latin and the western liturgy were it not for this crisis(found within tradition as well) and the reality that is eastern Christianity(catholic or not).  I personally like the idea of one rite many languages.  Latin could still be very useful in romance language territory.  But, a sober assessment reveals that western trads are not the only players.  So, learn to participate.  You wanted empire; now you got it. 

For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Green

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2019, 10:22:15 PM »
Really this is the way to go, even if its in the vernacular, its unrealistic to expect to return entirely to Tridentine Rite or even Latin en masse
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 10:53:45 PM by Green »
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 07:23:36 AM »
I continue to thank God for the SSPX.
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Sempronius

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 04:11:58 PM »
Many elements from the baroque era need to go. Not that they are unsuitable for mass but because they dont reflect our society any more.

For example: the way we bulld our altars, its sometimes over the top. Altar cards: they dont need to be on the altar.

Singing Kyrie eleison and Christe eleison nine times could be (there are different interpretations) from the baroque music:

”Ternary form, sometimes called song form,[1] is a three-part musical form consisting of an opening section (A), a following section (B) and then a repetition of the first section (A). It is usually schematized as A–B–A.”


From wikipedia.
 

Offline St. Columba

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 05:40:27 PM »
Clip from a Novus Ordo Mass at the Toronto Oratory:


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Offline Daniel

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 07:44:09 PM »
Singing Kyrie eleison and Christe eleison nine times could be (there are different interpretations) from the baroque music:

”Ternary form, sometimes called song form,[1] is a three-part musical form consisting of an opening section (A), a following section (B) and then a repetition of the first section (A). It is usually schematized as A–B–A.”


From wikipedia.
Those "different interpretations" predate the Baroque period, so I doubt there's any connection there (apart from maybe the music itself).
 

Offline Stefano

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 10:17:11 AM »
Clip from a Novus Ordo Mass at the Toronto Oratory:


This was my home parish before. They only started doing the NOM there ad orientem earlier this year. They are the only parish in all of Ontario that do the "ordinary form" according to sacrosanctum concilium. Perhaps the onlly one in Canada.
 
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2019, 10:10:23 AM »
That's nice. At that particular parish, it'll last as long as long as that particular priest remains there...

Still contains all the flaws of the N.O. Mass. It's interesting that he does the genuflection right after he says the words for the consecrating of the bread and then again for the wine. So he's changing the rubrics...

The Oratarians publicly, and one or two other other Orders for their conventual N.O. Mass have used a traditional ROTR interpretation, even before Benedict, but unless one of those Orders is nearby, or the rare happenstance of a Conciliar priest who wants a measure of dignity without going full or semi-trad, it's indeed an exception.
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2019, 01:26:39 PM »
Really this is the way to go, even if its in the vernacular, its unrealistic to expect to return entirely to Tridentine Rite or even Latin en masse
It wasnt realistic in 1880 that the entire Faith would be changed within 100 years, and yet....


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Offline St. Columba

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2019, 04:29:09 PM »
Clip from a Novus Ordo Mass at the Toronto Oratory:


This was my home parish before. They only started doing the NOM there ad orientem earlier this year. They are the only parish in all of Ontario that do the "ordinary form" according to sacrosanctum concilium. Perhaps the onlly one in Canada.

Stefano, where do you live?  I am in Sudbury, Ontario.
People don't have ideas...ideas have people.  - Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung
 

Offline St. Columba

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Re: Traditional Novus Ordo Mass
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2019, 04:37:10 PM »
Another traditional Novus Ordo...

People don't have ideas...ideas have people.  - Jordan Peterson quoting Carl Jung