Author Topic: Tattoos  (Read 735 times)

Offline clau clau

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 05:14:40 AM »
I hate tattoos (even more than Rap music which I hate with a passion).  My daughter has one and I hate it.  It is on her foot.  I cannot even see it but I still hate it.

I try to get my other daughters to get Henna tattoos (since they wear off).

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 05:34:18 AM »
I can't remember all the details I've read on this subject, but the sin committed is the sin of pride through vanity. By getting tattoos, you're inordinately decorating(?) yourself, you show your body off by having certain parts of your body stand out, proudly putting yourself on display.

Excessive tattooing is actually imitating (the sincerest form of flattery) the "ignorant natives" who worship false gods, who pierce, cut and paint themselves as part of their pagan (demonic) rituals. The difference is, modern tattoos leave a permanent character on the body, whereas the ignorant natives' markings are only temporary.   



Right on, Stubb. Traditionally in American society, tattoos have been viewed as low class, crass, and downright shitty. My pasty white skin staying that way.


I'm with you on that, I never had any inkling of getting a tattoo either.

Those who get tattoos, I mean particularly excessive tattoos, have something wrong with their brain, their thinking is way off. For example; it used to be that when a guy woke up from a drunk is when he found he had a tattoo. Also, reading Ches' post shows the same thing. There is something wrong with the thinking of those people who cut themselves, so tattooing over those cuts is a no brainer (pun not intended). Same for piercings in places where there should be no piercings, also unnatural and florescent hair coloring. It's all part of an immoral, humanistic and pagan society where ugliness is beauty, which we see literally everywhere.

That excessive tattooing on so many people demonstrates how widespread the Godless and ill thinking is nowadays. People have no God, they think they have no one to answer to for permanently defacing themselves like the pagans . It used to be the only place you might find people like that is at the freak show in carnivals, now they are all over in society.

Here's a 3 minute Youtube where the guy totally nails the decline of morality, hence the change in thinking away from God, which leads into thinking perversity as being normal. The only thing he is missing, is he does not tie it all together with the revolution of V2.

     

     
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 05:35:59 AM by Stubborn »
Even after a long life of sin, if the Christian receives the Sacrament of the dying with the appropriate dispositions, he will go straight to heaven without having to go to purgatory. - Fr. M. Philipon; This sacrament prepares man for glory immediately, since it is given to those who are departing from this life. - St. Thomas Aquinas; It washes away the sins that remain to be atoned, and the vestiges of sin; it comforts and strengthens the soul of the sick person, arousing in him a great trust and confidence in the divine mercy. Thus strengthened, he bears the hardships and struggles of his illness more easily and resists the temptation of the devil and the heel of the deceiver more readily; and if it be advantageous to the welfare of his soul, he sometimes regains his bodily health. - Council of Trent
 
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Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 07:02:52 AM »
No one has more tattoos than those in gangs and prison.  Conversely, no one has fewer tattoos than the saints.  That's all the guidance I need.

Will the glorified body retain the tattoo or will purgatory burn that off?

I am sorry to hear that you have an upcoming scar (presumably from surgery, unless you are planning to be in a knife fight).  If it is somewhere like on a forearm which is very noticeable then maybe consider something like an armband, or if the weather permits, mainly rely on long sleeves.
 
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Online John Lamb

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2019, 08:25:15 AM »
Amongst Traditionalist crowds tattoos are typically seen as against the 5th commandment (per Fr. Ripperger). Iím not convinced of that as ear piercing should be too if following the same logic, but itís never mentioned.

The OT prohibition (Leviticus 19) is specifically in the context of pagan ancestor worship, not a general prohibition (though later seen as such through halachic teaching).

As a person with two sleeves, a rib cage tat (meat tag), and calf piece, Iíd advise against any tattoo regardless of the reason.

Thanks Gardener....but why would you advise against regardless of the reason?

Also, if trads, and Fr Ripperger specifically, are against  tattoos, are they because the Magisterium weighed in on the issue at some point, or are they just theorizing?

Fr. Ripperger is being misrepresented here. He actually says that cosmetic surgery is fine if it's to restore the original integrity of nature, i.e. if someone has some kind of bodily deformity or disfigurement, then surgery to correct it is totally fine and natural. I don't see any problem with getting a tattoo in order to cover a scar. It might not be the most perfect or saintly action, but it's better to be humble and act according to your spiritual level than to pretend to be a saint. You can make up for any vanity involved by getting a tattoo which is religiously themed or symbolic in some way. I honestly don't think Our Lord would mind this at all.

St. Sebastian was a soldier in the Roman army, so he probably had a tattoo. I think it's Tertullian who compares the "tattoo" of baptism through which we enter Christ's army to the tattoo of Roman soldiers.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 08:35:26 AM by John Lamb »
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Online John Lamb

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2019, 08:26:49 AM »
Not OP (sorry OP, jumping in here) but what do you guys think about a Catholic tattoo to cover up an old occult tattoo until I can afford to have it removed? Or would it just be better to wait to have the laser removal and leave as-is for now?

Either a Catholic cover up or removal would be fine. I like the idea of a Catholic cover up because that's what our Catholic forefathers tended to do with pagan temples and monuments: consecrate them to Catholicism.

Like this one:

« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 08:29:58 AM by John Lamb »
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 10:53:01 AM »
Amongst Traditionalist crowds tattoos are typically seen as against the 5th commandment (per Fr. Ripperger). Iím not convinced of that as ear piercing should be too if following the same logic, but itís never mentioned.

The OT prohibition (Leviticus 19) is specifically in the context of pagan ancestor worship, not a general prohibition (though later seen as such through halachic teaching).

As a person with two sleeves, a rib cage tat (meat tag), and calf piece, Iíd advise against any tattoo regardless of the reason.

Thanks Gardener....but why would you advise against regardless of the reason?

Also, if trads, and Fr Ripperger specifically, are against  tattoos, are they because the Magisterium weighed in on the issue at some point, or are they just theorizing?

Fr. Ripperger is being misrepresented here. He actually says that cosmetic surgery is fine if it's to restore the original integrity of nature, i.e. if someone has some kind of bodily deformity or disfigurement, then surgery to correct it is totally fine and natural. I don't see any problem with getting a tattoo in order to cover a scar. It might not be the most perfect or saintly action, but it's better to be humble and act according to your spiritual level than to pretend to be a saint. You can make up for any vanity involved by getting a tattoo which is religiously themed or symbolic in some way. I honestly don't think Our Lord would mind this at all.

St. Sebastian was a soldier in the Roman army, so he probably had a tattoo. I think it's Tertullian who compares the "tattoo" of baptism through which we enter Christ's army to the tattoo of Roman soldiers.

How did I misrepresent Fr. Ripperger? I simply repeated what he said: Tattoos are against the 5th commandment. I even stated I didnít quite buy it since the same logic should apply to any body mods, including ear piercing, but doesnít. Why? I donít know other than the mere broad acceptance of it, but that doesnít make something of itself right.

Personally speaking, as one who got a lot of tattoos between 17-22 (having gotten none after that), I recommend against them.

FWIW, a tattoo cannot ďcoverĒ a scar. The scar will be visible beneath the tattoo since it doesnít alter the superficial skin appearance.

I completely concur with those who state it represents something wrong in a personís thinking. Looking back, Iíd say that in some sense itís a much more minor variant of the same mental illness (at least underlying factors) that give us so-called transsexuals, extreme body modification freaks like ďEnigmaĒ and ďLizard ManĒ, and even goes into things like dying oneís hair (whether a natural color or not).

Itís often represented as an external manifestation of oneís own ďinternal selfĒ. It is, but itís actually a recursive attempt to imprint upon oneís own psyche via external means. In other words, an attempt to change who we are. In my case, it was the desire to more fully express my idolatry of a punk group called MxPx (and by proxy those they obviously idolized) and to somehow be ďcoolĒ. Coupled with that, I honestly had no belief Iíd live long and fully expected, even hoped, to die in combat.

As for class factors, thatís merely a social construct. Class is much more fluid than mere finances, and itís certainly not merely as simple as a binary or tertiary designation as determined by material realities (despite the attempts of many to convince themselves otherwise).

In reality, there are only two classes of people: those going to heaven and those going to hell.

The question, in anything, is how proposition X is pushing one, or indicating, their direction in one way or the other.

Iíd be quite interested to see the argument stating tattoos are a means of sanctification.


« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 10:54:57 AM by Gardener »
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Online John Lamb

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 11:11:28 AM »
Amongst Traditionalist crowds tattoos are typically seen as against the 5th commandment (per Fr. Ripperger). Iím not convinced of that as ear piercing should be too if following the same logic, but itís never mentioned.

The OT prohibition (Leviticus 19) is specifically in the context of pagan ancestor worship, not a general prohibition (though later seen as such through halachic teaching).

As a person with two sleeves, a rib cage tat (meat tag), and calf piece, Iíd advise against any tattoo regardless of the reason.

Thanks Gardener....but why would you advise against regardless of the reason?

Also, if trads, and Fr Ripperger specifically, are against  tattoos, are they because the Magisterium weighed in on the issue at some point, or are they just theorizing?

Fr. Ripperger is being misrepresented here. He actually says that cosmetic surgery is fine if it's to restore the original integrity of nature, i.e. if someone has some kind of bodily deformity or disfigurement, then surgery to correct it is totally fine and natural. I don't see any problem with getting a tattoo in order to cover a scar. It might not be the most perfect or saintly action, but it's better to be humble and act according to your spiritual level than to pretend to be a saint. You can make up for any vanity involved by getting a tattoo which is religiously themed or symbolic in some way. I honestly don't think Our Lord would mind this at all.

St. Sebastian was a soldier in the Roman army, so he probably had a tattoo. I think it's Tertullian who compares the "tattoo" of baptism through which we enter Christ's army to the tattoo of Roman soldiers.

How did I misrepresent Fr. Ripperger? I simply repeated what he said: Tattoos are against the 5th commandment. I even stated I didnít quite buy it since the same logic should apply to any body mods, including ear piercing, but doesnít. Why? I donít know other than the mere broad acceptance of it, but that doesnít make something of itself right.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were intentionally misrepresenting him or anything, just that he has more to say (from what I recall) than that tattoos are bad. If we're going to condemn tattoos outright, we might as well condemn make-up, hairstyles, and anything but the plainest clothes while we're at it. Nice hats and jewellery ought to be the first things gotten rid of. If you dress better than a Franciscan then you're going beyond nature and necessity, and you're indulging yourself to some extent. Nevertheless, God permits such indulgence in proportion to our weakness, because He's a Father not a tyrant. Of course, tattoos are more serious than make-up, hairstyles, and nice clothes, because they permanently mark the body whereas the latter only adorn it temporarily; but the gravity of the matter is compensated for in a grave situation, and if someone wants to cover up a disfigurement in some way by means of a tattoo I think that's sufficiently grave.
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Offline St. Columba

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2019, 06:32:21 PM »
Thanks everyone for the input.

Can anyone explain why Fr Ripperger would say tattoos are contrary the divine injunction to not kill?  I think this would be helpful.  Is there a video clip of his someone could point me to?  Thanks.
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2019, 07:26:27 PM »
Because itís unnecessarily destructive to the body. Many things which arenít murder per se fall under the fifth commandment.
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Offline St. Columba

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2019, 08:31:42 PM »
How is it destructive to the body?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 08:42:03 PM by St. Columba »
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2019, 09:38:03 PM »
Because itís unnecessarily destructive to the body. Many things which arenít murder per se fall under the fifth commandment.

But couldn't we also hypothetically extend that logic to haircuts, shaving one's beard, and shaving one's arms and legs - as it unnecessarily destroys what was designed by God?

In fact, the Sikhs actually don't shave their hair or cut their hair at all - both men and women - which is why they wear turbans, because they believe that it infringes upon the design of the creation of God, for the purposes of attachment to earthly things.

Plus, what say you to the Copts, who were forced to get tattoos under Islamic occupation as a sign of inferior social standing, and now culturally tattoo the cross on their wrist as a sign of Christian solidarity?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 09:40:03 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2019, 10:18:15 PM »
Haircuts and such donít permanently alter anything. Iím all for more beards, though. ;)

The Copts are an exception which, if anything, proves the rule. I find their practice laudable given the threats they face. Much like a circumcised male in WW2 Europe couldnít deny being a Jew (because the modern method of circumcision is actually extreme compared to what God commanded, and cannot be stretched out), so the Copt with a cross tattoo (generally on the web of the hand, no?) can not deny he is a Christian.
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Offline St. Columba

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2019, 10:25:53 AM »
Ahh, you beat me to the circumcision angle Gardener...I was just thinking of that before I read your post!

If the 5th commandment encapsulates the natural law, and if the prohibition against tattoos truly falls under that law, does this not imply that tattoos, if Fr Ripperger is correct, are also against the natural law, since, presumably, it involves a permanent alteration of the body?

But this can't be, since God approved of circumcision at one point, and he cannot go against natural law.

Finally, let us recall that we Catholics do use temporary body marks, like the ones we receive on Ash Wednesday.  And so these (temporary) marks cannot possibly be evil in and of themselves.
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2019, 11:05:17 AM »
Johann Von Goethe:

ĒPainting and tattooing of the body is a return to animalism.Ē

Animals paint themselves?
 

Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2019, 11:06:46 AM »
I can't remember all the details I've read on this subject, but the sin committed is the sin of pride through vanity. By getting tattoos, you're inordinately decorating(?) yourself, you show your body off by having certain parts of your body stand out, proudly putting yourself on display.

That makes more sense than the 5th Commandment argument, but taken as a  rule it sounds like Amero-Catholic Puritanism. It's the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from a parish where the women look dress Mennonites and don't wear makeup because of Azazel or something  - or from cloistered ascetic extremists who are afraid of committing the sin of gluttony if they don't keep anything but stale bread and water in the larder.